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+--- Thread: 1 and 2 short shift (/showthread.php?tid=1344)
1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 05-06-2010
What needs to be done to make the transmission not shift so early in 1st and 2nd? At WOT 3rd will revv to the full 4600rpm before shifting, but 1st shifts out at 3400rpm and 2nd shifts out at 3900rpm. The bowden cable is tight at WOT.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - aaa - 05-06-2010
Kickdown switch?
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - garage - 05-06-2010
Ive been wondering the same thing.
I can deal with 2nd being so short if i have to, but itd be nice to have 1st longer.
Are you talking about auto or stick?
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - willbhere4u - 05-07-2010
bowden cable = A.T.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - garage - 05-07-2010
Thanks willbe.
Sorry bout that forced
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Syncro_G - 05-10-2010
(05-06-2010, 05:37 PM)aaa Kickdown switch?
If the switch was broken, 1 and 2 would shift up early but I would think that 3rd would too.
However, it's really easy to disconnect the switch and do a sprint to see what's different and rule that out.
AT's really aren't my forte but dovyhey have separate solenoids for the different gears?
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 05-11-2010
So if the solenoid was not getting power it would shift early? I though the switch was just to force a 4-3 shift.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - aaa - 05-11-2010
I've seen a stuck one affect the 1 and 2 shifts. It was pretty extreme though, like putting the shifter in L.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - willbhere4u - 05-11-2010
Dose it have a vacuum modulator still? On my old one when I hooked up straight vacuum increasing line pressure it would shift later and with out it hook up it shifted early and slipped under full power?
You can also adjust the reverse bands externally on the some transmissions! my 79 300sd would not even go backwards in reverse on flat ground it would just slip and barley move! I tightened the adjustment and it worked great for a long time!
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Nick - 05-14-2010
forced-
i've hooked a toggle switch up to my kickdown switch and put it up where the rear light switch was. this way i can force a downshift at partial throttle.
from my experience the kickdown switch will force a downshift from any gear as long as the engine RPM is within a permissible range to prevent over-revving.
the kickdown can drop into 1st if you're in 2nd, drop to 2nd if you're in 3rd, and so on.
i've also noticed that if i flip the toggle switch at partial throttle, say to drop from 4th to 3rd going around a tight corner at around 45mph, it will drop to 3rd at partial throttle. BUT, if i punch the gas after it shifts to 3rd, it will drop to 2nd because of the bowden input on top of the kickdown activation. so a nice double kickdown effect can be achieved.
sorry this is such a lengthy post about the kickdown, i don't have a clue how to spread the 1-2 shift.. but that would be sooooooo nice.
the only thing i can thing would be to re-design the pivot that the bowden attaches to at the VC, and make a "cam" type pivot that would pull the bowden tight faster in the low throttle range, and pull it out slower as you get into the higher throttle range.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 05-14-2010
I like the manual switch suggestion. Last time I was under there I found the wire was very brittle, it might have finally broke entirely. Oh well, just another thing to look for in the junk yard this weekend!
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - GREASY_BEAST - 05-14-2010
I was having trouble with the transmission shifting too early, flaring, etc etc and installed all the springs in this kit. It really did make a difference in how the car drives. It doesn't downshift without some power on now, though, probably due to the Bowden Cable not interacting in the way the trans was designed for.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Nick - 05-14-2010
it's a 5 minute mod that's well worth it. i just hate having to add all that fuel flooring it just to get a little more torque around a corner. i wish the 722 would do a partial throttle downshift.
and i have a working kickdown switch and can pull all the wiring paraphernalia from my parts 240 for you if you'd like.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Syncro_G - 05-15-2010
(05-14-2010, 05:51 AM)ForcedInduction I like the manual switch suggestion. Last time I was under there I found the wire was very brittle, it might have finally broke entirely. Oh well, just another thing to look for in the junk yard this weekend!
The G-Wagen shifter has 4-3-2-1 positions that are basically D-S-L+microswitch
this way you can force the tranny into whichever gear you want without having to mash the pedal. It's meant for crawling but I think some of the early SD's had it.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Nick - 05-15-2010
Sure wish the coupe had that.. W123 diesels just weren't made to be on back roads all day. i mean the difference between 3 and 4 is too big to downshift half the time, and body roll sucks when you try to take the corner a little quick to avoid downshifting. these things must have been tested in production on the highway more than not.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Syncro_G - 05-16-2010
(05-15-2010, 11:33 PM)Nick Sure wish the coupe had that.. W123 diesels just weren't made to be on back roads all day. i mean the difference between 3 and 4 is too big to downshift half the time, and body roll sucks when you try to take the corner a little quick to avoid downshifting. these things must have been tested in production on the highway more than not.
It would be a simple mod if you had the shifter for it. You would parallel-splice it into the wire pair from the transmission to the kick down switch under the gas pedal.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 06-14-2010
(05-06-2010, 05:37 PM)aaa Kickdown switch?
While changing out the speedo cable I found the plug in the solenoid had wiggled just barely out of contact. I plugged it back in and ziptied the wire to where it can't come loose again.
Acceleration is definitely better. I'll have to make another video and see how much time was cut off from the extra few hundred RPM in 1st and 2nd.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 06-14-2010
Second 0-60 run, now with the kickdown solenoid working.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiTTEj-5Epk
1st and 2nd shift at the same time as before, 20mph and 33mph.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 06-15-2010
My kick down switch works fine but if its not practically floored, mine shifts 1-3-4th. It pretty much skips 2nd gear all together. I have resorted to manually shifting the bitch till I get up to speed. That's with the bowden cable adjusted all the way out... actually it will shift into 4th, then down to 3rd for a couple seconds then back to 4th; Its ridiculous!
I really like the manual kick down idea! I think I'll wire that into the window lock button or something. I have also found that the switch will downshift any gear as Nick said. It doesn't help that after I got rear ended my car slams gears up shifting and downshifting and i haven't figured out what changed yet. I'm not really sure if I have the vacuum lines right yet, someone had them all screwed up when I bought the car. the trans would take a good 15-20 seconds to even go into reverse, but after i changed some vac lines that fixed itself.
Hey do any of you guys have a good pic of the vacuum lines as they com off the main supply line without EGR and the crap on top of the valve cover?
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-10-2010
I finally did the manual switch project with a neat on-off-momentary switch from an Orion bus. Definitely worth the effort for situations where full throttle would be overkill but 4th is too tall.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-11-2010
No pics Forced?
I did the mod the day after also. It's not pretty but it works great. I'll put a pic up later today or tomorrow.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-11-2010
There isn't really much to picture. All the mod does is add a switch that bridges the two circuits, same as the kickdown switch. Mount a switch, run a pair of wires and splice into the harness. Or wire the switch to a 12V source and just splice into the green wire.
I do need to get a different switch plate though, some of the enamel flaked off while drilling the switch holes (the second one being for water injection, only waiting on nozzles to arrive before installing everything).
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-11-2010
Well I'll post one of my jerry rig in a couple hours to show ya how friggin sweet it is on my shifter
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-16-2010
A couple hours later....
Not pretty but it works sweet! I'll work on making it nice later....
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-18-2010
I sent an e-mail to Superior asking if their K722A-D kit can bring the kickdown shift times up to 4500 or 4800rpm for all gears.
I like 11 seconds but the improvement of shifting into the 115whp 3000-4000rpm range instead of the 100whp 2500-2800rpm range would be worth the kit's $55 price.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-18-2010
Let us know what you find out from them...
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-19-2010
The reply.
Quote:you should try to get the kit and also disconnect the KD switch from the accelerator linkage and toggle it if you are using it for race/ road sport. yes i would install the kit.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-19-2010
(07-18-2010, 08:19 AM)ForcedInduction I like 11 seconds but the improvement of shifting into the 115whp 3000-4000rpm range instead of the 100whp 2500-2800rpm range would be worth the kit's $55 price.
11 seconds referring to... 0-60?
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-19-2010
Yes.
I asked for more specifics.
Quote:it should help greatly, the pressure will be higher,and thus control the shifts later.... also each set of springs for 1-2 2-3 3-4 have three levels of firmness. i think it will help a lot and there is nothing else i know of anyway made from anyone else.... try it and let me know! i think your good to go!
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-19-2010
Sounds like a winner to me. My trans seems to be in great shape but it shifts so ridiculously early that i manually shift it everywhere. It will shift into 3rd gear @ 20mph under a normal acceleration. bowden cable is good and vacuum is good too. Think I'll have to go for the kit and see what happens.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - aaa - 07-19-2010
(07-19-2010, 02:21 PM)Captain America It will shift into 3rd gear @ 20mph under a normal acceleration. bowden cable is good
You say the bowden is good but that sounds like a typical broken bowden.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-19-2010
Agreed. Does it pull back on its own?
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-19-2010
(07-19-2010, 03:43 PM)aaa(07-19-2010, 02:21 PM)Captain America It will shift into 3rd gear @ 20mph under a normal acceleration. bowden cable is good
You say the bowden is good but that sounds like a typical broken bowden.
Well when I pull on the cable where it is connected to the linkage it has resistance from the trans end.
I have adjusted it out a little bit already because it used to shift from third to fourth then back down to third then up to fourth again.
If I drive it at WOT it seems to rev out normally, its just if my foot is not buried in the peddle it shifts way early.
(07-19-2010, 04:32 PM)ForcedInduction Agreed. Does it pull back on its own?
Yes.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - ForcedInduction - 07-21-2010
Came across this in a 722 manual.
Only problem is it might affect ALL the shift points. It could bring 1-2 2-3 up to a better RPM but it means 3-4 would want to shift too high.
RE: 1 and 2 short shift - Captain America - 07-21-2010
(07-21-2010, 05:40 AM)ForcedInduction Came across this in a 722 manual.
Only problem is it might affect ALL the shift points. It could bring 1-2 2-3 up to a better RPM but it means 3-4 would want to shift too high.
That's the exact problem I had when I adjusted the bowden out...