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+--- Thread: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 (/showthread.php?tid=146)
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-06-2008
Don't worry, the test drive is tonight. I waited until the wife and baby fell asleep then went back and finished installing the IC. :mrgreen:
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-06-2008
It's in and running! My first test around the block had the turbo making 15 psi of boost on light to moderate acceleration. When cruising the boost was around 10 psi or so, but there was instant boost when I stomped on it. Video to come shortly. Exhaust pressure at the turbine inlet was about 23 psi at 15 psi of boost.
Unfortunately on my 0-60 test the boost pressure spiked to 30 psi and blew off one of my IC hoses. At the same time somehow my plastic tube to my exhaust pressure gauge melted. I hope to do some more testing when the engine cools enough for me to fix the plastic tube.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-06-2008
Here is the video. Quality sucks, but straight up on the boost gauge is 15 psi.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utTr4DM70L8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utTr4DM70L8</a><!-- m -->
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 05-07-2008
Glad to see its up and running.
You should set the pressures lower, that much boost and EMP is going to kill your economy.
You only need 10-11psi at the most unless you removed the rack limiter.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-07-2008
The first test runs were with the helper spring disconnected. I hooked it up and now cruise is 7-8 psi with similar boost on acceleration. The boost pressure can spike to 25 psi or more on a quick takeoff which produces 50 PSI in the exhaust manifold, and noticable bogging of the engine. I still have a bit of work to do...
Here is a rev at idle video: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyTxOwbhwqs">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyTxOwbhwqs</a><!-- m -->
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 05-07-2008
Sweet. Are you using the orifices to control the leaks?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-07-2008
I am using the white orifice that was used with my VCV when it controlled a transmission. I have yet to play with orifice size to see how it changes the response of the turbo. My main concern right now is the high boost pressure and exhaust pressure. I need to try driving it with the vanes wide open to see if the problem is the pressure actuator or that that the turbine is too small for this engine. I am concerned that the turbine is a bit too small to produce only 15 psi of boost with the volume of exhaust the 617 puts out at high RPMs. The 2.8 Liberty redlines at 4300, but it uses 20+ psi of boost. I have a feeling that the vanes are fully open at these high pressures I am seeing, and thus can no longer control the boost pressure. If this is the case a wastegate will be needed to bypass the turbine at high RPMs. Hopefully I am wrong and just need a better pressure actuator. :mrgreen:
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 05-07-2008
bgkast I am using the white orifice that was used with my VCV when it controlled a transmission. I have yet to play with orifice size to see how it changes the response of the turbo. My main concern right now is the high boost pressure and exhaust pressure. I need to try driving it with the vanes wide open to see if the problem is the pressure actuator or that that the turbine is too small for this engine. I am concerned that the turbine is a bit too small to produce only 15 psi of boost with the volume of exhaust the 617 puts out at high RPMs. The 2.8 Liberty redlines at 4300, but it uses 20+ psi of boost. I have a feeling that the vanes are fully open at these high pressures I am seeing, and thus can no longer control the boost pressure. If this is the case a wastegate will be needed to bypass the turbine at high RPMs. Hopefully I am wrong and just need a better pressure actuator. :mrgreen:Ya that would really suck. I was already having some serious doubts about it and moving to a Holset VGT. Let me know what you find. If it is the worst case I can still sell it on ebay as a kit with the flange, some gasser out there will be perfectly suited.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 05-08-2008
The liberty is also a 4-valve engine. I'd be willing to be that the R 428 DOHC flows much more air at 4300rpm than the 617 does at 5000rpm.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 05-08-2008
I think my chinese loan from the gubment might buy me one of these: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&viewitem=&item=180239830296&_trksid=p3907.m29">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... =p3907.m29</a><!-- m -->
$60 for shipping.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-08-2008
ForcedInduction The liberty is also a 4-valve engine. I'd be willing to be that the R 428 DOHC flows much more air at 4300rpm than the 617 does at 5000rpm.
I hope you are right. The problem seems most pronounced in first gear when the Revs come up really fast so I think the issue may be the pressure actuator not responding quickly enough.
Winmutt-
That looks like a good buy. Is that a T3 inlet flange?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 05-08-2008
bgkast That looks like a good buy. Is that a T3 inlet flange?
Looks like it. Maybe t4 T25 something I can find a cheap adapter for. I am waiting to pull the trigger until I hear more feedback from you. Are you going to be working on it this weekend? Auct ends in 3days.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-09-2008
Tonight or tomorrow I will be wiring the vanes fully open and testing it. That should let me know if it's the turbine size or the actuator that is causing the issue. The T25 to T3 flange adaptor is a pain...hopefully it is a t3 flange.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-09-2008
Tonight I gave a quick adjustment to the pressure actuator so the vanes are initially part-way open. The turbo now is not as quick to respond (obviously) but it does not hit more than 40 psi of exhaust pressure and 20 psi of boost. I also noticed that at full load and high RPMs the boost will hit 20 psi or so then begin dropping, even as the RPMs increase so I really think it is a problem with the pressure actuator and not that the turbo is too small. I plan to replace the pressure actuator with a long bolt and some washers to hold the vanes fully open to confirm my theory tomorrow.
One cool thing I noticed tonight is that at cruise and under moderate acceleration the exhaust:boost pressure ratio is close to 1 and can sometimes reach less than one! Under heavy acceleration the ratio is around 2.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - GREASY_BEAST - 05-10-2008
The boost dropping at high rpm may be from something else, based on my experience with a similar phenomenon with the stock turbo. When I stomp it up through the rpms (in 3rd gear) the boost rises to a peak of about 20psi at around 3800 and drops down steadily to around 16psi at 4400 (governed limit). I suspect that this is due to the TC pulling the rack back, while increasing revs, so the ratio between the amount of air the engine burns and the amount of exhaust gas energy is less due to less fuel per cyl. per cycle. Adjusting the boost controller causes the 3500rpm "spike" (more parabolic than pyramidal) to increase in amplitude, but over the same rev-band. If one were to graph this with boost on the y-axis and rpm on the x-axis, the parabolic spike would get taller, but not wider when the boost controller is turned up. Thats what leads me to think its fueling-related...Perhaps a similar thing is happening in your case? Or maybe a combination of actuator problems and this effect?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-10-2008
I just got back from a test drive with the vanes fully open and could not get the boost to hit more than 13 psi with the turbine inlet pressure never reaching 25-27 psi. It appears that the turbo is a fine size for the 617 and that my problem with over-boosting/high turbine inlet pressure is caused by my pressure actuator. I am talking with forge motorsport about having a custom pressure actuator made for me, as I have not been able to find a large diameter pressure actuator that operates at the pressures I need. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0001&product=FMAC48CUST">http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/conten ... FMAC48CUST</a><!-- m -->
I did a few 0-60 runs and noticed that my EGTs are abot 250* F lower than with the stock T3 (650 vs 850). Looks like it's time to bump up the fuel. :twisted:
Edit: I looked at my pre-install video and my EGTs w the T3 were 750 after a 0-60 run, not 850
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-12-2008
I just got a quote from Forge:
£84.53 + carriage£8.00(if applicable) + VAT.
Spendy, but it is a nice unit. I think I will keep an eye out for a used one and drive it with the vanes starting part-way open for now..until the dollar gains back some strength at least. :roll:
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 05-12-2008
Good to hear all is well. That gt2559v went for $375+ to an ebayer names om617 power. I messaged him and told him to hit STD up. Can't wait to get mine rigged up.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - MTUPower - 05-13-2008
All of this is great news. I'm getting sick of black smoke at low RPM's. I'd think with the FLFL removed and the TC adjusted you will be able to use close to 20 PSI of boost at higher RPM's. I'm getting no smoke at close to 17 PSI now.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - MTUPower - 05-15-2008
Someone was asking for EGT's- here's what I got at a steady speed on I-95 with A/C running ambient air temp was 82f.
3100 RPM, 6 psi boost, 650 EGT.
2900 RPM, 4 psi boost, 625 EGT.
2400 RPM, 3 psi boost, 450 EGT.
My probe is pre turbo, my manifolds are process coated, my pump is turned up and I have a A/A IC. 617-95X 300TD.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 05-16-2008
MTUPower Someone was asking for EGT's- here's what I got at a steady speed on I-95 with A/C running ambient air temp was 82f.What about 12psi? I hit 6 pulling out of the driveway
3100 RPM, 6 psi boost, 650 EGT.
2900 RPM, 4 psi boost, 625 EGT.
2400 RPM, 3 psi boost, 450 EGT.
My probe is pre turbo, my manifolds are process coated, my pump is turned up and I have a A/A IC. 617-95X 300TD.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-16-2008
Since large diameter, low pressure wastegate actuators are so hard to find and expensive, my latest plan is to buy an external wastegate off of ebay (like this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/40MM-External-Turbo-Wastegate-MK4-MK5-JZA80-2JZ-GTE-2JZ_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ016QQitemZ260241010313QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/40MM-Ext ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->), remove the diaphragm and head, and make it into an actuator. After I remove the head I think all I will need to do is make a plate that the head can bolt to that has the bolt pattern of a standard actuator (to fit the bracket on the turbo), and replace the wastegate valve head with a rod to connect my turnbuckle to.
What do you think?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-16-2008
winmuttMTUPower Someone was asking for EGT's- here's what I got at a steady speed on I-95 with A/C running ambient air temp was 82f.What about 12psi? I hit 6 pulling out of the driveway
3100 RPM, 6 psi boost, 650 EGT.
2900 RPM, 4 psi boost, 625 EGT.
2400 RPM, 3 psi boost, 450 EGT.
My probe is pre turbo, my manifolds are process coated, my pump is turned up and I have a A/A IC. 617-95X 300TD.
I can hit 6 psi revving at idle. :mrgreen:
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 05-16-2008
bgkast I can hit 6 psi revving at idle. :mrgreen:
I can hit 10psi decelerating off the highway. :mrgreen:
Quote:What do you think?
It could work but keep scanning ebay. I found mine for about $15.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-17-2008
ForcedInduction It could work but keep scanning ebay. I found mine for about $15.
Any idea what it is off of? I've been looking for a few months.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 05-17-2008
bgkast Any idea what it is off of? I've been looking for a few months.
No clue, it just happened to be exactly what I was looking for. They are all pretty much the same bolt spacing and rod diameter. Just keep an eye out for a straight one in the pressure range you want.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-19-2008
There is a part # 35242115F Liberty turbo listed on ebay currently: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRETT-TURBO-35242115F-763360-1_W0QQitemZ270238076314QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270238076314&">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRETT- ... 238076314&</a><!-- m -->
The only difference between it and the other version of the liberty turbos seems to be the pressure actuator. Because of this I believe that all of the liberty turbos are GT2260Vs! :mrgreen: :twisted:
Also looking at this picture of a sprinter GT2256V it does not look like the exducer of the turbine is any larger than the Liberty turbo's, it just looks like the GT2256 uses a larger V-band on the turbine outlet.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - MTUPower - 05-27-2008
I can't get a steady 12 psi while driving- only on acceleration.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 05-28-2008
What turbo are you running MTU?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 06-06-2008
bgkast,
How are things going? My engine is getting swapped this weekend which means turbo is next on the chopping block.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 06-06-2008
It's not ideal yet, but it's working. I have the pressure actuator/turn-buckle adjusted as far out (long) as I can get it which makes the vanes start about half-way open. This allows me to not hit crazy boost pressure but I am not getting the full benefit of the VNT. I still get some high exhaust pressures when rapidly accelerating in 1st and 2nd as the actuator tries to open the vanes, but I now cruise at 5 rather than 8 psi and only hit 15 psi when accelerating (not including 1st and 2nd ). I have ordered a new 5 psi actuator to replace my 10 psi unit which should help things. It is the same diameter as the one I have (2.75" diaphragm), ideally I would have used something in the 3.5" range but that would have had to be custom made and $$$$$!!!!
It's so cool to be cruising along, punch the pedal and see the boost rising almost as fast as I can press the pedal! :twisted:
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 06-06-2008
5PSI should be what you need, its what I use and mine works almost perfect for my engine's needs.
Do you still have the spring inside the vacuum actuator?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 06-06-2008
My 5 psi (I think) actuator arrived today and it works INFINITELY better!!!! Cruise is now 3-4 psi and it hits 11 psi on acceleration almost as fast as I can press the go pedal. Best of all no more exhaust pressure spike!!! The highest exhaust pressure I hit now is 25 psi vs. 50 or so that I was hitting before :? There is a noticeable loss of power with that kind of pressure at the exhaust manifold. :roll:
I have enough power to do a burn out now and even get sideways when I punch it in second around a corner (it was wet out).
Forced- Yes I do have the spring in the vacuum actuator too. The opposing spring in the vacuum pod widens the operating pressure of the pressure actuator: instead of cracking at 5 psi and being fully actuated at 7 psi it cracks as 5 psi and is fully actuated around 11 psi. That was one of the big problems with the too high pressure actuator and helper spring arrangement, it cracked at 7 psi but did not fully actuate until 16 psi or so, by then there was so much pressure in the exhaust that it had a hard time pushing the vanes open.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 06-07-2008
The GT2056V Shaved 1 sec off of my 0-60 time, but the car definitely "feels" faster with the faster boost response.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - h2odiesel - 06-07-2008
BG
I've been trying to keep tabs on your vnt work as I have a liberty turbo I want to put on my OM616 powered unimog. I'm going to have to go back and reread all of your posts soon. Have you done any internal pump mods yet?
Bob
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 06-07-2008
Not yet. I plan to yank off the ALDA as soon as I can get a 21 and 24mm wrench, adjust the full load screw and maybe play with the delivery valves and have the injectors extrude-honed.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 06-07-2008
bgkast Not yet. I plan to yank off the ALDA as soon as I can get a 21 and 24mm wrench
It should be two 27mm or 1-1/16".
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - babymog - 06-08-2008
ForcedInduction It should be two 27mm or 1-1/16".
... which is a handy size to have for the oil cooler and the injectors.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - Bajaman - 06-11-2008
BG Did you get your gasket and the V-clamp from a Jeep dealer?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 06-11-2008
Yes, part numbers should be posted a few pages back in this thread.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 06-13-2008
Another idea for those wanting to go the electronic route is the cruise control actuator. Not to control the vanes but as a throttle position sensor. It has a potentiometer inside that tells the cruise amp the throttle position.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 09-26-2008
I am taking my stuff to a local custom shop tomorrow. The adapter pass through hole needs to be enlarged, exducer manufactured and oil situation sorted out and off we will go. I am going to be using bajaman's method of control. It is by far the easiest, <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=229096">http://mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showt ... p?t=229096</a><!-- m -->.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 10-04-2008
Where is the restrictor orifice in the stock oil feed line? I am concerned I may be pushing too much oil through my turbo with my new oil feed line. The feed line is made from the banjo fitting of a stock oil feed line, with braided stainless line and another banjo on the turbo side. If the stock restrictor is not in the banjo end of the stock line then I don't have any restriction in my new oil line.
hock:
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 10-04-2008
The restriction is in the flange end of the tube that bolts onto the turbo.
Look in the oil inlet of your turbo. I bet you'll see a restriction orifice like mine has.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - Simpler=Better - 11-04-2008
Is it possible to make a stainless oil delivery line on your own? I'm having trouble finding a local shop that cna make one for me. I've been hearing "Oh we don't play around with car parts" or "I don't know anything about turbochargers" alot lately.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 11-04-2008
Simpler=Better Is it possible to make a stainless oil delivery line on your own? I'm having trouble finding a local shop that cna make one for me. I've been hearing "Oh we don't play around with car parts" or "I don't know anything about turbochargers" alot lately.
I am going to use the tranny oil cooler lines. I'll let you know how it goes.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - Simpler=Better - 11-04-2008
I read somewhere that the peak oil pressure measured on a 617 was aroudn 150-200psi. Won't a transmission cooler line explode at a pressure that high?
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - winmutt - 11-04-2008
Simpler=Better I read somewhere that the peak oil pressure measured on a 617 was aroudn 150-200psi. Won't a transmission cooler line explode at a pressure that high?200psi is the bursting limit on most hoses of those types. As it will be draining into the oil pan from there I *doubt* the pressure will get that high.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - ForcedInduction - 11-04-2008
The oil pump's relief valve opens at a hair over 100psi. The highest I've seen on my gauge at the oil filter housing is 110psi with cold oil.
Re: GT2056V (Jeep Liberty Diesel) Turbo on a 617 - bgkast - 11-04-2008
hey mutt- can you look down the oil feed hole and see if there is a restrictor in there?