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+--- Thread: OM617 compound turbos (/showthread.php?tid=2278)
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OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-14-2011
I was going to wait until the project is 100% but I'm just too excited after getting it running, so ignore the hood for now...
Low pressure turbo: Schwitzer S2E, 92 GMC Topkick (Cat 3116)
High pressure turbo: Garrett GT2256V, 03 Dodge Sprinter (OM612)
This is NOT intended to be a full-on compound system, high boost pressure is not the goal. Its intended to supplement top-end airflow, especially at high altitudes (above 8k') where the 2256 chokes out above 13psi. You could say its closer to a sequential system. Manifold boost will remain at the current 15psi, but the potential for high pressures is there if I switch back to an EGR manifold and use an external wastegate to flow around the VNT.
The up-pipe is 2.5" using welded aluminized steel exhaust pipe and a mild steel T3 flange.
The wastegate actuator is of unknown origin but bench-cracks at 8psi, which should put it in the 6-10psi desired boost range.
The second stage water injection trigger will be changed from the current 15psi manifold pressure activation to 6psi first-stage boost activation.
The expansion tank has been eliminated to clear the air filter housing and clean up the engine bay a bit. The intercooler and engine water systems have been combined with a 1/16" orifice between the circuits for level equalization.
A 15psi ISSPRO gauge will be added on top of the current tri-gauge cluster on my dash. I was going to include drive pressure but determined that information wasn't worth the $50 of another gauge, primary drive pressure is what matters most.
The air filter is from a 2008 Ford F350 6.4 Powerstroke, it uses a Donaldson PowerCore filter. I'm working on a removable rain blocker for the inlet.
The exhaust pipe is not complete, it will later have an extension with a 45* end pointing to the right. (Update: exhaust pipe) There is also a 1/8" drain on the bottom to prevent any water accumulation.
The air filter mounts securely to the hood using neodymium magnets from a hard drive. The housing must be removed to open the hood, quick and easy requiring only a 3/8" nut driver.
I'm only waiting on a 2-2.5" 45* silicone boot to attach the boost pipes between the turbos. Then it will only be cosmetic details to finish.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - 300D50 - 02-14-2011
Holy F man!
That, is porn.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - garage - 02-14-2011
OH SHIITT
Cant wait to see this run....
That looks gnarly
RE: OM617 compound turbos - winmutt - 02-14-2011
You are going to need alot of wiper fluid to keep the soot off your windshield
. Are you going to install a flap on the exhaust?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-14-2011
(02-14-2011, 11:55 AM)winmutt Are you going to install a flap on the exhaust?
I considered it for about 5 seconds until I decided the clinking would be too annoying and it would also look very cheezy. I will be adding an extension with a 45* angle end later on. I don't want to pay the $120 for a chrome one right now, other areas have priority.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - willbhere4u - 02-14-2011
Are you going to put a flapper on that stack to keep the rain or snow out? or will it be OK like that?
I like the look of the turbo and stack but the air cleaner looks like a missile launcher!
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-14-2011
Unless there is a massive downpour the drain hole should prevent any water buildup.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - willbhere4u - 02-14-2011
Mad Max you need to get that puppy in some flat black and remove the front fenders!
I like the fact that it's different!
RE: OM617 compound turbos - led-panzer - 02-14-2011
I'd be very interested to see what kind of flange/pipe connection you have between the turbines, and also is the weight of the second turbo entirely on the exhaust manifold?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-14-2011
Its 2.5" V-band on the outlet and a generic eBay T3 flange on the inlet.
The weight is split 3 ways; the turbo outlet flange stops torsional vibration, the old downpipe manifold bracket supports some weight and a bracket from the T3 flange to the valvecover holds what it can. Vibration is a concern though, only time will tell if the pipe/manifold/bracket/vlavecover can support 30lbs hanging off them!
RE: OM617 compound turbos - led-panzer - 02-14-2011
Well now that you've got all that air you can just ship your tax refund straight to myna
Edit- Just read your refund was 400 bucks so nevermind, mine was over 1000 so I just assumed. It will be interesting to hear how that air filter reacts at highway speed. Or the first time you catch a bird.....
RE: OM617 compound turbos - George3soccer - 02-14-2011
Very interesting.
Can you exPlain a little but more why you choose to use that powerstroke intake system.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - Captain America - 02-14-2011
Hope you have a good camera to film that bitch with....
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-14-2011
(02-14-2011, 01:44 PM)led-panzer It will be interesting to hear how that air filter reacts at highway speed.
I've been up to 70mph so far, I don't want to push it without a load on the turbo. The magnets hold it pretty secure.
(02-14-2011, 02:26 PM)George3soccer Can you exPlain a little but more why you choose to use that powerstroke intake system.Powercore filters are the best on the market. They filter better than paper and have huge surface area in a compact space. The only down side is price.
(02-14-2011, 04:03 PM)Captain America Hope you have a good camera to film that bitch with....Yep, bought an HD camera just for this project.
I went ahead and made a stack. I'll have to make an alignment notch on the flange, the vibration wiggles it down no matter how tight the clamp is. I'll probably end up installing engine shocks too.
Just driving around a few hours I've gotten quite a few thumbs up and even a guy in an Audi videoing it.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - willbhere4u - 02-14-2011
I like the stack!
RE: OM617 compound turbos - DrewGerhan - 02-14-2011
That puts the stack I had to shame! What does it sound like when its building boost? Prolly pretty friggen sweet huh?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - Riverstick - 02-14-2011
Well done Forced....I've been observing your signature for a while where you mention the 4" hood stack and was wondering about it......job very well executed...Can I ask why don't you increase the psi/fuel delivery and land the output into the 250bhp plus category?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - DeliveryValve - 02-14-2011
(02-14-2011, 05:06 PM)ForcedInduction ..
(02-14-2011, 02:26 PM)George3soccer Can you exPlain a little but more why you choose to use that powerstroke intake system.Powercore filters are the best on the market. They filter better than paper and have huge surface area in a compact space. The only down side is price.
...
I thought you were going to keep the filter box inside the cabin.
Then you can mount the turbo facing the other way.
.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ConnClark - 02-14-2011
Good job forced... Can't say I like the looks of the air cleaner though
RE: OM617 compound turbos - Motorhead - 02-14-2011
That's bad ass Force, don't worry about rain or snow just keep your foot in it !
RE: OM617 compound turbos - dieselboy - 02-14-2011
So what's the plan for fuel?
It looks great except for the filter. I honestly don't see the need for it. What's wrong with what you had?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - mr_manny - 02-14-2011
(02-14-2011, 07:30 PM)DeliveryValve(02-14-2011, 05:06 PM)ForcedInduction ..
(02-14-2011, 02:26 PM)George3soccer Can you exPlain a little but more why you choose to use that powerstroke intake system.Powercore filters are the best on the market. They filter better than paper and have huge surface area in a compact space. The only down side is price.
...
I thought you were going to keep the filter box inside the cabin.
Then you can mount the turbo facing the other way.
.
you know, your cowgirl is pretty distracting :p
Forced,
your innovation is always appreciated
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
(02-14-2011, 07:00 PM)Riverstick Can I ask why don't you increase the psi/fuel delivery and land the output into the 250bhp plus category?
No Myna pump yet.
(02-14-2011, 07:30 PM)DeliveryValve I thought you were going to keep the filter box inside the cabin.I changed my mind against cutting the firewall. I barely had the heart to cut the hood!
RE: OM617 compound turbos - 300D50 - 02-15-2011
Hoods = easier to replace than firewalls.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - yankneck696 - 02-15-2011
Are you worried about visibility and/or overzealous cops? Or is this going to be track only? Also, I THINK there are DOT regs about exhaust exiting after passenger compartment windows.
Really radical & different, but I personally woulda done something different for an ait cleaner housing. The mailman might try to put junkmail in there.... LOL
Ed
RE: OM617 compound turbos - led-panzer - 02-15-2011
Still a serious PITA. At least with the firewall you could weld a patch and cover it up.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
(02-15-2011, 08:03 AM)yankneck696 Are you worried about visibility and/or overzealous cops?Three drove by me yesterday without even a head turn.
Visibility is fine. Try driving a semi, its far worse. I have my CDL so technically I could argue I'm a "professional driver".
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
Its time to fold the project and cut my losses. I ran it by the shop I get my emissions checked and they said there is no way they could pass it with the exhaust in front of the passenger compartment. Because of the sway bar there is no way to get a normal exhaust in there without a really funky downpipe.
I have a GT2359V on my shelf, but at this depressing point I'm just going to get the car running great again, enjoy the summer with it and think about installing it next winter.
To get back to where it was I'll need a new downpipe, hood and coolant reservoir hose. Luckily, the scrap haulers hadn't emptied the metal bin yet so I was able to retrieve my old muffler exhaust to put back on the 240.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - DeliveryValve - 02-15-2011
Why not put the exhaust through the fender and out a side pipe along the rocker panel?
It's ashamed to scrap it, because I see the potential of what your trying to achieve.
.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - winmutt - 02-15-2011
Or just run the pipe over the top of the car
Why not just run it through the firewall where the battery would have been? Or?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - 300D50 - 02-15-2011
Forced, here's what you do.
You loop the exhaust up along the A-pillar, along the roof line, like a snorkel.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
(02-15-2011, 01:47 PM)DeliveryValve Why not put the exhaust through the fender and out a side pipe along the rocker panel?Unibody. Cutting through the panel would be cutting through the "frame" and compromise the body strength.
Quote:It's ashamed to scrap it, because I see the potential of what your trying to achieve.Its sad, I know. But there are even better things on the horizon. Cummins is now putting VGT turbos on their 3.3L and 4.5L engines, its only a matter of time before they start to appear on eBay.
Quote:Or just run the pipe over the top of the carYou're the 6th person today to say that, 300D50 makes 7.
In any case its all past tense now, the S2E is in my fireplace with the HE341Ve as a reminder to myself to "think better". Between the two projects, thats $1400 down the shitter for absolutely nothing. Thats a Myna pump, one of those new 4.5L Holset VGTs, or hell, another car!
(at myself)
RE: OM617 compound turbos - 300D50 - 02-15-2011
You can always do what some of the hondon't kids do, and put the turbo at the end of the car before the fart can, so it "breaths better".
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
A rear turbo would be interesting, but the volume of fabrication is well beyond what I'm in the mindset to accomplish after this.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - led-panzer - 02-15-2011
Move to Ohio, if the vehicle is over 25 years old its exempt from emissions testing. Or just ship it to me
RE: OM617 compound turbos - willbhere4u - 02-15-2011
Just run it like that all year! And before you do emissions run it temporary down the side of the car who cares like you said the cops don't care and even if they did it would be a warning or a $15 ticket
RE: OM617 compound turbos - 300D50 - 02-15-2011
The Forced I know wouldn't give up so easily, stick it through!
RE: OM617 compound turbos - winmutt - 02-15-2011
Plenty of states dont smog Diesels (GA being one).
RE: OM617 compound turbos - dieselboy - 02-15-2011
Ca doesn't even smog older diesels. I'd turn the turbo around and run the exhaust forward down then back.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
All of its already off.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - yankneck696 - 02-15-2011
Florida doesn't even have inspections. Sorry man.... You could always just make it a track car & show the ricers that you can do it with a diesel sled.
Ed
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-15-2011
(02-15-2011, 07:52 PM)yankneck696 You could always just make it a track car & show the ricers that you can do it with a diesel sled.
If only I had the money for a strictly toy car.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - E300TSC - 02-15-2011
Well, it was fun while it lasted, I reckon'...
RE: OM617 compound turbos - Biohazard - 02-15-2011
Damnit. That was a kickass set up too.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - Oil Burner - 02-15-2011
Forced
Sorry to hear you gave up on it. That was some cool fabrication and engine work.
Did you ever dyno and video it runing never so any post of that?
Keep up the cool work you inspire some of us
RE: OM617 compound turbos - jeemu - 02-16-2011
Its good you remove those on that car.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - willbhere4u - 02-16-2011
(02-16-2011, 04:14 PM)jeemu Its good you remove those on that car.
I don't think he would get in any trouble in this country for that set up!
Evan if they wont run it through emissions the police just turn a blind eye to the fact that it wouldn't pass
RE: OM617 compound turbos - dieselboy - 02-16-2011
Are you going to sell the s2e?
RE: OM617 compound turbos - ForcedInduction - 02-17-2011
(02-16-2011, 09:35 PM)dieselboy Are you going to sell the s2e?
Maybe. I'd take $50 plus shipping.
RE: OM617 compound turbos - winmutt - 02-17-2011
(02-16-2011, 04:14 PM)jeemu Its good you remove those on that car.
Why? Its what I would call ghetto faboulous but it sure would have been fun to see it running.