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+--- Thread: 617 Turbo selection? (/showthread.php?tid=2623)
617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-15-2011
Im looking for better response in my 300D, but also want to keep drive pressure safe. I dont know enough about electronics or vacuum to do a variable geometry turbo.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - winmutt - 05-16-2011
Have you done the needful maintenance? The cars are pretty enjoyable when they are properly tuned with stock parts.
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-16-2011
(05-16-2011, 04:00 PM)winmutt Have you done the needful maintenance? The cars are pretty enjoyable when they are properly tuned with stock parts.
I havent got around to it yet, but a checklist would be wonderful
I enjoy it thoroughly stock, but i would just like a little more power
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-16-2011
It makes a big difference when the ALDA is removed... only takes about five minutes to do if your retarded haha
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - larsalan - 05-17-2011
(05-16-2011, 11:54 PM)Captain America It makes a big difference when the ALDA is removed... only takes about five minutes to do if your retarded haha
I must be super retarded. It took me forever to remove mine. I had to make my own wrench and then get out a 3 ft pipe to loosen it. That bugger was intent on holding me back
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-17-2011
(05-16-2011, 11:54 PM)Captain America It makes a big difference when the ALDA is removed... only takes about five minutes to do if your retarded haha
I have a MW pump off of a non turbo 617.....
Or would it just be easier to remove it off the original pump?
Im new to the benz diesels, except the V8 in our claas chopper, but being a mercedes motor, we never have to work on the big V8
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - larsalan - 05-17-2011
here is one a pump with it removed
![[Image: 327591d1283010274-87-300sdl-0-60-51-seco...da-004.jpg]](http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/327591d1283010274-87-300sdl-0-60-51-seconds-alda-004.jpg)
here is the alda alone
![[Image: 327590d1283010274-87-300sdl-0-60-51-seco...da-003.jpg]](http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/327590d1283010274-87-300sdl-0-60-51-seconds-alda-003.jpg)
Mine I had to turn 1 1/4 in open end wrench into like a 1 7/8 or some huge size
then stuck a piece of steel (allen wrench) into the hole where the boost line screws in
then used the 3ft pipe to get it out.
I bet there is an easier way and other pumps/aldas may not be so stubborn
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - 4rnnr33 - 05-17-2011
Im looking into this same thing right now. I cannot decide what trims to get or what kind of turbo to get or if i should just get mine rebuilt. Anyone know what the optimum turbo setup would be for a 617?
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-18-2011
(05-17-2011, 05:46 PM)larsalan here is one a pump with it removed
here is the alda alone
Mine I had to turn 1 1/4 in open end wrench into like a 1 7/8 or some huge size
then stuck a piece of steel (allen wrench) into the hole where the boost line screws in
then used the 3ft pipe to get it out.
I bet there is an easier way and other pumps/aldas may not be so stubborn
Yeah just remember that you have to turn the wrench clockwise to loosen it lol, while holding the ALDA from turning..
(05-15-2011, 08:19 PM)MFSuper90 Im looking for better response in my 300D, but also want to keep drive pressure safe. I dont know enough about electronics or vacuum to do a variable geometry turbo.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated
(05-17-2011, 06:30 PM)4rnnr33 Im looking into this same thing right now. I cannot decide what trims to get or what kind of turbo to get or if i should just get mine rebuilt. Anyone know what the optimum turbo setup would be for a 617?
After the maintenance, the only real thing to do is install an EGT gauge and start turning up fuel... But when you turn the fuel up, you will need to turn the boost up... When you turn the boost up, you will need a larger turbo.... vicious cycle!
- More fuel
- More boost
- larger turbo
To figure out the turbo, you will need to decide on boost level and then you can size the proper compressor... The new thread by AAA has very good info on doing so and my first reply shows how the stock T3, 45 trim Garrett quickly becomes overworked and too small. I feel a good alternative without buying/modifying/ and fabing a bunch of stuff is to just have a shop install a larger compressor on the stock T3 Garrett. The only thing I dont know about yet is the drive pressure (EMP - Exhaust Manifold Pressure) vs. Boost. I will know shorty when I get my 300D back together...
Here is a link to the new Turbo info Page:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-new-and-improved-turbo-information-thread-needs-your-contributions
And in post #6 I give the link for the Turbo Compressor calc...
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-new-and-improved-turbo-information-thread-needs-your-contributions?pid=28282#pid28282
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-18-2011
Whats your ideas on putting a .50 trim T3 garrett or even the .55 T3 garrett on a 617?
(plus they have an external wastegate)
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - 4rnnr33 - 05-18-2011
I actually just read your part in the thread and think I am going the same route you did. (60 trip comp wheel in the stock t3) I actually even plan on going through the same shop unless you have anything bad to say about them. Thanks for the help!
(05-17-2011, 06:30 PM)4rnnr33 Im looking into this same thing right now. I cannot decide what trims to get or what kind of turbo to get or if i should just get mine rebuilt. Anyone know what the optimum turbo setup would be for a 617?
After the maintenance, the only real thing to do is install an EGT gauge and start turning up fuel... But when you turn the fuel up, you will need to turn the boost up... When you turn the boost up, you will need a larger turbo.... vicious cycle!
- More fuel
- More boost
- larger turbo
To figure out the turbo, you will need to decide on boost level and then you can size the proper compressor... The new thread by AAA has very good info on doing so and my first reply shows how the stock T3, 45 trim Garrett quickly becomes overworked and too small. I feel a good alternative without buying/modifying/ and fabing a bunch of stuff is to just have a shop install a larger compressor on the stock T3 Garrett. The only thing I dont know about yet is the drive pressure (EMP - Exhaust Manifold Pressure) vs. Boost. I will know shorty when I get my 300D back together...
Here is a link to the new Turbo info Page:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-new-and-improved-turbo-information-thread-needs-your-contributions
And in post #6 I give the link for the Turbo Compressor calc...
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-new-and-improved-turbo-information-thread-needs-your-contributions?pid=28282#pid28282
[/quote]
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-18-2011
(05-18-2011, 01:02 PM)4rnnr33 I actually just read your part in the thread and think I am going the same route you did. (60 trip comp wheel in the stock t3) I actually even plan on going through the same shop unless you have anything bad to say about them. Thanks for the help!
Sweet! No man, those guys are awesome. I would highly recommend them. James even knew I had a Garrett off a Mercedes before I told him haha. He definitely knows what he's doing over there.
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - ConnClark - 05-18-2011
(05-18-2011, 06:15 AM)MFSuper90 Whats your ideas on putting a .50 trim T3 garrett or even the .55 T3 garrett on a 617?I have done it with a .50 trim from an OM603. It will give more power at the top end. The losses on the bottom end are not very much.
(plus they have an external wastegate)
NOTE: it is not a direct drop in.
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-19-2011
[/quote]
NOTE: it is not a direct drop in.
[/quote]
Thanks ConnClark, thats what i wanted to know
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-19-2011
Yeah the OM603 And OM617 T3's are not the same
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - ConnClark - 05-19-2011
The main things you need to do to get put an OM603 turbo on an OM617 are the following.
1. Remove studs from the turbine inlet flange.
2. Drill out/enlarge stud holes to the appropriate size of of the studs on your OM617 exhaust manifold.
3. Reclock the center section.
4. Finesse your oil feed and oil return lines(slight angle difference).
5. Come up with a waste gate linkage after you reclock the compressor housing.
6. Either machine a new longer spacer that goes between the compressor out let and the intake manifold or craft some sort of extension. ( i used a plastic conduit size adapter to lengthen my spacer, not a great solution but it works okay)
7. Fight with the turbine out let and down tube a bit
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-19-2011
Well, i adjusted the valves last night. What else is on the maintenance checklist??
My alda is maxed out, I am gonna yank it off next time i get the chance
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-19-2011
Did you check cam timing while you had the valve cover off? I forgot to do that too last time I adjusted the valves too.
Then I would Time the IP and advance it to about 26, depending on where the cam timing is at...
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - 4rnnr33 - 05-19-2011
(05-19-2011, 04:06 PM)Captain America Did you check cam timing while you had the valve cover off? I forgot to do that too last time I adjusted the valves too.
Then I would Time the IP and advance it to about 26, depending on where the cam timing is at...
Do you have any more info on timing adjustment?
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-19-2011
(05-19-2011, 04:06 PM)Captain America Did you check cam timing while you had the valve cover off? I forgot to do that too last time I adjusted the valves too.
Then I would Time the IP and advance it to about 26, depending on where the cam timing is at...
No, i didnt
Do you have info on how to do this, specs, and so on?
thanks
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - larsalan - 05-19-2011
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM617TimingChainStretch
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - 4rnnr33 - 05-19-2011
How about info on setting the ip timing
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-20-2011
IP timing is cake! Easier than a valve adjustment!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=178349
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-20-2011
Thanks Captain America!
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-21-2011
No problem buddy
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - winmutt - 05-26-2011
Needful things.
Valves, throttle linkage (hits max stop), turbo adjustment, ALDA.
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-26-2011
So....
I pulled the alda off, and in your picture, captain, their is no spring on the pin coming out of the top of the pump?
I tried taking the spring off, and it doesn't hardly run.
Am i missing something here?
Thanks,
Eric
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - DeliveryValve - 05-26-2011
(05-15-2011, 08:19 PM)MFSuper90 Im looking for better response in my 300D, but also want to keep drive pressure safe. I dont know enough about electronics or vacuum to do a variable geometry turbo.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated
Stock bolt on.... KKK K26, it will give you a better response then the Garrett counterpart.
.
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-27-2011
(05-26-2011, 09:38 AM)MFSuper90 So....
I pulled the alda off, and in your picture, captain, their is no spring on the pin coming out of the top of the pump?
I tried taking the spring off, and it doesn't hardly run.
Am i missing something here?
Thanks,
Eric
Actually that was larsalan's Pictures, but yes there should be a spring pulling the rod up.
Here is a pic of mine:
Careful putting the spring back on! I shot two of them into earths orbit!
Rod up = max fuel ... When I say max, I mean with the ALDA limiting it (no boost)
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - MFSuper90 - 05-27-2011
That makes more sense now
It didn't seem to make a very much difference compared to just having the ALDA maxed out.
Now i am just waiting for that new IP adjustment thread....
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-27-2011
(05-27-2011, 09:30 AM)MFSuper90 That makes more sense now
It didn't seem to make a very much difference compared to just having the ALDA maxed out.
Now i am just waiting for that new IP adjustment thread....
Same here. I cant wait to see how it differs from FI's ...
I did notice a difference from ALDA maxed to No ALDA. No ALDA was far better!
But I think my pump is on the lean side anyway...
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 05-31-2011
Alright so who's Garrett did I see at Performance Techniques today?
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - 4rnnr33 - 05-31-2011
(05-31-2011, 04:40 PM)Captain America Alright so who's Garrett did I see at Performance Techniques today?
That would be mine I'm guessing. Hows she looking?
RE: 617 Turbo selection? - Captain America - 06-01-2011
Bomb.com!