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+--- Thread: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP (/showthread.php?tid=3115)
Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - kmaser - 11-12-2011
I am trying to decide which VNT / VGT turbo to use for my OM617 with tomnik's 6.5mm elements. My plan was the the GT2256V but I have been led to believe it is too small and have been considering the GT2360V, would the 2256 work or should I go for the 2360 or is there a better option yet?
Thanks
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - tomnik - 11-13-2011
Hi,
do you have a well working controller for the VTG?
Did you run your stock turbo with the new pump?
Asking because I don't see the need for a VTG with larger elements up to now with the stock turbo.
My next step is a larger turbo but still waste gate.
Already now I can see first signs of torque issues for the (stock) auto tranny.
What is your manifold flange?
Vac or electronic actuator?
Tom
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - kmaser - 11-13-2011
I am finishing the rebuild on the motor and starting it this week, the stock turbo is no good as it was spooled up when the last engine blew all the oil out the pressure sensing line at highway speed. I am working on an Arduino based controller as in my post below using N75 vacuum based control. The manifold flange is T3 but I will make a new manifold if needed or adapter. I'm not in a hurry for a VGT and the tranny may not survive a VGT for too long. In the mean time I still need a WG turbo to get it going and if I have to buy a turbo anyway do
You have any suggestions for an upgrade to my k26?
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - tomnik - 11-14-2011
Once you finish the Arduino let me know.
For the WG I always buy occasionally, nothing repeatable.
I am also limited as I don't make changes on the car that are not reversible and the look must be stock.
Tom
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - led-panzer - 11-18-2011
2360 would be good. I'm looking for a 2359 myself, they are rare. The 2256 would be too small in my opinion, I have no direct experience with one but the 2056 I have is too small for an engine with a stock pump, I can only imagine it would be worse with an upgraded IP.
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - nilsson - 12-24-2011
Hello.
Is it this arduino controller you use?
http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
Intended to use it on a Holset 351ve, on a Cummins.
I think it will work if I take of the electronics and connect the actuator to the control arm on the turbo?
So therefore I have some questions:
Is the VNT technology on Audi / VW works like this: Idle no vacuum to the clock spring in the clock closes down the house. When the boost pressure / exhaust backpressure increases pulsar N75 valve vacuum to the clock and open up the house? Have I got it right?
Which parameters are the vnt-management working with, rpm, tps map?
Which N75 valve should you look for?
Is the N75 valve is the same for those with and those without VNT?
Is the junkyard the place to look after the N75, or is it possible to buy the N75 valve new at reasonable money?
Where can I get a actuator for reasonable money?
Where can I get the engine speed sensor, (Honeywell GT101DC)
Is there anyone else here who have tried this?
Sincerely Anders
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - tomnik - 12-24-2011
Hi,
some answers:
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Is it this arduino controller you use?yes, at least my friend tries and I'll follow him
http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Intended to use it on a Holset 351ve, on a Cummins.
I think it will work if I take of the electronics and connect the actuator to the control arm on the turbo?
the only thing here is that there is usually no adjustable limiting screw on VNTs that use electronic actuator.
Vac actuated it might not "find" precisely the stop position.
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Is the VNT technology on Audi / VW works like this: Idle no vacuum to the clock spring in the clock closes down the house. When the boost pressure / exhaust backpressure increases pulsar N75 valve vacuum to the clock and open up the house? Have I got it right?
I think it works different to your understanding:
no vac=vanes open for low boost. This is fail safe in case of a broken vac line. On idle the set boost is slightly higher than zero which causes the vanes to stay in the closed position (it tries to increase boost but without rpm and fuel it can't). The theoretically high back pressure is no issue as we are at idle but the turbo is prepared to spool up fast.
At low pedal position the set boost is also low and therefore the vac is low. By increasing the pedal position the set boost also increases and the actuator has to close the vanes to get there (vac increases).
Once the actual boost gets up to the set boost the vanes open to limit boost.
Cruising means low to mid pedal position which means the vanes are rather open (low back pressure low stress and consumption).
Generally: the system makes just the boost the driver requires and you drive with low boost and low back pressure except you "order" power with the pedal.
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Which parameters are the vnt-management working with, rpm, tps map?basically the ones mentioned + of course actual boost.
For me personally it is not quite clear why rpm.
This should be respected indirectly by actual boost and tps...
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Which N75 valve should you look for?basically the N75 are PWM operated proportional vac valves.
Is the N75 valve is the same for those with and those without VNT?
Is the junkyard the place to look after the N75, or is it possible to buy the N75 valve new at reasonable money?
Where can I get a actuator for reasonable money?
Where can I get the engine speed sensor, (Honeywell GT101DC)
N75 is VW/Audi if I am not wrong.
vnt cars are already in the junk yards, open the hood of any VW/Audi and look for them.
Prices on ebay are sometimes ridicules. In the yards you pay often about the cost of shipping only on ebay.
rpm signal can also be taken from connector "W" of the generator (if yours have the connector "W" led to outside).
Tom
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - nilsson - 12-24-2011
(12-24-2011, 09:48 AM)tomnik Hi,
some answers:
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Is it this arduino controller you use?yes, at least my friend tries and I'll follow him
http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Intended to use it on a Holset 351ve, on a Cummins.
I think it will work if I take of the electronics and connect the actuator to the control arm on the turbo?
the only thing here is that there is usually no adjustable limiting screw on VNTs that use electronic actuator.
Vac actuated it might not "find" precisely the stop position.
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Is the VNT technology on Audi / VW works like this: Idle no vacuum to the clock spring in the clock closes down the house. When the boost pressure / exhaust backpressure increases pulsar N75 valve vacuum to the clock and open up the house? Have I got it right?
I think it works different to your understanding:
no vac=vanes open for low boost. This is fail safe in case of a broken vac line. On idle the set boost is slightly higher than zero which causes the vanes to stay in the closed position (it tries to increase boost but without rpm and fuel it can't). The theoretically high back pressure is no issue as we are at idle but the turbo is prepared to spool up fast.
At low pedal position the set boost is also low and therefore the vac is low. By increasing the pedal position the set boost also increases and the actuator has to close the vanes to get there (vac increases).
Once the actual boost gets up to the set boost the vanes open to limit boost.
Cruising means low to mid pedal position which means the vanes are rather open (low back pressure low stress and consumption).
Generally: the system makes just the boost the driver requires and you drive with low boost and low back pressure except you "order" power with the pedal.
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Which parameters are the vnt-management working with, rpm, tps map?basically the ones mentioned + of course actual boost.
For me personally it is not quite clear why rpm.
This should be respected indirectly by actual boost and tps...
(12-24-2011, 09:13 AM)nilsson Which N75 valve should you look for?basically the N75 are PWM operated proportional vac valves.
Is the N75 valve is the same for those with and those without VNT?
Is the junkyard the place to look after the N75, or is it possible to buy the N75 valve new at reasonable money?
Where can I get a actuator for reasonable money?
Where can I get the engine speed sensor, (Honeywell GT101DC)
N75 is VW/Audi if I am not wrong.
vnt cars are already in the junk yards, open the hood of any VW/Audi and look for them.
Prices on ebay are sometimes ridicules. In the yards you pay often about the cost of shipping only on ebay.
rpm signal can also be taken from connector "W" of the generator (if yours have the connector "W" led to outside).
Tom
Thanks, and Merry Christmas.
Were did you and your frind bought the Arduino parts?
//nilsson
RE: Which VGT / VNT Turbo for 617 W/6.5mm MW IP - kmaser - 12-30-2011
I bought the arduino parts online from a robotics supply shop.