+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: 1000hp OM606 (/showthread.php?tid=4348)
1000hp OM606 - HaavardPYA - 02-12-2013
As the title says. Is 1000hp even possible in a 606? I do not intend to try this, just wondering. And what mods would be needed?
best regards
RE: 1000hp OM606 - lgreeley83 - 02-12-2013
Wow I have no idea. The title had my eyes wide open though.
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Simpler=Better - 02-12-2013
Same as any other build, tons of money.
Since horsepower is torque x rpm, you would probably want to get it spinning a couple thousand higher, so lighter valves/rods, stronger springs, balance everything within 0, add oi control (windage tray, etc), some crazy rods and head bolts, a custom headgasket, etc.
RE: 1000hp OM606 - HaavardPYA - 02-12-2013
(02-12-2013, 01:06 PM)Simpler=Better Same as any other build, tons of money.
Since horsepower is torque x rpm, you would probably want to get it spinning a couple thousand higher, so lighter valves/rods, stronger springs, balance everything within 0, add oi control (windage tray, etc), some crazy rods and head bolts, a custom headgasket, etc.
Aha. Im a little new to this diesel tuning.. But then its almost the same mods and parts that i have bought for my S38B36 build. Bought the engine this guy planned in his E21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Q-1569WZc.
The S38 was a little to big and heavy for his E21 but matches better in my `84 Ford Granada.
Had been fun thou to sold the S38 engine and parts and built a 606 instead! But the project is put on ice because the building where i had my garage was sold to the county to become parking house.
What do you mean by oi control, windage tray?
Håvard
(02-12-2013, 01:06 PM)Simpler=Better Same as any other build, tons of money.
Since horsepower is torque x rpm, you would probably want to get it spinning a couple thousand higher, so lighter valves/rods, stronger springs, balance everything within 0, add oi control (windage tray, etc), some crazy rods and head bolts, a custom headgasket, etc.
Aha. Im a little new to this diesel tuning.. But then its almost the same mods and parts that i have bought for my S38B36 build. Bought the engine this guy planned in his E21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Q-1569WZc.
The S38 was a little to big and heavy for his E21 but matches better in my `84 Ford Granada.
Had been fun thou to sold the S38 engine and parts and built a 606 instead! But the project is put on ice because the building where i had my garage was sold to the county to become parking house.
What do you mean by oi control, windage tray?
Håvard
RE: 1000hp OM606 - led-panzer - 02-12-2013
Custom camshafts with more lift, bigger valves, and an injector pump with bigger than 8mm elements could be added to the list
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Simpler=Better - 02-12-2013
http://www.killerbmotorsport.com/index_files/OilBaffle.htm
It keeps the oil from splashing on the crank, so that your oil doesn't get foamy when you're spinning really fast. Don't know if 606s have them stock or not
RE: 1000hp OM606 - raysorenson - 02-12-2013
I don't think air will be the problem.
The burn rate of the fuel, the capability of the injectors to deliver the fuel at the optimum duration at peak torque and beyond, and the prechambers' ability to flow would be the first issues I would think about before tackling a project like this.
RE: 1000hp OM606 - MFSuper90 - 02-12-2013
I would probably have a custom girdle made for the bottom end to keep it tied together, fly-cut pistons to combat big cam lift, and a nice set of twins, or a huge single if its a dyno queen.
Possible? Oh yeah, anything is possible with the right sized pocket book
RE: 1000hp OM606 - TheDon - 02-13-2013
might as well go with a custom made block.
RE: 1000hp OM606 - EDH_Performance - 02-13-2013
There is one finnish guy with over 800hp in om606, 275cc and hx55
I think with 350cc and a REALLY god flowing head with a REALLY strong bottom end you will get that power! It is proven that the 606 can handle 7500rpm if the bottom end is strong enough togheter with a good valvetrain
But now we are talking of 5-6 bars boost and no street driving
RE: 1000hp OM606 - HaavardPYA - 02-13-2013
7500rmp 606 would be sweat to hear roar once
RE: 1000hp OM606 - dieselmeken - 02-13-2013
(02-13-2013, 12:11 PM)EDH_Performance There is one finnish guy with over 800hp in om606, 275cc and hx55
I think with 350cc and a REALLY god flowing head with a REALLY strong bottom end you will get that power! It is proven that the 606 can handle 7500rpm if the bottom end is strong enough togheter with a good valvetrain
But now we are talking of 5-6 bars boost and no street driving
everyone have "heard of it" No one have seen it, no dyno result, no filmclip, no nothing, so for me, it dont exist.
RE: 1000hp OM606 - sassparilla_kid - 02-13-2013
I don't think 3 litres is enough displacement to make 1000hp, I don't even think with enough money it could be done. Maybe 650-700 but I think that might be pushing it a little
RE: 1000hp OM606 - mantahead - 02-13-2013
On a gasser like mitsibishi evo, nissan skyline etc you would need to use race fuel for such results as you can run more timing advance without det.(more power)
there is a race diesel as far as i know, but how much difference does it make? anyone know about race diesel?
well, we have 700bhp om606 that has dyno video.
http://youtu.be/U7tywICLsVc
anyone know what these values mean?
SHELL LM-24 Diesel Racing fuel
Properties
Typical Values
Density 830 - 835 kg/m
3
Cetane Number 60 - 65
HFRR < 350 μm
Sulphur < 10 ppm
CFPP -3°C -
Cloudpoint -3°C
RE: 1000hp OM606 - jellydonut - 02-13-2013
Racing diesel is good for improving combustion quality. It has a higher cetane value, it contains less pollutants, ash, and such, and burns cleaner. Normally, it's either a GTL or BTL fuel, which means it consists almost entirely of easy-to-burn straight chain alkanes, instead of aromatic compounds which are difficult to ignite (high octane numbers).
It's nice to have, but not strictly necessary, especially if you don't care about smoke. It's a good boost to the racing guys like Audi and Mazda, who always try to eliminate smoke from their diesel race cars due to regulations and publicity.
In gasser engines you need race fuel because of the low octane number of pump fuel. The race gas has a high octane number and costs stupid amounts of money. Luckily, with diesels, octane numbers and knocking are things we do not need to worry about.
The 3000+ bhp Cummins and Duramax engines running in dragsters and sled pullers run on regular old pump diesel.
RE: 1000hp OM606 - EDH_Performance - 02-14-2013
(02-13-2013, 08:52 PM)jellydonut Racing diesel is good for improving combustion quality. It has a higher cetane value, it contains less pollutants, ash, and such, and burns cleaner. Normally, it's either a GTL or BTL fuel, which means it consists almost entirely of easy-to-burn straight chain alkanes, instead of aromatic compounds which are difficult to ignite (high octane numbers).
It's nice to have, but not strictly necessary, especially if you don't care about smoke. It's a good boost to the racing guys like Audi and Mazda, who always try to eliminate smoke from their diesel race cars due to regulations and publicity.
In gasser engines you need race fuel because of the low octane number of pump fuel. The race gas has a high octane number and costs stupid amounts of money. Luckily, with diesels, octane numbers and knocking are things we do not need to worry about.
The 3000+ bhp Cummins and Duramax engines running in dragsters and sled pullers run on regular old pump diesel.
If they can build 3000hp+ on a old lump of steel (5.9 cummins), there is no problem to make 1500hp om606 with good enough internals!
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Volker407 - 02-14-2013
(02-13-2013, 04:40 PM)mantahead anyone know what these values mean?
SHELL LM-24 Diesel Racing fuel
Typical Values
Density 830 - 835 kg/m
3
Cetane Number 60 - 65
HFRR < 350 μm
Sulphur < 10 ppm
CFPP -3°C -
Cloudpoint -3°C
Density: average
Sulphur: very low compared to what the OM606 was designed for, nowadays almost standard
HFRR: Lubrication ability, < 350µm is average
CFPP: at which temperature a defined test filter starts to reduce flow
Cloudpoint: at which temperature does the paraffin start to extrude out of the dieselfuel, -3°C is average for summer diesel
Cetane (60-65) is a little higher than standard diesel (~50-55).
But beware, not all Mercedes prechamber engines like racing diesel fuel. It might even run worse with racing diesel than with standard diesel.
Gruß
Volker
RE: 1000hp OM606 - mantahead - 02-14-2013
cheers guys,
this time next year we will be wondering how to get over 1000bhp
RE: 1000hp OM606 - jellydonut - 02-14-2013
(02-14-2013, 10:59 AM)EDH_Performance(02-13-2013, 08:52 PM)jellydonut Racing diesel is good for improving combustion quality. It has a higher cetane value, it contains less pollutants, ash, and such, and burns cleaner. Normally, it's either a GTL or BTL fuel, which means it consists almost entirely of easy-to-burn straight chain alkanes, instead of aromatic compounds which are difficult to ignite (high octane numbers).
It's nice to have, but not strictly necessary, especially if you don't care about smoke. It's a good boost to the racing guys like Audi and Mazda, who always try to eliminate smoke from their diesel race cars due to regulations and publicity.
In gasser engines you need race fuel because of the low octane number of pump fuel. The race gas has a high octane number and costs stupid amounts of money. Luckily, with diesels, octane numbers and knocking are things we do not need to worry about.
The 3000+ bhp Cummins and Duramax engines running in dragsters and sled pullers run on regular old pump diesel.
If they can build 3000hp+ on a old lump of steel (5.9 cummins), there is no problem to make 1500hp om606 with good enough internals!
These engines are not streetable at all, though. The blocks are filled for rigidity, they do not use cooling water except in some cases the head is cooled. They require a massive dose of ether (starting gas) to even start in the first place due to the low compression.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohA4QAVSZlw
Probably possible, but why would you want to create something that impractical? :p
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Turbo - 02-15-2013
Herlevi pump, full used shall be able to put out something like 800 that is enough for me and my guesses is that Jemu is working on something similar
5-6 bars of boost is easy if you know what you are doing some guys run 18 bars of boost or higher in tractor pulling, and Herlevi do some tractor pulling as you know
RE: 1000hp OM606 - mantahead - 02-15-2013
a friend of mine in canada has made over 450bhp with a 1.9tdi golf.
his head had to be made from scratch by his dad, using extra studs to keep it down. it starts on ether also. runs over 80psi boost.
shows what can be done, but not good for a daily driver for most people.
it runs a cummins A pump.
http://youtu.be/JqL5r5KraZU
http://youtu.be/zYYY0VteK1Q
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Turbo - 02-17-2013
Mantahead is that andy2 on www.tdiclub.com?
(02-15-2013, 05:57 PM)mantahead a friend of mine in canada has made over 450bhp with a 1.9tdi golf.
his head had to be made from scratch by his dad, using extra studs to keep it down. it starts on ether also. runs over 80psi boost.
shows what can be done, but not good for a daily driver for most people.
it runs a cummins A pump.
http://youtu.be/JqL5r5KraZU
http://youtu.be/zYYY0VteK1Q
RE: 1000hp OM606 - majesty78 - 02-17-2013
Yes :-)
RE: 1000hp OM606 - mantahead - 02-17-2013
yea,
his father is from northern ireland,(same town) he was up looking at my merc last time he was home. he moved to canada some years ago.
the lengths they have went to with that engine is amazing. Imagine they had started with a om606......
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Turbo - 02-17-2013
yes I have read all about his projekt and many other thing at www.tdiclub.com great guy and project
(02-17-2013, 04:58 PM)mantahead yea,
his father is from northern ireland,(same town) he was up looking at my merc last time he was home. he moved to canada some years ago.
the lengths they have went to with that engine is amazing. Imagine they had started with a om606......
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Ksteen2 - 02-20-2013
I don't doubt that it is possible...
750bhp merchs are on youtube with dyno nmbr's..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbShuHhQq6k
not dyno vid, I coulden't find it right now..
I think it's possibel with superfloyd 8,5mm elements and a setup like HX40-HX80 or HX60 :p
it might flow enough air :p
would be cool if some one made one :p
RE: 1000hp OM606 - Turbo - 02-20-2013
the one video you refer to on youtube was shadowmaker invole and the oilpump got bad cavitationed at that run... read at www.tdiclub.com
(02-20-2013, 08:30 AM)Ksteen2 I don't doubt that it is possible...
750bhp merchs are on youtube with dyno nmbr's..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbShuHhQq6k
not dyno vid, I coulden't find it right now..
I think it's possibel with superfloyd 8,5mm elements and a setup like HX40-HX80 or HX60 :p
it might flow enough air :p
would be cool if some one made one :p