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+--- Thread: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 (/showthread.php?tid=4578)
Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - snowbrd84 - 05-15-2013
I put an OM617 out of an 85 300sd into my 89 Jeep Wrangler. I just got done installing some new Monark nozzles and I also put in a very nice digital pyro gauge. I tapped the exhaust manifold right in the center in front of the turbo flange. The thing is pretty accurate, when I turn the key on, the pyro gauge almost perfectly reads the ambient outside air temp...
I drove it around and floored on the highway, it would hit upwards of 1100f before i backed off... My boost gauge hits 10psi before the wastegate opens.
So I bought a manual boost controller and mounted it in the cab with the hoses running into the engine bay and connecting to a safety blowoff valve and then back to the turbo and intake. I turned it up a bit and randomely got exactly what I wanted to try out, 14psi boost before the wastegate opens. EGTs are below 1100 too. The ALDA is also removed BTW.
So I was driving it around yesterday testing and I pull up to a traffic light. After sitting for a minute, I notice a lot of white smoke coming out the exhaust. It seemed to be idling fine. I got going again and when I would floor it, it would go, but it seemed like it lost some power... I went home, and parked in my driveway, no smoke, nothing, I couldnt get it to do it again...
What are the same boost limits and EGTs for this engine? And anyone have any clue what may have happened to get that white smoke at idle??
One other note is that after sitting overnight, I start the engine, it fires right up, but then it dies 5 seconds later and it is very very hard to get it started again, must pump the pedal for like 20 seconds cranking. But then once its going, it has no issues.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Simpler=Better - 05-15-2013
Your limit for EGT is 1250 unlimited, above that 30 seconds max. I'd say keep it under 1100F is a good way to have a little bit of a safety net. The digital gauges are cool, on hot summer days my exhaust would never cool below 180* in the parking lot at work
No ALDA boost requirement is estimated at 12-14psi, it depends on the car. You're fine at 14, at worst you're only wasting 2psi. Rumor has it that rods bend once you get up to 28psi. Remember, the static compresson on this beast is 22.5:1
No idea on the smoke.
For the hard starts you're getting air in the lines somehow. Install tygon(mcmastercarr.com) or lawnmower clear fuel lines up near the IP to help you find the air leak. Some people have had luck with the cheapo hardware store vinyl tubing, it's up to you what to use. At $1/foot Tygon isn't bad at all-plus that gives you an excuse to buy methanol nozzles from mcmaster
swing by balamer later this summer, I have a stash of parts I would love to sell you
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - MFSuper90 - 05-15-2013
(05-15-2013, 02:54 PM)Simpler=Better Your limit for EGT is 1250 unlimited, above that 30 seconds max. I'd say keep it under 1100F is a good way to have a little bit of a safety net. The digital gauges are cool, on hot summer days my exhaust would never cool below 180* in the parking lot at work
No ALDA boost requirement is estimated at 12-14psi, it depends on the car. You're fine at 14, at worst you're only wasting 2psi. Rumor has it that rods bend once you get up to 28psi. Remember, the static compresson on this beast is 22.5:1
No idea on the smoke.
For the hard starts you're getting air in the lines somehow. Install tygon(mcmastercarr.com) or lawnmower clear fuel lines up near the IP to help you find the air leak. Some people have had luck with the cheapo hardware store vinyl tubing, it's up to you what to use. At $1/foot Tygon isn't bad at all-plus that gives you an excuse to buy methanol nozzles from mcmaster
swing by balamer later this summer, I have a stash of parts I would love to sell you
I never bent a rod....
I let off at 1000F. Post turbo
but it'll only get that high if i limit boost to 12psi. EGT's slow wayy down at 15-17 psi.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - raysorenson - 05-16-2013
Re: white smoke and stalling, check lift pump pressure, verify fuel filters aren't clogged.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Austincarnut - 04-21-2017
(05-15-2013, 09:21 PM)MFSuper90how do you regulate boost pressure?(05-15-2013, 02:54 PM)Simpler=Better Your limit for EGT is 1250 unlimited, above that 30 seconds max. I'd say keep it under 1100F is a good way to have a little bit of a safety net. The digital gauges are cool, on hot summer days my exhaust would never cool below 180* in the parking lot at work
No ALDA boost requirement is estimated at 12-14psi, it depends on the car. You're fine at 14, at worst you're only wasting 2psi. Rumor has it that rods bend once you get up to 28psi. Remember, the static compresson on this beast is 22.5:1
No idea on the smoke.
For the hard starts you're getting air in the lines somehow. Install tygon(mcmastercarr.com) or lawnmower clear fuel lines up near the IP to help you find the air leak. Some people have had luck with the cheapo hardware store vinyl tubing, it's up to you what to use. At $1/foot Tygon isn't bad at all-plus that gives you an excuse to buy methanol nozzles from mcmaster
swing by balamer later this summer, I have a stash of parts I would love to sell you
I never bent a rod....
I let off at 1000F. Post turbo
but it'll only get that high if i limit boost to 12psi. EGT's slow wayy down at 15-17 psi.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - R-3350 - 04-22-2017
at around over two BAR (~30psi) WITH FUELING TO MATCH the rods will let go. i have run over 30 on my engine briefly due to waste gate plumbing issues however with the stock mw pump you cant push enough fuel to use more than ~14 psi of boost. there is noticeably less power over 14 psi on my car with a maxed out stock pump. as for the egt limits the rule of thumb of 1250*F is actually based off of direct injected cummins engines. stock Mercedes recommends a continuous turbine inlet temp of less than 1450*F. that being said the cooler you can run the better it is for your engine.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 04-22-2017
Im wondering where this idea of boost over 2 bar is dangerous.
Im using a 7.5mm dieselmeken pump set at around 140cc and a borgwarner s200g that boosts 2.5 bar (~36 psi)
I dont have any egt gauge so no clue what the egt's are.
Just wanted to say that my rods are not bent (yet???) after more than 2 years of daily driving
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - led-panzer - 04-22-2017
We've heard that figure for years but I haven't seen anyone actually bend a rod from high boost.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - barrote - 04-22-2017
A stupid question, how does a bent rod looks like?
I can't see how a engine can bent the rods ... i have seen them sticking out broken not bent....
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - NZScott - 04-23-2017
Yes well I've learnt boost is a very "fluid" measurement, how efficient is the turbo, how efficient is the intercooler (if there is one), fuel/air ratio, EGTs, time spent at those conditions, etc all plays into it
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - R-3350 - 04-23-2017
i have seen at least two people who have blown engines with too much boost. mind you i wouldn't call it too much boost as much as too much power for the rods. 2 bar of boost from an efficient turbo at low rpm with all the fuel you can burn with it to match may cause failure. but so can over revving the engine. the pistons reach 25 meters per second peak velocity at 5000 rpm in a 617 with the stroke of 92.4mm and R/S ratio of 1.61. 25 mps is the rule of thumb for maximum rpm for longevity.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 04-28-2017
About yesterday.....
Going uphill, overtaking another car accelerating from 70 mph to about 100-105 mph Boosting **More** than 36 psi ( gauge only measures 36)
Result?
Blown headgasket! Will be taking a closer look tomorrow. Pics will be posted.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Evenglass - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 02:35 PM)Keino About yesterday.....Time for studs! I'm studding mine now and will set my wastegate at 28psi.
Going uphill, overtaking another car accelerating from 70 mph to about 100-105 mph Boosting **More** than 36 psi ( gauge only measures 36)
Result?
Blown headgasket! Will be taking a closer look tomorrow. Pics will be posted.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - scrubs - 04-28-2017
You tube
"Diesel dyno complications"
Too much boost n fuel
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 04-29-2017
Alright, so the head has been pulled.
![[Image: 2nq4ehi.jpg]](http://i68.tinypic.com/2nq4ehi.jpg)
After head was removed it was clear that cyl #3 was the one combusting water.
![[Image: 2jcfvye.jpg]](http://i65.tinypic.com/2jcfvye.jpg)
And the reason where/why the headgasket broke has been identified aswell.
![[Image: v9jb6.jpg]](http://i68.tinypic.com/v9jb6.jpg)
So I got this bigass hole in my wastegate! Looks almost as it has melted.
![[Image: 154btxi.jpg]](http://i67.tinypic.com/154btxi.jpg)
Im not gonna say too much before I have started the engine with a new headgasket and run it.
But it looks like nothing has been damaged except the gasket itself.
So going uphill at 100-105 mph around 3500 rpm with 140-150cc fuel and no boost restriction. Without doubt I have been going 43psi + the rest is just to fantasise about.
Should this engine run like it did before this incident the cred goes to the engineers in Germany a long time ago.
Will update when I know more.
In the meantime I got some stuff to clean from all the radiator fluid that was spray all over the enginebay.
![[Image: 2ewegqv.jpg]](http://i68.tinypic.com/2ewegqv.jpg)
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - awsrock - 04-29-2017
For what it's worth, my same turbo came with a bad actuator. No hole though. I am just using a crappy eBay one at the moment.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - NZScott - 04-29-2017
Going for a copper gasket or a stock one again?
Yanks love putting ARP studs in everything but still don't see why our engines need them
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - R-3350 - 04-29-2017
way i see it is for the price its cheap insurance. i am looking at new rods, modified pistons, copper HG, and studs for the head and mains. all this seems extreme however i now have a goal of over 500 hp at the crank and being able to rev over 6K all while maintaining some kind of reliability. theres a lot more i have planned to do including multiple redundant cooling systems and aero work on the body. while these engines are built amazingly tough they to fail sooner with much more power going through them and i want something that still can be daily driven without worrying about breaking it while being face meltingly fast.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 04-30-2017
I will be using a standard headgasket.
I am convinced I have a solid and safe setup. (However no boost restriction would kill every single engine out there
) New wastegate has been ordered. I still need to find out why this one broke however.
Hopefully I will be able to start the engine tomorrow.
Updates are to come.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Simpler=Better - 05-01-2017
Do you have an exhaust pressure gauge? They're easy to install
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 05-02-2017
(05-01-2017, 09:20 AM)Simpler=Better Do you have an exhaust pressure gauge? They're easy to install
Hi.
No I don't. Thats not the same as an EGT gauge?
Started the engine and it seems to run well!
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Austincarnut - 05-02-2017
(04-30-2017, 03:40 PM)Keino I will be using a standard headgasket.
I am convinced I have a solid and safe setup. (However no boost restriction would kill every single engine out there
New wastegate has been ordered. I still need to find out why this one broke however.
Hopefully I will be able to start the engine tomorrow.
Updates are to come.
What are you using for a waste gate and how high are you setting it?
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 05-03-2017
(05-02-2017, 06:18 PM)Austincarnut What are you using for a waste gate and how high are you setting it?
I am using the internal wastegate that the BW turbo came with. (the part that broke, so I ordered a new one)
But in between the wg and compressorhousing im using "dawes device" very simple to manually adjust just how much boost you want.
The wastegate that broke would open at 1.7 bar (24-25psi) and I wanted some more since I still had some blacksmoke at full throttle
I was thinking of setting it at 2.3 bar for now (33-34psi)
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - NZScott - 05-04-2017
Would be nice to know a 617 can be reliable at that boost
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 05-04-2017
(05-04-2017, 01:34 AM)NZScott Would be nice to know a 617 can be reliable at that boost
I totally understand you
But as I stated earlier I've been boosting 2.4-2.5 bar'ish for like 2 years without any problems.
The engine im using is 617.952 (Original turbodiesel) And has been renovated before usage, head been into shop, valves replaced, new cylinder linings/pistons.
However a broken wastegate changes things....
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Petar - 05-04-2017
@Keino You said you have new pistons ? How hard were they to get, and what was the price ? I've heard that they are quite expensive.
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - NZScott - 05-05-2017
(05-04-2017, 09:30 AM)Keino(05-04-2017, 01:34 AM)NZScott Would be nice to know a 617 can be reliable at that boost
I totally understand you
But as I stated earlier I've been boosting 2.4-2.5 bar'ish for like 2 years without any problems.
The engine im using is 617.952 (Original turbodiesel) And has been renovated before usage, head been into shop, valves replaced, new cylinder linings/pistons.
However a broken wastegate changes things....
True, forgot that...you even said your NA conversion handled it too (just doesn't like getting hot)
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Simpler=Better - 05-05-2017
(05-04-2017, 03:43 PM)Petar @Keino You said you have new pistons ? How hard were they to get, and what was the price ? I've heard that they are quite expensive.
I know a guy with 5 NOS OM617 pistons, still in the box, that could be for sale
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 05-05-2017
(05-05-2017, 12:03 AM)NZScott True, forgot that...you even said your NA conversion handled it too (just doesn't like getting hot)
That is correct. It started evacuating water from the radiator. Boosted around 2 bar with it.
The turbo was smaller tho. And only 6mm pump.
(05-04-2017, 03:43 PM)Petar @Keino You said you have new pistons ? How hard were they to get, and what was the price ? I've heard that they are quite expensive.
At the time it wasnt hard to get them, Question was only where I would get them cheapest. Price was aprox 2250 USD
The turbopistons are way more expensive than regular om617 pistons....
RE: Safe Boost/EGTs for an OM617 - Keino - 05-08-2017
So it seems like it was just the headgasket giving up. Engine runs just as well as it did before this little incident.
![[Image: 25kprlz.jpg]](http://i63.tinypic.com/25kprlz.jpg)