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+--- Thread: OM606 water methanol?? (/showthread.php?tid=4865)
OM606 water methanol?? - ravenxm - 09-02-2013
Hi people need an advise
i"m finishing to build an om606 with k27turbo and dieselmekken FP
i have in my backyard an AEM watermethanol kit
should i put it on my merc or its useless
if answer is yess how big nozzle should be
and hot much water should i put into methanol
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - larsalan - 09-02-2013
You could probably spray a lot, like 5gpm nozzle. Or, do less to be safer. The mixture they say not to exceed 50% methanol.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - ravenxm - 09-03-2013
larsan TNX
they say,,,,,,who they????
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - larsalan - 09-03-2013
The people who sell the pumps and nozzles say that. I have sprayed just pure water into a 617 with a 2gpm nozzle and a 150psi pump. 100% water there is no discernible performance difference. But even at a low concentration of methanol I could feel it come on. Say maybe 10% or 15% methanol and I could feel the power. That system for me truly smoothed out the way the motor was running.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - ravenxm - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 06:49 AM)larsalan The people who sell the pumps and nozzles say that. I have sprayed just pure water into a 617 with a 2gpm nozzle and a 150psi pump. 100% water there is no discernible performance difference. But even at a low concentration of methanol I could feel it come on. Say maybe 10% or 15% methanol and I could feel the power. That system for me truly smoothed out the way the motor was running.
ok but if i spray methanol i need to make an injection earlyer??
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - Simpler=Better - 09-03-2013
Over 50% alcoholr is flammable, and can pre-ignite (detonate, knock, etc.) which causes damage to the engine. I ran 60% once and it sounded like my car was going to explode.
If you mix more water than alcohol the alcohol will not ignite until the diesel has ignited.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - mantahead - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 01:32 PM)Simpler=Better Over 50% alcoholr is flammable, and can pre-ignite (detonate, knock, etc.) which causes damage to the engine. I ran 60% once and it sounded like my car was going to explode.
If you mix more water than alcohol the alcohol will not ignite until the diesel has ignited.
hi,
do you know how much your EGT's dropped when using it?
(09-03-2013, 01:32 PM)Simpler=Better Over 50% alcoholr is flammable, and can pre-ignite (detonate, knock, etc.) which causes damage to the engine. I ran 60% once and it sounded like my car was going to explode.
If you mix more water than alcohol the alcohol will not ignite until the diesel has ignited.
hi,
do you know how much your EGT's dropped when using it?
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - larsalan - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 12:25 PM)ravenxm ok but if i spray methanol i need to make an injection earlyer??
What do you mean? Are you talking about the IP timing? Or, are you asking where the nozzle for the methanol/water should be located?
The mixture of water/alcohol is up to you. In my opinion you should have the nozzle after the turbo. After the intercooler if exists. And then nozzle. Using a check valve like this
https://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Water-Injection-Check-Valve/c31/index.html
And a hobbs switch as well to protect against unintentional injection.
I wouldn't inject fluid into the intake manifold until at least some kind of boost is there. I would say my absolute low for that would be 5-6psi.
If you're asking about IP timing that is a whole other thing that I couldn't say how the alcohol will effect that.
I will still highly recommend you go through the installation, you'll love it I know it.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - Simpler=Better - 09-03-2013
I always ran alcohol so I saw higher temperatures as the alcohol burned. Water alone might help? I don't know for sure
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - Simpler=Better - 09-05-2013
Somewhat related:
I'm running a passive water "suction" system on my naturally aspirated gas truck. It's got ~200k on the clock, has an EGR and pcv, has had injector issues, so it's safe to say there's probably plenty of crap in the combustion chambers.
I have a vac line hooked up to the intake, going back into the cabin, with a 0.020" restriction installed at the cabin-end of the vac line.
Once the truck is up to temp and I'm cruising on the highway the vac line (with 0.020" restriction) goes into a water bottle, sucking a small amount of water into the intake. I use up around 500ml in a 15 mile drive, so a total of 1L a day. The engine temp gauge goes from "normal" to "cool" when I start running water. If my RPM goes below 2k it sucks too much and starts to stall, so it's a highway-only setup.
So far I "feel" a smoother idle when it's not rucking water. No power increases, and I've only had it on a few days. I'll report back at the end of this fuel tank on mileage. Normal mileage is 23-25mpg, driving like I'm being shot at.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - larsalan - 09-05-2013
(09-05-2013, 11:10 AM)Simpler=Better ... driving like I'm being shot at.
Well, Baltimore you'd just better assume shots are coming sooner rather than later
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - JarrusJenkins - 09-06-2013
Ive never used WM injection on an OM606 but have used it on a Peugeot XUD9TE, the results were pretty good and i was using 100% water at first...
Something to note i was using thr standard intercooler and standard turbo and running about 8 psi over stock, so i guess it was good for me because i didnt have a very efficient intercooler, when i did upgrade the intercooler i found that with 100% water the difference was little to none but with some meth in about 30% mix then there was a definate increase in power,
I was using a 3gph nozzle and i believe that the pump was set at 250 psi, its a DevilsOwn kit and it used just a boost switch rather than a progressive controller, i had it set at 15psi~ and at that point it gives 100% so it works in an 'all or nothing' kind of way...
So in short, if you already have an efficient intercooler then running just water is kind of pointless, mix a meths in at anywhere between 30-50% and you will notice a difference..
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - MFSuper90 - 09-06-2013
We run w/m on our pulling tractor and it makes a crazy difference in power. We just run a Hobbs switch to turn on the pump. One 12 one 14gph nozzle, it has a 330cc pump, with no intercooler, 354cu in.
I recommend running a some sort of check valve so it can't put water in the engine when left sitting.
Devils own makes a good DiY kit
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - JarrusJenkins - 09-07-2013
(09-06-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 We run w/m on our pulling tractor and it makes a crazy difference in power. We just run a Hobbs switch to turn on the pump. One 12 one 14gph nozzle, it has a 330cc pump, with no intercooler, 354cu in.
I recommend running a some sort of check valve so it can't put water in the engine when left sitting.
Devils own makes a good DiY kit
Yeah my DevilsOwn had a check valve, i had it close to the nozzle holder (like 10 mm down the line) closer the better, the quicker it starts spraying...
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - MFSuper90 - 09-07-2013
We ordered a set of 100psi stainless check valves so its more of a start/stop spray, no dribbling. It use to shoot a 12-18" flame out the stack, the water killed the flame. Which is a good thing and gave us considerably more power. We run 50% washer fluid and 50% water. So it cuts it to about 25% methanol and 75% water.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - JarrusJenkins - 09-08-2013
Must be some high EGTs then if your shooting flames that big..
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - mantahead - 09-12-2013
i have a nitrous kit, can it be adapted for water methanol, i saw a water methanol kit somewhere that had no pump, just a bottle.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - larsalan - 09-12-2013
wtf? What would that do? No pump. Sounds about as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - MFSuper90 - 09-12-2013
(09-08-2013, 07:07 AM)JarrusJenkins Must be some high EGTs then if your shooting flames that big..
Yeah, a little bit haha
And manta head, no, because nitrous is pressurized and you have to have a pump to pressurize water to make it atomize correctly.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - Simpler=Better - 09-13-2013
Unless you hillbilly it on a NA gasser like me, you need a pump. With no pump there is no performance gain.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - mantahead - 09-13-2013
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&ved=0CFsQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alcoholinjectionsystems.com%2Fa94%2FNew-Pumpless-Water-Methanol-Injection-Systems---Replace-Pump-With-Nitrous-Or-C02%2Farticle_info.html&ei=SpEzUp2wOc_G7AbR_oA4&usg=AFQjCNG5h7LECr-BOyRbpNwlixKNlvhZDw&sig2=qarQt5KXWcLD169UNfEHHg
hi,
the bottle is pressurised.
was wondering what the bottle was pressurised with, seems to be nos or co2.
is this no good??
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - MFSuper90 - 09-13-2013
That would probably work, besides having to fill the bottle up every time and having something pressurized in your vehicle.
Might as well use Nitrous
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - Tmadia - 09-13-2013
The pumpless ones work by running a hose from the post-turbo manifold to the tank, which then pressurizes the tank and squirts in methanol pre-turbo. It works and it is proportional to boost, which is nice.
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - MFSuper90 - 09-14-2013
There's no way their is enough pressure post turbo to atomize correctly, plus it's be hot?
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - JarrusJenkins - 09-14-2013
I suppose doing it this way(pressurised bottle and injecting pre turbo) it would be ok but nowhere near as effective as a proper pump,
and besides, you couldn't inject it like this after the turbo because for the pressure ratio between the liquid and the turbocharged air, both would be the same and the water wouldn't flow....
RE: OM606 water methanol?? - MFSuper90 - 09-14-2013
(09-14-2013, 09:01 AM)JarrusJenkins I suppose doing it this way(pressurised bottle and injecting pre turbo) it would be ok but nowhere near as effective as a proper pump,
and besides, you couldn't inject it like this after the turbo because for the pressure ratio between the liquid and the turbocharged air, both would be the same and the water wouldn't flow....
The pressurized notorious bottle system would work post turbo, those bottles are like 3000psi If I recall correctly, I have never seen or heard of it done though