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+--- Thread: Simple compound setup (/showthread.php?tid=5880)
Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 09-29-2014
Has anyone made a simple compound setup with the stock manifold and turbo on a 603? Im coming to grips with the fact that my ebay turbo just wont give me the power I want and I dont know if I should just put an HX35 instead.
RE: Simple compound setup - Hario' - 09-30-2014
Yeah! Fabricate something like this out the back of the OEM turbo/manifold..
![[Image: compoundpiggybackdiagram.jpg]](http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/Mercedes_Power/media/compoundpiggybackdiagram.jpg.html)
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 09-30-2014
Haha I get the idea. Just wondering who has experience with it.
RE: Simple compound setup - starynovy - 09-30-2014
You mean to paralel them? More common is to use two smaller turbos for each 3 of 6 cillinder engine. Its called twin turbo, as they are the same. And it gives better results than one big turbo in means of spool-up time and total power. Also it is cheaper, you can use some stock turbos of which there are lying piles for a buck.
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 09-30-2014
No we are not talking about parrelleling them. We are talking about compounding. Google it and learn some stuff. Way better pressure ratios having 2 turbos do half the work.
RE: Simple compound setup - starynovy - 09-30-2014
Yes I know what it is, no worries. I just miss interpreted that painting. My bad.
RE: Simple compound setup - Hario' - 10-01-2014
I'm touched you called it a painting..
RE: Simple compound setup - F.R.A.S - 10-01-2014
Problem is wastegate.
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 08:08 AM)F.R.A.S Problem is wastegate.
Need more structure to sentance? Problem with what?
(10-01-2014, 07:01 AM)Hario I'm touched you called it a painting..
RE: Simple compound setup - Edian727 - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 08:45 AM)TurboTim [quote='F.R.A.S' pid='66715' dateline='1412168895']
Problem is wastegate.
Need more structure to sentance? Problem with what?
lol, i think thats because of swedish.
most compound set ups have a lot of wastegate flow around 1st turbo. problem is if you dont with all the fuel and rpms your exhaust manifold pressure will get out of control real fast.
RE: Simple compound setup - Duncansport - 10-01-2014
There should be a sticky for members who have built a compound and found it to actually work better then a properly sized modern turbo. This seems to come up a lot on this forum..
RE: Simple compound setup - Hario' - 10-01-2014
Yes to all, I basically drew how to fit an LP turbo on to compound the stock KKK on original manifold (HX35 fits directly above and forward a bit), as per my painting..
This is for a Euro OM605 so I will be using the EGR port on top of the manifold for a wastegate fitting - 28mm ID IIRC, to bypass the HP turbo, and if EMP still creeps then grind / flow the OEM KKK internal wastegate flapper and port.
![[Image: compoundkkk-hx35.jpg]](http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/Mercedes_Power/media/compoundkkk-hx35.jpg.html)
I am a cheap-skate, you guys should probably fabricate a manifold..
RE: Simple compound setup - Turbo - 10-01-2014
it is also depending on what you want the turbochargers to do, some more costly turbos can do quite much more than old ones, and compressor bypass and use of inter cooler after cooler have some impact of the design
Look at some modern diesel like BMW535d and you get some ideas
If you have borg warner or garret you can simulate the performance in match boot for teaching purpose witch can be quite amusing if you know some basics
(10-01-2014, 10:37 AM)Hario Yes to all, I basically drew how to fit an LP turbo on to compound the stock KKK on original manifold (HX35 fits directly above and forward a bit), as per my painting..
This is for a Euro OM605 so I will be using the EGR port on top of the manifold for a wastegate fitting - 28mm ID IIRC, to bypass the HP turbo, and if EMP still creeps then grind / flow the OEM KKK internal wastegate flapper and port.
I am a cheap-skate, you guys should probably fabricate a manifold..
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 10-01-2014
I dont know if anyone actually saw my signature but I have a gas motor thats setup compound on a 99 Volvo V70R. So I do have direct expererience at least in gas as fuel. At best I would say it does spool faster then just the 35R that I originally had on the car but not by much. You can get higher boost at lower RPM's but it take longer to build that so you are only getting boost at lower RPM's in higher gears loaded up. I also know that the car takes almost 40psi of boost to make the same power as the GT35R did at 25psi.
RE: Simple compound setup - [486] - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 06:45 PM)TurboTim I dont know if anyone actually saw my signature but I have a gas motor thats setup compound on a 99 Volvo V70R. So I do have direct expererience at least in gas as fuel. At best I would say it does spool faster then just the 35R that I originally had on the car but not by much. You can get higher boost at lower RPM's but it take longer to build that so you are only getting boost at lower RPM's in higher gears loaded up. I also know that the car takes almost 40psi of boost to make the same power as the GT35R did at 25psi.Is there just that much more backpressure or something? If it develops more pressure at the intake it should logically make more power, unless something else is screwing up the efficiency.
As an aside, interesting to see someone local on here.
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 10-02-2014
Yeah I would guess its a backpressure thing. I have 3 wastegates so I am sure I could keep tweaking it and get it better but I have just left it at good enough. I wouldnt dare tell the people on the Volvo forums that it doesn't work anything less then perfect. I wanna convert it to supercharger and turbocharging just have not gotten around to doing it yet. It is a neat vehicle that you hear 2 turbos spooling and that I can get 25psi by 2k but in the end it was more a good learning lesson then a win all race car.
Yeah we should meetup sometime. My shop is in NE Minneapolis if you are ever in the area.
RE: Simple compound setup - starynovy - 10-02-2014
(10-01-2014, 07:01 AM)Hario I'm touched you called it a painting..
My deepest apologies kind sir, as I am non-native speaker I used inappropriate word.
RE: Simple compound setup - CRD4x4 - 10-02-2014
Your English was near perfect. You said nothing wrong.
I think it was meant as a compliment.
(10-02-2014, 04:48 PM)starynovy(10-01-2014, 07:01 AM)Hario I'm touched you called it a painting..
My deepest apologies kind sir, as I am non-native speaker I used inappropriate word.
RE: Simple compound setup - [486] - 10-04-2014
(10-02-2014, 06:01 AM)TurboTim Yeah I would guess its a backpressure thing. I have 3 wastegates so I am sure I could keep tweaking it and get it better but I have just left it at good enough.Got gauges on the different pressure stages? All of them, exhaust manifold pressure, interstage exhaust pressure, intake pressure, and interstage pressure. Even just shitty air pressure gauges you got from Amble's for next to nothing.
Gotta see what the 'gates and compressors are doing to be able to do anything other than make fun woosh noises.
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 10-04-2014
Ya know the car runs so good and overall power has been good so I just have not cared too much. In the winter when it starts snowing I will play with it but now it just sits.
RE: Simple compound setup - Hario' - 10-06-2014
That's interesting, maybe there is a charge heat problem, one stage running inefficiently in the map? Need gauges to work out the PR's of each stage and adjust gates so they're both in the sweet spot(s).
Yes it was a compliment! Usually my engineering drawings get called engineering pictures by my friends..
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 10-06-2014
I just think for you to really be using a compond setup you need to be doing bigger boost numbers to make it worth it like where a bigger turbo wont be able to boost quick enough but a compound setup will boost quick enough but yet still be as efficent as the bigger turbo on its own would be. Im just only pushing 35psi and could probably do it just as efficent out of a bigger turbo.
RE: Simple compound setup - Turbo - 10-07-2014
are you speaking compound or sequential?
look at
http://65.110.12.166/showthread.php?t=397636
(10-06-2014, 09:02 PM)TurboTim I just think for you to really be using a compond setup you need to be doing bigger boost numbers to make it worth it like where a bigger turbo wont be able to boost quick enough but a compound setup will boost quick enough but yet still be as efficent as the bigger turbo on its own would be. Im just only pushing 35psi and could probably do it just as efficent out of a bigger turbo.
RE: Simple compound setup - TurboTim - 10-07-2014
My setup is compound. I have thought about making a sequential.