Injection timing, the high pressure method
Injection timing, the high pressure method
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outsi.../60006.pdf
As far as i can see it is similar to the drip method, but instead high fuel pressure forces the delivery valve open instead of removing it, which simplifies the process.
Since the equipment to do this is probably either unavailble or ridiculously expensive what about making your own ??
A high pressure pump could be made from an old bottle jack just like the injector nozzle tester.
The question is how to close off the return line ? The document specifies a special tool for that.
Also how much pressure is required to open the delivery valve ??
Page 34 of this document explains the high pressure ip timing method
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outsi.../60006.pdf
As far as i can see it is similar to the drip method, but instead high fuel pressure forces the delivery valve open instead of removing it, which simplifies the process.
Since the equipment to do this is probably either unavailble or ridiculously expensive what about making your own ??
A high pressure pump could be made from an old bottle jack just like the injector nozzle tester.
The question is how to close off the return line ? The document specifies a special tool for that.
Also how much pressure is required to open the delivery valve ??
I bought one of the factory RIV testers with the A/B lights. It has proved useful for getting the timing spot on. Personally, I like the timing light adapter idea better. It tells you when the injection really happens when the engine is running, and it can be used to test the timing advance mechanism.
Seems like a painful process. They make diesel timing light adapters that sense the pressure spike in the metal tubes and, in turn, trigger a regular stroboscopic light. I haven't used one, but this seems like a foolproof solution.
I bought one of the factory RIV testers with the A/B lights. It has proved useful for getting the timing spot on. Personally, I like the timing light adapter idea better. It tells you when the injection really happens when the engine is running, and it can be used to test the timing advance mechanism.
raysorenson
07-27-2015, 10:51 PM #3can't you just time by ear. If you get nailing, just retard until it's gone?
(07-27-2015, 09:33 PM)AlanMcR Seems like a painful process. They make diesel timing light adapters that sense the pressure spike in the metal tubes and, in turn, trigger a regular stroboscopic light. I haven't used one, but this seems like a foolproof solution.But it's still much less hasle than drip timing. BTW i would use this for OM61X engines since those don't have a locking pin for the pump. Would also work with probably every single inline pump that exists.
I bought one of the factory RIV testers with the A/B lights. It has proved useful for getting the timing spot on. Personally, I like the timing light adapter idea better. It tells you when the injection really happens when the engine is running, and it can be used to test the timing advance mechanism.
The diesel timing light adapter sounds expensive ??
(07-27-2015, 10:51 PM)raysorenson can't you just time by ear. If you get nailing, just retard until it's gone?
Yes you can but it's quite a hasle moving the pump half a dozen times to get it right. I'm also curious what's my current timing.
Also you can't set the timing if the engine won't start at all.
(07-27-2015, 09:33 PM)AlanMcR Seems like a painful process. They make diesel timing light adapters that sense the pressure spike in the metal tubes and, in turn, trigger a regular stroboscopic light. I haven't used one, but this seems like a foolproof solution.But it's still much less hasle than drip timing. BTW i would use this for OM61X engines since those don't have a locking pin for the pump. Would also work with probably every single inline pump that exists.
I bought one of the factory RIV testers with the A/B lights. It has proved useful for getting the timing spot on. Personally, I like the timing light adapter idea better. It tells you when the injection really happens when the engine is running, and it can be used to test the timing advance mechanism.
The diesel timing light adapter sounds expensive ??
(07-27-2015, 10:51 PM)raysorenson can't you just time by ear. If you get nailing, just retard until it's gone?
Yes you can but it's quite a hasle moving the pump half a dozen times to get it right. I'm also curious what's my current timing.
Also you can't set the timing if the engine won't start at all.
(07-28-2015, 07:07 AM)Petar The diesel timing light adapter sounds expensive ??Does anyone have a picture of this? If someone has good measurements/pictures of it (the probe) I guess it should be possible to replicate it and make a DIY A-B lamp. I guess it could be made simple by 3d printing a plug that fit in the whole with a contact tip in the center and non-leading material around it so you could use the indicator inside the pump and this contact tip as a switch for a 1$ LED. It's not so important to know if you are early/late on the timing as you will know this when turning the engine/watching the light anyways ^^
Edit: Like this, M10x20 bolt with 1mm hole in it to fit a conducting material in. Connect 2x1,5V AA batteries in series + wire to the positive pin on the led and then a wire from the negative pin to the center conducting pin of the bolt. Make another wire with a clamp in one end that you ground to the pump and connect to negative on the 1.5V battery. The lengt of the bolt is wrong but it shouldn't be to hard to measure the lengt and make it just long enough for the conducting part to make contact with the indicator. I think this should work to light up the led once the indicator is at center position. Should be possible to make a spring return for the tip also to avoid damaging the indicator but was just a first sketch.
![[Image: bolt.jpg]](http://lokalhost.org/bil/gvogn/bolt.jpg)
(07-28-2015, 07:07 AM)Petar The diesel timing light adapter sounds expensive ??Does anyone have a picture of this? If someone has good measurements/pictures of it (the probe) I guess it should be possible to replicate it and make a DIY A-B lamp. I guess it could be made simple by 3d printing a plug that fit in the whole with a contact tip in the center and non-leading material around it so you could use the indicator inside the pump and this contact tip as a switch for a 1$ LED. It's not so important to know if you are early/late on the timing as you will know this when turning the engine/watching the light anyways ^^
Edit: Like this, M10x20 bolt with 1mm hole in it to fit a conducting material in. Connect 2x1,5V AA batteries in series + wire to the positive pin on the led and then a wire from the negative pin to the center conducting pin of the bolt. Make another wire with a clamp in one end that you ground to the pump and connect to negative on the 1.5V battery. The lengt of the bolt is wrong but it shouldn't be to hard to measure the lengt and make it just long enough for the conducting part to make contact with the indicator. I think this should work to light up the led once the indicator is at center position. Should be possible to make a spring return for the tip also to avoid damaging the indicator but was just a first sketch.
cause of that mb recomend the stroboscopic light device to correctly set the timing. that thing with the MB part number is about a 1000€ .
people can find it on the web by 200€. almost every gas car shop use one of this devices for early Direct injected gasoline cars. what u should know is the number for a MB engine . 17/ to 18.5 is the magic number.
by hearing is also a good method, after installation of the pump advance til it nails and the reduce til nailing disapears, its safe to to run the engine with the bolts untight.
Delivery valves should not be flowing below 20 bar feed pressure in the inlet port. its another check tha the pump builder should do!!!
FD,
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the RIV or the A/B lights do work for spot installation, nevertheless using the tongue in the pump to set timing is dependente on how the pump builder left its position, many people do not know that position is set by the pump builder , and missing 2 or 3 degrees is far cmmon.
cause of that mb recomend the stroboscopic light device to correctly set the timing. that thing with the MB part number is about a 1000€ .
people can find it on the web by 200€. almost every gas car shop use one of this devices for early Direct injected gasoline cars. what u should know is the number for a MB engine . 17/ to 18.5 is the magic number.
by hearing is also a good method, after installation of the pump advance til it nails and the reduce til nailing disapears, its safe to to run the engine with the bolts untight.
Delivery valves should not be flowing below 20 bar feed pressure in the inlet port. its another check tha the pump builder should do!!!
FD,
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-TL95-Ti...43b3549230
this works with most timing lights
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-TL95-Ti...43b3549230
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