LSD options.
LSD options.
03-20-2008, 02:06 PM
#1
Attached Files
Image(s)1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Alot of talk about the rear diff on other forums. I passed up one from an SEL about a year ago. I am back on the hunt again. It seems AMG had a LSD option, anyone have any info on it?
Attached Files
Image(s)1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
03-21-2008, 12:29 AM
#2
Paul
well, I don't know much about it, other than it looks like a helical type unit (quaife is the main manufacturer of these nowadays) the factory LSD's were (as far as i know) clutch type diffs. The helical ones are nice cause you never have to replace the clutches, as long as you keep good fluid in them they should essentially last forever. The downside is that they usually dont work as well as a clutch type in off road/ice situations due to the way they transfer torque from wheel to wheel, basically you need some sort of traction on both wheels for them to work right, whereas a clutch type will lock up even if one wheel is on ice and the other isnt. there are tons of articles on the net that go over the pros and cons of both types, so i wont go into it in too much detail here, but its probably besides the point since im sure the AMG units are uber rare and way expensive at this point :lol:
Paul
04-09-2008, 01:37 PM
#3
Finding one of these cars locally isn't easy.
Cheers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
04-09-2008, 01:37 PM #3I've been looking at W210's with OM606.912 engines online for a few years now and I could have sworn that I remember seeing more than a handful of them advertised as having limited slip differentials...any truth to this? That sure would make that big RWD car better in the snow...
Finding one of these cars locally isn't easy.
Cheers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
11-24-2008, 01:59 PM
#4
Thoughts?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
11-24-2008, 01:59 PM #4I've been considering "Lincoln Locking" my 300D's differential for the ultimate in traction(I live in Rochester, NY-lots of snow) because I'd rather deal with increased tire wear and know that one wheel isn't spinning out. In the spring, swap out to a non-welded differential.
Thoughts?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
11-25-2008, 09:10 AM
#6
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
11-25-2008, 09:10 AM #6Are we talking gross premature failure? The axles are new(3k) GSPs from advance auto. I would be driving on dry roads probably 50% of the time.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
07-12-2009, 02:31 AM
#7
This is from a 1984 USA brochure.
That 3.27 would be spot on perfect for a 4-speed manual.
This post was last modified: 07-12-2009, 02:32 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
07-12-2009, 02:31 AM
#7
Anyone got $2250?
This is from a 1984 USA brochure.
That 3.27 would be spot on perfect for a 4-speed manual.
07-16-2009, 05:01 PM
#8
Yeah, breaking my arm, I know...
I'm going to look into taking the cover off of the diff to double check now that I know this. I thought it odd that a 'high content' manufacturer like Mercedes, selling RWD cars in snow prone market areas, wouldn't have a LSD option in the time before traction control. If a blundering, bloated company like GM had limited slips in their comparatively primitive cars, it makes little sense that an engineering icon like MB would overlook such a thing. Volvo, with their 'wannabe 123' 240DL cars had this option and they weren't exactly in the same league as Mercedes.
Anyone paying a premium price (~22k in 1982 dollars) for one of the slowest cars going, if they realized the benefit in the snow of this option, likely wouldn't have balked at it as much as we, who've probably paid less than the LSD option cost for the whole car - by a factor of three, in my case. In Europe, this might have been more of a 'Joe' car, but in America, it was quite premium, socially probably the equivalent of a Prius today - a 'green' status symbol. "I spent damn good money to lessen my environmental impact", yadda yadda yadda.
In other words, if you were well to do, and wanted a high-miler car, you bought a 240D. More 'common folk' types would have made do with a Honda or a Rabbit. (I will say this - a 240D is a goddamned ROCKET in comparison to a Diesel Rabbit!). Just because it seems expensive (because it is) doesn't mean no one would check that option box. The tags making for easy ID'ing of these diffs might have been removed for a fluid change and never replaced, broken off, etc. Happens over the course of decades.
Also, if one recalls my thread, I still find it odd that this fairly conventional looking differential somehow manages to spin both tires in the dirt, whereas no other car I've owned - American, Swedish, Japanese, or German - would do so with an open diff. Always one tire spinning, even on ice. It's left quite a few of my friends, one an aerospace engineer, scratching their heads over it. I suppose if ALL of the MB diffs do that, it's one thing - anyone care to experiment?
I recall from my time at the 9C1 Caprice forum that, after years of police use and a few as a civilian car before landing in the hands of drag racers, they'd complain that the stock LSD rear wasn't working very well, if at all. Turns out that GM makes a very good additive formula for clutch LSDs that made these old, 200k+ mile boats hook with 300+ hp (some were running 383 stroker LT1s, which meant even more power). No other mods required - the clutches were simply slipping so much that the LS action wasn't noticeable. Maybe I'm not such a dolt after all.
Its possible that there's quite a few of these diffs out there unrecognized - how many people were really picking a W123 for a hot-rod or sports sedan before a few years ago? Not all that many, too expensive and BMW is typically the choice for such things (not to mention cars like the XR4TI). Possible, as in a theory, I still don't know for sure. I'm somewhat optimistic, though.
This post was last modified: 07-16-2009, 05:36 PM by CID Vicious.
CID Vicious
07-16-2009, 05:01 PM #8How interesting. Although I was flat-out wrong (supposing that the clutches aren't just worn out, or that the fluid is really old and thus the LSD additives are severely depleted) about having one on my car, supposedly these cars didn't come with a LSD from the factory.
Yeah, breaking my arm, I know...
I'm going to look into taking the cover off of the diff to double check now that I know this. I thought it odd that a 'high content' manufacturer like Mercedes, selling RWD cars in snow prone market areas, wouldn't have a LSD option in the time before traction control. If a blundering, bloated company like GM had limited slips in their comparatively primitive cars, it makes little sense that an engineering icon like MB would overlook such a thing. Volvo, with their 'wannabe 123' 240DL cars had this option and they weren't exactly in the same league as Mercedes.
Anyone paying a premium price (~22k in 1982 dollars) for one of the slowest cars going, if they realized the benefit in the snow of this option, likely wouldn't have balked at it as much as we, who've probably paid less than the LSD option cost for the whole car - by a factor of three, in my case. In Europe, this might have been more of a 'Joe' car, but in America, it was quite premium, socially probably the equivalent of a Prius today - a 'green' status symbol. "I spent damn good money to lessen my environmental impact", yadda yadda yadda.
In other words, if you were well to do, and wanted a high-miler car, you bought a 240D. More 'common folk' types would have made do with a Honda or a Rabbit. (I will say this - a 240D is a goddamned ROCKET in comparison to a Diesel Rabbit!). Just because it seems expensive (because it is) doesn't mean no one would check that option box. The tags making for easy ID'ing of these diffs might have been removed for a fluid change and never replaced, broken off, etc. Happens over the course of decades.
Also, if one recalls my thread, I still find it odd that this fairly conventional looking differential somehow manages to spin both tires in the dirt, whereas no other car I've owned - American, Swedish, Japanese, or German - would do so with an open diff. Always one tire spinning, even on ice. It's left quite a few of my friends, one an aerospace engineer, scratching their heads over it. I suppose if ALL of the MB diffs do that, it's one thing - anyone care to experiment?
I recall from my time at the 9C1 Caprice forum that, after years of police use and a few as a civilian car before landing in the hands of drag racers, they'd complain that the stock LSD rear wasn't working very well, if at all. Turns out that GM makes a very good additive formula for clutch LSDs that made these old, 200k+ mile boats hook with 300+ hp (some were running 383 stroker LT1s, which meant even more power). No other mods required - the clutches were simply slipping so much that the LS action wasn't noticeable. Maybe I'm not such a dolt after all.
Its possible that there's quite a few of these diffs out there unrecognized - how many people were really picking a W123 for a hot-rod or sports sedan before a few years ago? Not all that many, too expensive and BMW is typically the choice for such things (not to mention cars like the XR4TI). Possible, as in a theory, I still don't know for sure. I'm somewhat optimistic, though.
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