Options on fueling a 606A
Options on fueling a 606A
01-22-2013, 07:03 PM
#1
first a little backround story:
I done a 606 td swap with 722.6 from a 99' w210 into a G wagen 88' using nearly all of the loom, ecu's, ignition switch, steering lock ect from the 210 doner...Ive done less than 5 miles two years ago with the 606 in it and as I cant get it the stop going into limp home mode (I removed the abs and its vital to the autobox working) its sat unused for the last two years while working on other projects....time to sort it out!!
First of I want rid of the IR key and all that goes with it...ive rang a few places that repair ecu's/ remove immobiliser.
I cant find anyone that can remove the immobiliser from a w210 ecu.
Can the immobiliser be removed from these as with VW and BMW ecu's?
Can the 606 electronic pump be ran on stand alone management?
If non of the above are viable options lets talk mechanical pumps.
606 na pumps are fairly available here, is this the best pump to start with?
next pump mods...Id be more than happy with 225 ish bhp for the time being. will swapping the 5.5 elements out for the 6mm ones from the electric IP and increasing the fuel load be enough to achieve this?
Sorry for all the questions at one time, but ive done a good bit of searching and couldnt find the answers and thought it would be good to have them in one place foe future reference.
THE DIGGER
01-22-2013, 07:03 PM #1As the tile what are all the options on fueling a 606 turbo??
first a little backround story:
I done a 606 td swap with 722.6 from a 99' w210 into a G wagen 88' using nearly all of the loom, ecu's, ignition switch, steering lock ect from the 210 doner...Ive done less than 5 miles two years ago with the 606 in it and as I cant get it the stop going into limp home mode (I removed the abs and its vital to the autobox working) its sat unused for the last two years while working on other projects....time to sort it out!!
First of I want rid of the IR key and all that goes with it...ive rang a few places that repair ecu's/ remove immobiliser.
I cant find anyone that can remove the immobiliser from a w210 ecu.
Can the immobiliser be removed from these as with VW and BMW ecu's?
Can the 606 electronic pump be ran on stand alone management?
If non of the above are viable options lets talk mechanical pumps.
606 na pumps are fairly available here, is this the best pump to start with?
next pump mods...Id be more than happy with 225 ish bhp for the time being. will swapping the 5.5 elements out for the 6mm ones from the electric IP and increasing the fuel load be enough to achieve this?
Sorry for all the questions at one time, but ive done a good bit of searching and couldnt find the answers and thought it would be good to have them in one place foe future reference.
01-22-2013, 07:28 PM
#2
You could go 603 none turbo with an external ALDA (if you need to pass any kind of smoke test you need this) or you could go 603 turbo pump, there is one on ebay uk right now. Don't know if 225 is achievable on 6mm elements or stock turbo so I will leave that to someone more informed.
Go mechanical or change ECU which I have seen lots of talk about but nobody actually delivering a fully working item.
You could go 603 none turbo with an external ALDA (if you need to pass any kind of smoke test you need this) or you could go 603 turbo pump, there is one on ebay uk right now. Don't know if 225 is achievable on 6mm elements or stock turbo so I will leave that to someone more informed.
01-22-2013, 07:42 PM
#3
(01-22-2013, 07:28 PM)Mark_M Go mechanical or change ECU which I have seen lots of talk about but nobody actually delivering a fully working item.
You could go 603 none turbo with an external ALDA (if you need to pass any kind of smoke test you need this) or you could go 603 turbo pump, there is one on ebay uk right now. Don't know if 225 is achievable on 6mm elements or stock turbo so I will leave that to someone more informed.
Thanks for the reply.
Why 603 pump over 606 n/a mechaical pump?
THE DIGGER
01-22-2013, 07:42 PM #3(01-22-2013, 07:28 PM)Mark_M Go mechanical or change ECU which I have seen lots of talk about but nobody actually delivering a fully working item.
You could go 603 none turbo with an external ALDA (if you need to pass any kind of smoke test you need this) or you could go 603 turbo pump, there is one on ebay uk right now. Don't know if 225 is achievable on 6mm elements or stock turbo so I will leave that to someone more informed.
Thanks for the reply.
Why 603 pump over 606 n/a mechaical pump?
01-22-2013, 07:52 PM
#4
This post was last modified: 01-22-2013, 07:53 PM by Mark_M.
you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.
01-23-2013, 12:02 AM
#5
(01-22-2013, 07:52 PM)Mark_M you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.hello ,i have a 606a engined 460 g wagen and i have a 603a pump fitted with the 6mm elements ,i am building a 463 at the moment with the same, but the pump delivery turned up to about 75cc @1000 rpm from base at 60 cc running 12 psi boost.
if you go down this route you will have to fit the controller for the box made by 'olefejer' on this site using an arduino unit to take control of your auto box as your ecu etc all talk through each other - getting rid of the key is a nightmare ..
you should be able to get near the power you want . the engine /g box ecu is looking for wheel rotations/steering angles/abs -all sorts hence it keeps throwing you limp mode -very frustrating.
go manual pump you will not regret it then you have no electronics to go wrong ,i have fitted a pressure operated wastegate with egr delete etc de-gut the intake plenum of the valves etc and i run an iveco intercooler with a 716-651 6 speed manual gearbox with matching flywheel and ml 270 cdi clutch /cw 220cdi clutch master cylinder to match the operation of the donor cars clutch setup -result a lighter clutch than the 280 petrol it replaces - result flying machine and what a noise !!! don't get stuck doing just 5 miles in two years ditch all the wiring and black boxes ,i have much admired your cut down g's and i am building a stretched super g with 605 a power with 6 speed manual to carry a one off swedish demount camper.
here is a picture of my engine bay
This post was last modified: 01-23-2013, 12:48 AM by axel606.
(01-22-2013, 07:52 PM)Mark_M you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.hello ,i have a 606a engined 460 g wagen and i have a 603a pump fitted with the 6mm elements ,i am building a 463 at the moment with the same, but the pump delivery turned up to about 75cc @1000 rpm from base at 60 cc running 12 psi boost.
if you go down this route you will have to fit the controller for the box made by 'olefejer' on this site using an arduino unit to take control of your auto box as your ecu etc all talk through each other - getting rid of the key is a nightmare ..
you should be able to get near the power you want . the engine /g box ecu is looking for wheel rotations/steering angles/abs -all sorts hence it keeps throwing you limp mode -very frustrating.
go manual pump you will not regret it then you have no electronics to go wrong ,i have fitted a pressure operated wastegate with egr delete etc de-gut the intake plenum of the valves etc and i run an iveco intercooler with a 716-651 6 speed manual gearbox with matching flywheel and ml 270 cdi clutch /cw 220cdi clutch master cylinder to match the operation of the donor cars clutch setup -result a lighter clutch than the 280 petrol it replaces - result flying machine and what a noise !!! don't get stuck doing just 5 miles in two years ditch all the wiring and black boxes ,i have much admired your cut down g's and i am building a stretched super g with 605 a power with 6 speed manual to carry a one off swedish demount camper.
here is a picture of my engine bay
01-23-2013, 03:29 AM
#6
The 722.6 controller by Olefejer looks good and i would have used that except the 722.6 box wont fit to my R107 project tunnel. iirc all he needs to make the box work is a TPS and the gearlever.
Here's one...although how you get it from High Wycome to Ireland I wouldn't know. My 910 engine/box complete cost me £500 two years ago. Handy to have for bits and bobs you break on the 962.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-BENZ-...416ff3b905
.
This post was last modified: 01-23-2013, 03:40 AM by Druk.
I went the same route as Axel and Mark_M but with a 606na pump. Bought myself a complete 124 24V engine/box and stripped out the IP then got the elements swapped in from the electric pump. It needs an ALDA to work with the turbo and I got that from DieselMeken on here but still have to get that set-up.
The 722.6 controller by Olefejer looks good and i would have used that except the 722.6 box wont fit to my R107 project tunnel. iirc all he needs to make the box work is a TPS and the gearlever.
Here's one...although how you get it from High Wycome to Ireland I wouldn't know. My 910 engine/box complete cost me £500 two years ago. Handy to have for bits and bobs you break on the 962.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-BENZ-...416ff3b905
.
01-28-2013, 07:25 AM
#8
(01-22-2013, 07:52 PM)Mark_M you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.
I was surprised when you say it would be hard to find a 606 na pump....we have loads of them over here....but there in w210's.....I THOUGH as the early w210 with the 606 n/a hadn't got the IR key they hadn't a ecu pump...I was wrong
(01-23-2013, 12:02 AM)axel606(01-22-2013, 07:52 PM)Mark_M you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.hello ,i have a 606a engined 460 g wagen and i have a 603a pump fitted with the 6mm elements ,i am building a 463 at the moment with the same, but the pump delivery turned up to about 75cc @1000 rpm from base at 60 cc running 12 psi boost.
if you go down this route you will have to fit the controller for the box made by 'olefejer' on this site using an arduino unit to take control of your auto box as your ecu etc all talk through each other - getting rid of the key is a nightmare ..
you should be able to get near the power you want . the engine /g box ecu is looking for wheel rotations/steering angles/abs -all sorts hence it keeps throwing you limp mode -very frustrating.
go manual pump you will not regret it then you have no electronics to go wrong ,i have fitted a pressure operated wastegate with egr delete etc de-gut the intake plenum of the valves etc and i run an iveco intercooler with a 716-651 6 speed manual gearbox with matching flywheel and ml 270 cdi clutch /cw 220cdi clutch master cylinder to match the operation of the donor cars clutch setup -result a lighter clutch than the 280 petrol it replaces - result flying machine and what a noise !!! don't get stuck doing just 5 miles in two years ditch all the wiring and black boxes ,i have much admired your cut down g's and i am building a stretched super g with 605 a power with 6 speed manual to carry a one off swedish demount camper.
here is a picture of my engine bay
Hi thanks for sharing about your set up (seen pics of your stretch g too nice workmanship)
When I put the 606 in my black G I had about 300 pounds in the whole set up....so ive not really lost anything other than time, but I wouldnt call it a loss as I learned a lot along the way!
When I done it over two years ago the 603 pump was the done way, I'm surprised that theres not a way to run the ecu pump stand alone by now (witch is what I was hoping for hence it going on the back burner for the last two years)
I would have went with a 603 pump at the time but really wanted the ecu controlled box and there was no option for the 722.6 auto other than a controller from the states that requires a lot of set up making a loom ect and was around 1600 dollars if I remember correctly.
In hindsight, I should have just got the 603/606na pump then and a pre 722.6 non ecu controlled box...but as I said ive been working on other projects in that time to, and when I heard of olefejer controller before Christmas I gave me renewed interest to sort it out. Will start a new thread in projects and keep it updated.
(01-23-2013, 03:29 AM)Druk I went the same route as Axel and Mark_M but with a 606na pump. Bought myself a complete 124 24V engine/box and stripped out the IP then got the elements swapped in from the electric pump. It needs an ALDA to work with the turbo and I got that from DieselMeken on here but still have to get that set-up.
The 722.6 controller by Olefejer looks good and i would have used that except the 722.6 box wont fit to my R107 project tunnel. iirc all he needs to make the box work is a TPS and the gearlever.
Here's one...although how you get it from High Wycome to Ireland I wouldn't know. My 910 engine/box complete cost me £500 two years ago. Handy to have for bits and bobs you break on the 962.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-BENZ-...416ff3b905
Hi Druk, thanks for the link to the 606 na it went for over 500 quid after
I think Ive a line a 606 na pump for a reasonable price.
.
So just to recap for anyone searching in the future....the only options to run a 606 turbo is a 603 pump/ 606NA pump NOT from a w210 chassis?
This post was last modified: 01-28-2013, 07:50 AM by THE DIGGER.
THE DIGGER
01-28-2013, 07:25 AM #8(01-22-2013, 07:52 PM)Mark_M you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.
I was surprised when you say it would be hard to find a 606 na pump....we have loads of them over here....but there in w210's.....I THOUGH as the early w210 with the 606 n/a hadn't got the IR key they hadn't a ecu pump...I was wrong
(01-23-2013, 12:02 AM)axel606(01-22-2013, 07:52 PM)Mark_M you can go the 606 mechanical pump if you can find one. 603 NA pumps are easy to get and cheap 603 turbo pumps are a bit harder and a bit more expensive and I have never actually seen a 606 NA mechanical pump for sale. I know they exist and are supposed to be good but seem pretty rare. Add the external ALDA costs on to an NA pump and the costs go up again.hello ,i have a 606a engined 460 g wagen and i have a 603a pump fitted with the 6mm elements ,i am building a 463 at the moment with the same, but the pump delivery turned up to about 75cc @1000 rpm from base at 60 cc running 12 psi boost.
if you go down this route you will have to fit the controller for the box made by 'olefejer' on this site using an arduino unit to take control of your auto box as your ecu etc all talk through each other - getting rid of the key is a nightmare ..
you should be able to get near the power you want . the engine /g box ecu is looking for wheel rotations/steering angles/abs -all sorts hence it keeps throwing you limp mode -very frustrating.
go manual pump you will not regret it then you have no electronics to go wrong ,i have fitted a pressure operated wastegate with egr delete etc de-gut the intake plenum of the valves etc and i run an iveco intercooler with a 716-651 6 speed manual gearbox with matching flywheel and ml 270 cdi clutch /cw 220cdi clutch master cylinder to match the operation of the donor cars clutch setup -result a lighter clutch than the 280 petrol it replaces - result flying machine and what a noise !!! don't get stuck doing just 5 miles in two years ditch all the wiring and black boxes ,i have much admired your cut down g's and i am building a stretched super g with 605 a power with 6 speed manual to carry a one off swedish demount camper.
here is a picture of my engine bay
Hi thanks for sharing about your set up (seen pics of your stretch g too nice workmanship)
When I put the 606 in my black G I had about 300 pounds in the whole set up....so ive not really lost anything other than time, but I wouldnt call it a loss as I learned a lot along the way!
When I done it over two years ago the 603 pump was the done way, I'm surprised that theres not a way to run the ecu pump stand alone by now (witch is what I was hoping for hence it going on the back burner for the last two years)
I would have went with a 603 pump at the time but really wanted the ecu controlled box and there was no option for the 722.6 auto other than a controller from the states that requires a lot of set up making a loom ect and was around 1600 dollars if I remember correctly.
In hindsight, I should have just got the 603/606na pump then and a pre 722.6 non ecu controlled box...but as I said ive been working on other projects in that time to, and when I heard of olefejer controller before Christmas I gave me renewed interest to sort it out. Will start a new thread in projects and keep it updated.
(01-23-2013, 03:29 AM)Druk I went the same route as Axel and Mark_M but with a 606na pump. Bought myself a complete 124 24V engine/box and stripped out the IP then got the elements swapped in from the electric pump. It needs an ALDA to work with the turbo and I got that from DieselMeken on here but still have to get that set-up.
The 722.6 controller by Olefejer looks good and i would have used that except the 722.6 box wont fit to my R107 project tunnel. iirc all he needs to make the box work is a TPS and the gearlever.
Here's one...although how you get it from High Wycome to Ireland I wouldn't know. My 910 engine/box complete cost me £500 two years ago. Handy to have for bits and bobs you break on the 962.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-BENZ-...416ff3b905
Hi Druk, thanks for the link to the 606 na it went for over 500 quid after
I think Ive a line a 606 na pump for a reasonable price.
.
So just to recap for anyone searching in the future....the only options to run a 606 turbo is a 603 pump/ 606NA pump NOT from a w210 chassis?
01-29-2013, 02:09 PM
#9
Essentially, yes. You will need a 603 pump ( 3.0L preferebly since the 3.5L supposedly has a lower RPM govenor) or the 606NA pump from the '95 E300D. The pumps from the w210 chassis are all drive by wire. You can use the delivery valves from the w210 pump since they are 6mm in the 603 pump for a little bit of a power gain.
![[Image: 537416_257441844387892_294039880_n.jpg]](http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/537416_257441844387892_294039880_n.jpg)
![[Image: 76126_257441867721223_1623899281_n.jpg]](http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/76126_257441867721223_1623899281_n.jpg)
01-30-2013, 06:54 AM
#12
(01-30-2013, 05:48 AM)orion As I can see the immobilizer is not only my problem but i thing a change to the mechanical IP is a step in the past. The engine is very economical with the ECU.
Agreed orion, my reason for starting this thread was to find out was there any other options as I've read most threads on here for 606 engines seems there isn't.
Pump from a 603 or 606na from w124 chassis is the only DIY option as far as I can see.
THE DIGGER
01-30-2013, 06:54 AM #12(01-30-2013, 05:48 AM)orion As I can see the immobilizer is not only my problem but i thing a change to the mechanical IP is a step in the past. The engine is very economical with the ECU.
Agreed orion, my reason for starting this thread was to find out was there any other options as I've read most threads on here for 606 engines seems there isn't.
Pump from a 603 or 606na from w124 chassis is the only DIY option as far as I can see.
01-30-2013, 04:07 PM
#15
(01-30-2013, 02:20 PM)dieselmeken NEED PUMPS Do you have moore RS203?? I buy!
NEED MY PUMP BUILT!! Ill have a dig around and see what I come come up with.
THE DIGGER
01-30-2013, 04:07 PM #15(01-30-2013, 02:20 PM)dieselmeken NEED PUMPS Do you have moore RS203?? I buy!
NEED MY PUMP BUILT!! Ill have a dig around and see what I come come up with.
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