STD Tuning Engine What are these parts trying to tell me?

What are these parts trying to tell me?

What are these parts trying to tell me?

 
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Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-17-2013, 08:37 PM #1
Had trouble starting the car today. Seemed like the starter was having a harder time turning the engine around. Finally got is started by using the hair dryer to pump in hot air into the intake.
It was running.. but idled like crap with lots of unburned fuel coming out of the exhaust and just didn't have any power. While idling we noticed that it sounded like one of the exhaust valves was out of adjustment. The classic chuff chuffa sound.
Took off the valve cover and found two of the cam towers broken.

I've got replacement parts from the 'donor' car but want to understand what caused this failure so I can fix it.

What story are these parts trying to tell me?
       
Torkey
02-17-2013, 08:37 PM #1

Had trouble starting the car today. Seemed like the starter was having a harder time turning the engine around. Finally got is started by using the hair dryer to pump in hot air into the intake.
It was running.. but idled like crap with lots of unburned fuel coming out of the exhaust and just didn't have any power. While idling we noticed that it sounded like one of the exhaust valves was out of adjustment. The classic chuff chuffa sound.
Took off the valve cover and found two of the cam towers broken.

I've got replacement parts from the 'donor' car but want to understand what caused this failure so I can fix it.

What story are these parts trying to tell me?
       

Simpler=Better
PORTED HEAD

2,127
02-17-2013, 09:10 PM #2
Excessive vibration?

Chain slop making it torque hard?

No solid diagnosis, just throwing some ideas out there

Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-17-2013, 09:10 PM #2

Excessive vibration?

Chain slop making it torque hard?

No solid diagnosis, just throwing some ideas out there


Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?

MFSuper90
Budget Builder

1,533
02-17-2013, 10:16 PM #3
Judging from the break marks on it, it looks like they have been broken for awhile.
Thats wild! never expect cam towers to break...

'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
MFSuper90
02-17-2013, 10:16 PM #3

Judging from the break marks on it, it looks like they have been broken for awhile.
Thats wild! never expect cam towers to break...


'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-18-2013, 12:02 AM #4
(02-17-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 Judging from the break marks on it, it looks like they have been broken for awhile.
Thats wild! never expect cam towers to break...

Good eye MFSuper90!!! The second cam tower breaks are shiny and worn where the breaks on the first tower are rough and new.

This engine was rebuilt over the winter. When the engine failed it was cylinder three that took the brunt of the punishment. Thinking maybe the cam tower had started to fracture then. We have maybe 300 miles on the car after the rebuild. It might have completely failed and the other towers were not able to handle the force so the second one failed.
Torkey
02-18-2013, 12:02 AM #4

(02-17-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 Judging from the break marks on it, it looks like they have been broken for awhile.
Thats wild! never expect cam towers to break...

Good eye MFSuper90!!! The second cam tower breaks are shiny and worn where the breaks on the first tower are rough and new.

This engine was rebuilt over the winter. When the engine failed it was cylinder three that took the brunt of the punishment. Thinking maybe the cam tower had started to fracture then. We have maybe 300 miles on the car after the rebuild. It might have completely failed and the other towers were not able to handle the force so the second one failed.

dieselmeken
Holset

407
02-18-2013, 12:34 AM #5
did you grind the cylinder head? How much if yes?
dieselmeken
02-18-2013, 12:34 AM #5

did you grind the cylinder head? How much if yes?

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-18-2013, 09:39 AM #6
(02-18-2013, 12:34 AM)dieselmeken did you grind the cylinder head? How much if yes?

We had the cylinder head tested and mag fluxed. We also installed new valve guides and had the seats ground but nothing more than that.
This post was last modified: 02-18-2013, 09:42 AM by Torkey.
Torkey
02-18-2013, 09:39 AM #6

(02-18-2013, 12:34 AM)dieselmeken did you grind the cylinder head? How much if yes?

We had the cylinder head tested and mag fluxed. We also installed new valve guides and had the seats ground but nothing more than that.

willbhere4u
Six in a row make her go!

2,507
02-18-2013, 12:11 PM #7
if the #3 piston had smacked the valve it could have fractured the cam tower before the rebuild? and the cold weather finished it off?
This post was last modified: 02-18-2013, 12:11 PM by willbhere4u.

1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-18-2013, 12:11 PM #7

if the #3 piston had smacked the valve it could have fractured the cam tower before the rebuild? and the cold weather finished it off?


1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running

Mark_M
GT2559V

206
02-18-2013, 12:18 PM #8
Can you replace the cam towers with parts from another engine? These are usually line bored so typically no 2 engines will be identical. You could replace all of them right enough but just a couple wouldn't seem right to me.
Mark_M
02-18-2013, 12:18 PM #8

Can you replace the cam towers with parts from another engine? These are usually line bored so typically no 2 engines will be identical. You could replace all of them right enough but just a couple wouldn't seem right to me.

Druk
Holset

297
02-18-2013, 12:45 PM #9
Were the cam towers replaced in their original positions? Even wrongly by accident? If they are line bored then having them out of sinc might impart undue stress once they are torqued down.

Just a thought......


.
Druk
02-18-2013, 12:45 PM #9

Were the cam towers replaced in their original positions? Even wrongly by accident? If they are line bored then having them out of sinc might impart undue stress once they are torqued down.

Just a thought......


.

Mark_M
GT2559V

206
02-18-2013, 12:50 PM #10
(02-18-2013, 12:45 PM)Druk Were the cam towers replaced in their original positions? Even wrongly by accident? If they are line bored then having them out of sinc might impart undue stress once they are torqued down.

Just a thought......


.

It's a good thought. I didn't think about that being the cause of the original failure but if they were put back in the wrong order you could be spot on.
Mark_M
02-18-2013, 12:50 PM #10

(02-18-2013, 12:45 PM)Druk Were the cam towers replaced in their original positions? Even wrongly by accident? If they are line bored then having them out of sinc might impart undue stress once they are torqued down.

Just a thought......


.

It's a good thought. I didn't think about that being the cause of the original failure but if they were put back in the wrong order you could be spot on.

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-18-2013, 02:41 PM #11
They went back on in the right order. The towers were never taken off the tube that ties them all together. But that is a interesting piece of information and one I didn't know.
We are using the complete cam assembly from the donor car. Also using the rockers from the donor.
On another note... the prechambers were removed and I got a good look at the piston crowns. It looks like #3 exhaust valve hit the piston. Not sure how badly the valve was damaged. The plan is to put it back together and do a compression check. Hoping we don't have to pull the engine out. There is a race this weekend and pulling the engine would be a show stopper for us.

Here is a shot of the piston crown using the digital scope.
   
This post was last modified: 02-18-2013, 09:53 PM by Torkey.
Torkey
02-18-2013, 02:41 PM #11

They went back on in the right order. The towers were never taken off the tube that ties them all together. But that is a interesting piece of information and one I didn't know.
We are using the complete cam assembly from the donor car. Also using the rockers from the donor.
On another note... the prechambers were removed and I got a good look at the piston crowns. It looks like #3 exhaust valve hit the piston. Not sure how badly the valve was damaged. The plan is to put it back together and do a compression check. Hoping we don't have to pull the engine out. There is a race this weekend and pulling the engine would be a show stopper for us.

Here is a shot of the piston crown using the digital scope.
   

Simpler=Better
PORTED HEAD

2,127
02-18-2013, 04:35 PM #12
Ah shit! Oh well, make sure there's no loose crap in there and run it hard. Worst case you're pulling it apart again, best case it's fine.

Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-18-2013, 04:35 PM #12

Ah shit! Oh well, make sure there's no loose crap in there and run it hard. Worst case you're pulling it apart again, best case it's fine.


Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?

fordheaded
K26-2

38
02-18-2013, 05:20 PM #13
Hopefully the valve didn't bend from getting whacked. A compression test should verify that though.
fordheaded
02-18-2013, 05:20 PM #13

Hopefully the valve didn't bend from getting whacked. A compression test should verify that though.

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-18-2013, 07:34 PM #14
Feel like I dodged a bullet here. Compression tests say that cylinder is 10 percent weaker than the average of the other cylinders. Must have only grazed the piston.
I think I should go buy a lottery ticket. Big Grin
This post was last modified: 02-18-2013, 09:54 PM by Torkey.
Torkey
02-18-2013, 07:34 PM #14

Feel like I dodged a bullet here. Compression tests say that cylinder is 10 percent weaker than the average of the other cylinders. Must have only grazed the piston.
I think I should go buy a lottery ticket. Big Grin

willbhere4u
Six in a row make her go!

2,507
02-18-2013, 08:50 PM #15
luckily the valves in these engine go straight up and down lessening the chance of bending a valve. maybe the adjuster loosened up and lengthened until the piston and valve hit causing the cam tower to break

1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-18-2013, 08:50 PM #15

luckily the valves in these engine go straight up and down lessening the chance of bending a valve. maybe the adjuster loosened up and lengthened until the piston and valve hit causing the cam tower to break


1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running

Simpler=Better
PORTED HEAD

2,127
02-18-2013, 10:52 PM #16
Well then, that's grrrrreat!

Ajust em, run it for a while, check em', and run on along

Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-18-2013, 10:52 PM #16

Well then, that's grrrrreat!

Ajust em, run it for a while, check em', and run on along


Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-18-2013, 11:41 PM #17
Another example of how bulletproof these engines are. Not sure another engine would have faired so well. I consider this a major failure with minor repercussions
.
Torkey
02-18-2013, 11:41 PM #17

Another example of how bulletproof these engines are. Not sure another engine would have faired so well. I consider this a major failure with minor repercussions
.

lpumb3
617 300sd

141
02-24-2013, 12:36 PM #18
(02-18-2013, 08:50 PM)willbhere4u luckily the valves in these engine go straight up and down lessening the chance of bending a valve. maybe the adjuster loosened up and lengthened until the piston and valve hit causing the cam tower to break

do you adjust your valves after every race ?
lpumb3
02-24-2013, 12:36 PM #18

(02-18-2013, 08:50 PM)willbhere4u luckily the valves in these engine go straight up and down lessening the chance of bending a valve. maybe the adjuster loosened up and lengthened until the piston and valve hit causing the cam tower to break

do you adjust your valves after every race ?

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-25-2013, 12:03 AM #19
Quote: do you adjust your valves after every race ?

We adjust the valves before and after each race.
Torkey
02-25-2013, 12:03 AM #19

Quote: do you adjust your valves after every race ?

We adjust the valves before and after each race.

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-25-2013, 08:32 AM #20
Wanted to post an update on this. The car was in an race this weekend and performed flawlessly. It was run hard approximately 6 hours on Sat and 8 hours on Sunday. Abolsolutely flawless. We did run out of fuel 4 turns before the checkered but we finished by using the starter to limp the car across the line. It was epic! Big Grin
This post was last modified: 02-25-2013, 08:33 AM by Torkey.
Torkey
02-25-2013, 08:32 AM #20

Wanted to post an update on this. The car was in an race this weekend and performed flawlessly. It was run hard approximately 6 hours on Sat and 8 hours on Sunday. Abolsolutely flawless. We did run out of fuel 4 turns before the checkered but we finished by using the starter to limp the car across the line. It was epic! Big Grin

Simpler=Better
PORTED HEAD

2,127
02-25-2013, 08:58 AM #21
That's awesome! Sounds like it's time to inflate the tank to 80psi and stretch it out for a few more gallons.

Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-25-2013, 08:58 AM #21

That's awesome! Sounds like it's time to inflate the tank to 80psi and stretch it out for a few more gallons.


Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?

willbhere4u
Six in a row make her go!

2,507
02-25-2013, 03:22 PM #22
We need some pics of the car!

You can install an extra tank and double the range! might be a little tail happy with an extra 20 gal of diesel in the back lol
This post was last modified: 02-25-2013, 03:24 PM by willbhere4u.

1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-25-2013, 03:22 PM #22

We need some pics of the car!


You can install an extra tank and double the range! might be a little tail happy with an extra 20 gal of diesel in the back lol


1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running

sassparilla_kid
diesel > all other fuels

1,618
02-25-2013, 06:48 PM #23
I just say add another 5-10 gallon reserve tank

-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-25-2013, 06:48 PM #23

I just say add another 5-10 gallon reserve tank


-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!

Torkey
Dirty Diesel

220
02-25-2013, 08:30 PM #24
(02-25-2013, 03:22 PM)willbhere4u We need some pics of the car!

You can install an extra tank and double the range! might be a little tail happy with an extra 20 gal of diesel in the back lol

Lots of pics on our Facebook page (click link below). We will be posting pictures from this weekend tonight.

Dirty Little Freaks Racing
This post was last modified: 02-26-2013, 10:04 PM by Torkey.
Torkey
02-25-2013, 08:30 PM #24

(02-25-2013, 03:22 PM)willbhere4u We need some pics of the car!

You can install an extra tank and double the range! might be a little tail happy with an extra 20 gal of diesel in the back lol

Lots of pics on our Facebook page (click link below). We will be posting pictures from this weekend tonight.

Dirty Little Freaks Racing

 
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