OM606 with OM603 pump
OM606 with OM603 pump
10-26-2014, 04:21 PM
#1
I was wondering if people could help me I've tried searching the forums but there seems to be so many conflicting replies.
My questions are simple hopefully for those in the know and I apologise if they have been asked before but I missed it.
I'm looking to build a completely mechanical engine for reliability for an overland vehicle. The ultimate goal is not HP but torque.
If I get an OM606 and fit a mechanical IP from an OM603 (Leave the standard elements in the pump, which I believe is 5.5mm), change the turbo to vacuum actuator.......what sort of torque and HP would this create?
Do I need to do anything else to get the engine running in the overlander? Do I need a fuel pump or is this on the IP already when changed to a mechanical pump?
Thanks,
LRDefender
10-26-2014, 04:21 PM #1Hello,
I was wondering if people could help me I've tried searching the forums but there seems to be so many conflicting replies.
My questions are simple hopefully for those in the know and I apologise if they have been asked before but I missed it.
I'm looking to build a completely mechanical engine for reliability for an overland vehicle. The ultimate goal is not HP but torque.
If I get an OM606 and fit a mechanical IP from an OM603 (Leave the standard elements in the pump, which I believe is 5.5mm), change the turbo to vacuum actuator.......what sort of torque and HP would this create?
Do I need to do anything else to get the engine running in the overlander? Do I need a fuel pump or is this on the IP already when changed to a mechanical pump?
Thanks,
10-26-2014, 05:21 PM
#2
raysorenson
10-26-2014, 05:21 PM #2You'll be within 10% of the torque and hp of the engine the pump was taken off of. The pumps have fuel pumps attached.
10-27-2014, 08:53 AM
#3
So using an OM603 pump is going to give very little HP and torque!
So if I wanted something that could create 180ish BHP and 350NM is it just a case of installing 6mm elements into the OM603 pump? Or what is the best solution?
Also has anyone had any experience of installing a R2S turbo setup, the one where there is a small turbo and a large turbo the small works at low rpm and the larger one at higher rpm.
I'm obviously looking for some low down grunt to get the overlander moving so wondered if this would help especially as BMW seem to have some that are purely mechanical in operation.
This post was last modified: 10-27-2014, 08:54 AM by LRDefender.
LRDefender
10-27-2014, 08:53 AM #3Thanks raysorenson that's exactly the sort of information I needed!
So using an OM603 pump is going to give very little HP and torque!
So if I wanted something that could create 180ish BHP and 350NM is it just a case of installing 6mm elements into the OM603 pump? Or what is the best solution?
Also has anyone had any experience of installing a R2S turbo setup, the one where there is a small turbo and a large turbo the small works at low rpm and the larger one at higher rpm.
I'm obviously looking for some low down grunt to get the overlander moving so wondered if this would help especially as BMW seem to have some that are purely mechanical in operation.
10-27-2014, 10:49 AM
#4
Just installing the 6mm elements are not as easy as it sounds if asking me. I have been at Dieselmekens shop and seen him build a IP (injection pump). You'll need a diesel test bench to do it right. And YEA, you'll need that test bench
I you could use the camshaft in the 6mm pump and fit everything like it was in the mechanical core you might me alright. But I don't think the camshafts fit across.
And for your low down grunt you would really love the 8mm IPs Dieselmeken builds. There you have some good fueling with short injection time.
For as little as 200hp you will not need to compound charge your engine. But if you're thinking about it a bigger turbo together with a supercharger would fit your needs quite well. The Eaton M90 is dirt cheap on eBay.
F-tune Performance
![[Image: V-band_om606.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/V-band_om606.jpg)
![[Image: GTX3582R.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/GTX3582R.jpg)
![[Image: gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg)
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
There are guys out there that has done Compounding as we call it. With a small turbo and a big turbo. I was a skeptic, but now I'm a believer
Just installing the 6mm elements are not as easy as it sounds if asking me. I have been at Dieselmekens shop and seen him build a IP (injection pump). You'll need a diesel test bench to do it right. And YEA, you'll need that test bench
I you could use the camshaft in the 6mm pump and fit everything like it was in the mechanical core you might me alright. But I don't think the camshafts fit across.
And for your low down grunt you would really love the 8mm IPs Dieselmeken builds. There you have some good fueling with short injection time.
For as little as 200hp you will not need to compound charge your engine. But if you're thinking about it a bigger turbo together with a supercharger would fit your needs quite well. The Eaton M90 is dirt cheap on eBay.
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
10-27-2014, 11:01 AM
#5
(10-26-2014, 04:21 PM)LRDefender If I get an OM606 and fit a mechanical IP from an OM603 (Leave the standard elements in the pump, which I believe is 5.5mm), change the turbo to vacuum actuator.......what sort of torque and HP would this create?
The turbo on a 606 is already vacuum operated and is controlled by the ECU so you need to convert it to a pressure actuator. Get the IP from a 606 non-turbo (W124) and swap in the 6mm elements from the turbo pump. That will have to be done by a pump shop that understands what you're at.
(10-26-2014, 04:21 PM)LRDefender If I get an OM606 and fit a mechanical IP from an OM603 (Leave the standard elements in the pump, which I believe is 5.5mm), change the turbo to vacuum actuator.......what sort of torque and HP would this create?
The turbo on a 606 is already vacuum operated and is controlled by the ECU so you need to convert it to a pressure actuator. Get the IP from a 606 non-turbo (W124) and swap in the 6mm elements from the turbo pump. That will have to be done by a pump shop that understands what you're at.
10-29-2014, 05:47 PM
#7
(10-27-2014, 11:01 AM)Druk(10-26-2014, 04:21 PM)LRDefender If I get an OM606 and fit a mechanical IP from an OM603 (Leave the standard elements in the pump, which I believe is 5.5mm), change the turbo to vacuum actuator.......what sort of torque and HP would this create?
The turbo on a 606 is already vacuum operated and is controlled by the ECU so you need to convert it to a pressure actuator. Get the IP from a 606 non-turbo (W124) and swap in the 6mm elements from the turbo pump. That will have to be done by a pump shop that understands what you're at.
(10-27-2014, 03:47 PM)Petar You can turn up the stock 603 pump to maybe 170 HP without changing the elements
Thanks for the replies everyone much appreciated.
Sorry realised I'd made a mistake with the turbo after posting I did mean the other way around.
If I could get 170BHP from a stock 603 pump I reckon that would be ok for now then if it is a bit sluggish I can upgrade it to 6mm elements later. Thanks for this info, I presume I just need to wind the fuel screw up as far as it will go?
LRDefender
10-29-2014, 05:47 PM #7(10-27-2014, 11:01 AM)Druk(10-26-2014, 04:21 PM)LRDefender If I get an OM606 and fit a mechanical IP from an OM603 (Leave the standard elements in the pump, which I believe is 5.5mm), change the turbo to vacuum actuator.......what sort of torque and HP would this create?
The turbo on a 606 is already vacuum operated and is controlled by the ECU so you need to convert it to a pressure actuator. Get the IP from a 606 non-turbo (W124) and swap in the 6mm elements from the turbo pump. That will have to be done by a pump shop that understands what you're at.
(10-27-2014, 03:47 PM)Petar You can turn up the stock 603 pump to maybe 170 HP without changing the elements
Thanks for the replies everyone much appreciated.
Sorry realised I'd made a mistake with the turbo after posting I did mean the other way around.
If I could get 170BHP from a stock 603 pump I reckon that would be ok for now then if it is a bit sluggish I can upgrade it to 6mm elements later. Thanks for this info, I presume I just need to wind the fuel screw up as far as it will go?
10-29-2014, 09:14 PM
#8
(10-29-2014, 05:47 PM)LRDefender If I could get 170BHP from a stock 603 pump I reckon that would be ok for now then if it is a bit sluggish I can upgrade it to 6mm elements later. Thanks for this info, I presume I just need to wind the fuel screw up as far as it will go?
Were there such a thing as a single fuel screw, the drawback would be excessive EGT's after prolonged operation at full load. Adding fuel by tweaking the pump increases injection quantity by delaying the end of injection. This does not result in efficient combustion, hence the EGT problem. Assuming you could live with this, you would need to figure out how do this on an "M" pump. Unfortunately, there are several screws to adjust with complex relationships to each other that could result in many unwanted issues. There is good documentation on tweaking the "MW" pump available, which I've used with success. When it came to my M pump, I paid for bigger elements, which dramatically reduce injection duration, and professional bench tuning. There isn't good info on tweaking the M pump available online to my knowledge. Good luck.
raysorenson
10-29-2014, 09:14 PM #8(10-29-2014, 05:47 PM)LRDefender If I could get 170BHP from a stock 603 pump I reckon that would be ok for now then if it is a bit sluggish I can upgrade it to 6mm elements later. Thanks for this info, I presume I just need to wind the fuel screw up as far as it will go?
Were there such a thing as a single fuel screw, the drawback would be excessive EGT's after prolonged operation at full load. Adding fuel by tweaking the pump increases injection quantity by delaying the end of injection. This does not result in efficient combustion, hence the EGT problem. Assuming you could live with this, you would need to figure out how do this on an "M" pump. Unfortunately, there are several screws to adjust with complex relationships to each other that could result in many unwanted issues. There is good documentation on tweaking the "MW" pump available, which I've used with success. When it came to my M pump, I paid for bigger elements, which dramatically reduce injection duration, and professional bench tuning. There isn't good info on tweaking the M pump available online to my knowledge. Good luck.
10-30-2014, 03:12 AM
#9
(10-29-2014, 09:14 PM)raysorenson(10-29-2014, 05:47 PM)LRDefender If I could get 170BHP from a stock 603 pump I reckon that would be ok for now then if it is a bit sluggish I can upgrade it to 6mm elements later. Thanks for this info, I presume I just need to wind the fuel screw up as far as it will go?
Were there such a thing as a single fuel screw, the drawback would be excessive EGT's after prolonged operation at full load. Adding fuel by tweaking the pump increases injection quantity by delaying the end of injection. This does not result in efficient combustion, hence the EGT problem. Assuming you could live with this, you would need to figure out how do this on an "M" pump. Unfortunately, there are several screws to adjust with complex relationships to each other that could result in many unwanted issues. There is good documentation on tweaking the "MW" pump available, which I've used with success. When it came to my M pump, I paid for bigger elements, which dramatically reduce injection duration, and professional bench tuning. There isn't good info on tweaking the M pump available online to my knowledge. Good luck.
You can also take the 603 pump and the 606 pump to your local bosch shop and have them swap the elements and adjust the pump.
(10-29-2014, 09:14 PM)raysorenson(10-29-2014, 05:47 PM)LRDefender If I could get 170BHP from a stock 603 pump I reckon that would be ok for now then if it is a bit sluggish I can upgrade it to 6mm elements later. Thanks for this info, I presume I just need to wind the fuel screw up as far as it will go?
Were there such a thing as a single fuel screw, the drawback would be excessive EGT's after prolonged operation at full load. Adding fuel by tweaking the pump increases injection quantity by delaying the end of injection. This does not result in efficient combustion, hence the EGT problem. Assuming you could live with this, you would need to figure out how do this on an "M" pump. Unfortunately, there are several screws to adjust with complex relationships to each other that could result in many unwanted issues. There is good documentation on tweaking the "MW" pump available, which I've used with success. When it came to my M pump, I paid for bigger elements, which dramatically reduce injection duration, and professional bench tuning. There isn't good info on tweaking the M pump available online to my knowledge. Good luck.
You can also take the 603 pump and the 606 pump to your local bosch shop and have them swap the elements and adjust the pump.
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