10mm Element Thread
10mm Element Thread
The pump:
found in the front seat of a 300d at my local pick-n-pull. They only charged me $30 for it! (after haggling)
The elements:
The elements that I bought are for a Bosch pes6mw100/320rs5 which apparently comes on some sort of Volvo. The Bosch part # for the elements is 1 418 512 201. <-- incorrect part number! correct ones below.
I bought my parts from the Chinahanji parts plant. This took several emails back and forth with the sales person, and about two months from first contact until the parts actually arrived. The elements were $12.50 each. Shipping was about $56 (from Fujian province, China to California, USA).
I would recommend that folks who buy elements from china consider buying one or two extra parts. The guy that installed the parts mentioned that one of the elements was sticky. Made me glad that I bought 6 instead of 5.
The shop:
The only shop that I could find in my area that would work on the pump was Pacific Fuel Injection in South San Francisco. The owner is pretty friendly, but seemed skeptical that it would work out. He offered to turn up the pump and not rebuild it, but I insisted that I wanted to give the elements a try. The turnaround time was about a month. He preferred that I not discuss his pricing with others.
surprisingly, he was able to calibrate it so that it is actually delivering pretty close to spec for the stock pump. So right now the pump is turned way down. My plan is to get it running, confirm that it wont run away, then work on getting the engine more air, then start turning it up. He said that he set it up so that I could turn it up myself by adjusting the throttle stop. btw, I asked him about internal linkage binding problems due to throttle stop adjustment. He said its not a problem.
the install
what a PITA! I didnt realize that you have to remove the oil filter in order to change the pump.
I wasnt able to get it done over the weekend. Hopefully I can wrap up the install this week.the results
hopefully awesome...
Edited to show correct part numbers:
the elements have the Chinahanji part number of CZ-B415 019, bosch part number is 1 418 415 019
This thread will be to document my adventures with 10mm elements in my spare MW pump. Hopefully for the benefit (or amusement) of many.
The pump:
found in the front seat of a 300d at my local pick-n-pull. They only charged me $30 for it! (after haggling)
The elements:
The elements that I bought are for a Bosch pes6mw100/320rs5 which apparently comes on some sort of Volvo. The Bosch part # for the elements is 1 418 512 201. <-- incorrect part number! correct ones below.
I bought my parts from the Chinahanji parts plant. This took several emails back and forth with the sales person, and about two months from first contact until the parts actually arrived. The elements were $12.50 each. Shipping was about $56 (from Fujian province, China to California, USA).
I would recommend that folks who buy elements from china consider buying one or two extra parts. The guy that installed the parts mentioned that one of the elements was sticky. Made me glad that I bought 6 instead of 5.
The shop:
The only shop that I could find in my area that would work on the pump was Pacific Fuel Injection in South San Francisco. The owner is pretty friendly, but seemed skeptical that it would work out. He offered to turn up the pump and not rebuild it, but I insisted that I wanted to give the elements a try. The turnaround time was about a month. He preferred that I not discuss his pricing with others.
surprisingly, he was able to calibrate it so that it is actually delivering pretty close to spec for the stock pump. So right now the pump is turned way down. My plan is to get it running, confirm that it wont run away, then work on getting the engine more air, then start turning it up. He said that he set it up so that I could turn it up myself by adjusting the throttle stop. btw, I asked him about internal linkage binding problems due to throttle stop adjustment. He said its not a problem.
the install
what a PITA! I didnt realize that you have to remove the oil filter in order to change the pump. I wasnt able to get it done over the weekend. Hopefully I can wrap up the install this week.
the results
hopefully awesome...
Edited to show correct part numbers:
the elements have the Chinahanji part number of CZ-B415 019, bosch part number is 1 418 415 019
Tom has an external full load lever adjustment that shouldn't affect the linkage.
ForcedInduction
09-28-2009, 09:54 PM
#2
Sounds good. Everyone that has been thinking of that project has been told the 10mm element's stroke is different.
Tom has an external full load lever adjustment that shouldn't affect the linkage.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-29-2009, 10:07 AM #3Keep us updated on this project and take some pic's a Holset xy or hy should work out nice with a built pump and support 25-30 psi no problem
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
There are two different types of 10mm elements, "thin" and "thick". The ones found on the cummins are the "thick" I believe. This is for the MW pump.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(09-28-2009, 09:54 PM)ForcedInduction Tom has an external full load lever adjustment that shouldn't affect the linkage.
where can I find out about more about this? having an external lever for the full load adj would be sweet. and who is Tom?
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/tomn...ml#pid6876
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
I moved his post into a seperate thread :
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/tomn...ml#pid6876
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
I have a sheet that the guy gave me that shows quantities at different operating points like; idle, full load, full load w/ pressure on the alda, and breakaway. Ill have to look at it again to see if it has what you are asking for. Also, I have pictures of all this stuff, but the forum wouldnt let me upload them. Ill try again tonight.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(10-02-2009, 01:09 AM)shredator 10mm and stock plungers side by side:
I must say, damn thats huge!
ForcedInduction
10-02-2009, 01:11 AM
#12
(10-02-2009, 01:09 AM)shredator 10mm and stock plungers side by side:
I must say, damn thats huge!
(09-29-2009, 12:31 PM)winmutt There are two different types of 10mm elements, "thin" and "thick". The ones found on the cummins are the "thick" I believe. This is for the MW pump.
^^^ So is that the thick or thin elements?
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
10-02-2009, 01:28 AM #13That indeed is big.
(09-29-2009, 12:31 PM)winmutt There are two different types of 10mm elements, "thin" and "thick". The ones found on the cummins are the "thick" I believe. This is for the MW pump.
^^^ So is that the thick or thin elements?
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
(10-02-2009, 01:28 AM)DeliveryValve ^^^ So is that the thick or thin elements?
these elements have the same stroke (8mm) as the originals.
BUT: Are there only 4 cylinders?
The variation in quantity is way too much but could be better adjusted.
The differences are similar through the range.
This is not finished yet!?
Something does not work.
Here is what the MW65 Holly flows at 13.5mm control rod (and in the narrow tubes the idle quantity):
(10-02-2009, 01:28 AM)DeliveryValve ^^^ So is that the thick or thin elements?
these elements have the same stroke (8mm) as the originals.
BUT: Are there only 4 cylinders?
The variation in quantity is way too much but could be better adjusted.
The differences are similar through the range.
This is not finished yet!?
Something does not work.
Here is what the MW65 Holly flows at 13.5mm control rod (and in the narrow tubes the idle quantity):
The printed columns on the left, numbered 1-5 correspond to the fuel amounts delivered for each cylinder at the different operating conditions. The guy said that the variation was within the acceptable limits.
the handwritten numbers on the right are the average quantities (over all cylinders) that I would get by turning the throttle stop screw in by the number of turns indicated at the top of the column. He provided info for 1,2,3 and 4 turns.
Yeah these are the "thin" elements.
Sorry, I was planning to explain the sheet a bit better but forgot.
The printed columns on the left, numbered 1-5 correspond to the fuel amounts delivered for each cylinder at the different operating conditions. The guy said that the variation was within the acceptable limits.
the handwritten numbers on the right are the average quantities (over all cylinders) that I would get by turning the throttle stop screw in by the number of turns indicated at the top of the column. He provided info for 1,2,3 and 4 turns.
Yeah these are the "thin" elements.
Do the stock 10mm element IPs use stronger element return springs?
Looking at the difference in mass between the 5.5mm and the 10mm elements, it would seem to me that the 10mm elements would use/need a stronger return spring, compared to the spring requirements for the 5.5mm elements, to maintain the same high RPM capability as the 5.5mm elements.
Do the stock 10mm element IPs use stronger element return springs?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-02-2009, 01:07 PM #19How much power do you estimate this pump will support??? very cool project take some vis when you get it running!!!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
3.3x the static displacement of the stock elements, or, FAR more power than the engine could ever contain.
The 7mm Myna can support around 450hp on a 5-cylinder.
ForcedInduction
10-02-2009, 02:50 PM
#20
5.5mm can pump 760mm3, 6.5mm 1062mm3, 10mm 2514mm3.
3.3x the static displacement of the stock elements, or, FAR more power than the engine could ever contain.
The 7mm Myna can support around 450hp on a 5-cylinder.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-02-2009, 07:17 PM #21sweet!!! I need to save up a bit I guess
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
All the numbers are with governor?
The pump only numbers would be interesting to get an idea of how the governor settings have to be reduced to flow the required amount. That would give the reduction of the governor range. In case the usable range gets too narrow the governor might not work properly.
When do you have the IP in the car?
Tom
o.k. now it's more clear. I got confused by the handwritten numbers.
All the numbers are with governor?
The pump only numbers would be interesting to get an idea of how the governor settings have to be reduced to flow the required amount. That would give the reduction of the governor range. In case the usable range gets too narrow the governor might not work properly.
When do you have the IP in the car?
Tom
(10-02-2009, 12:36 PM)OM616 Looking at the difference in mass between the 5.5mm and the 10mm elements, it would seem to me that the 10mm elements would use/need a stronger return spring, compared to the spring requirements for the 5.5mm elements, to maintain the same high RPM capability as the 5.5mm elements.
Do the stock 10mm element IPs use stronger element return springs?
The compression spring is the same for MW55 and MW100 (1 414 619 014). At least it is used in all MW55 and some MW100
This is the element assembly of the original MW100.
The spring looks pretty strong. Don’t have the pic or dimension of the MW55 spring.
Tom
(10-02-2009, 12:36 PM)OM616 Looking at the difference in mass between the 5.5mm and the 10mm elements, it would seem to me that the 10mm elements would use/need a stronger return spring, compared to the spring requirements for the 5.5mm elements, to maintain the same high RPM capability as the 5.5mm elements.
Do the stock 10mm element IPs use stronger element return springs?
The compression spring is the same for MW55 and MW100 (1 414 619 014). At least it is used in all MW55 and some MW100
This is the element assembly of the original MW100.
The spring looks pretty strong. Don’t have the pic or dimension of the MW55 spring.
Tom
(10-04-2009, 04:38 AM)tomnik The pump only numbers would be interesting to get an idea of how the governor settings have to be reduced to flow the required amount. That would give the reduction of the governor range. In case the usable range gets too narrow the governor might not work properly.
When do you have the IP in the car?
yeah. The governors ability to control the pump is still the biggest unknown. The guy that built the thing for me was concerned about that as well. I'm still optimistic
I dont know when I will get the thing on the car. hopefully soon. one of the bolts holding the oil filter deal on the engine block was f'ed up, and I had to grind and hacksaw it off.
Ive decided to ditch the oil filter thing all together, as I dont want to go through this messy ordeal every time I want to remove or adjust the IP. I fabbed a plate to go over the holes in the engine block that has some -10 fittings welded to it, and I have on order some hose and one of those remote-mount dual filter thingys that uses regular chevy filters. So now I have to complete this "project" before I get back to installing the IP
(10-04-2009, 04:38 AM)tomnik The pump only numbers would be interesting to get an idea of how the governor settings have to be reduced to flow the required amount. That would give the reduction of the governor range. In case the usable range gets too narrow the governor might not work properly.
When do you have the IP in the car?
yeah. The governors ability to control the pump is still the biggest unknown. The guy that built the thing for me was concerned about that as well. I'm still optimistic
I dont know when I will get the thing on the car. hopefully soon. one of the bolts holding the oil filter deal on the engine block was f'ed up, and I had to grind and hacksaw it off.
Ive decided to ditch the oil filter thing all together, as I dont want to go through this messy ordeal every time I want to remove or adjust the IP. I fabbed a plate to go over the holes in the engine block that has some -10 fittings welded to it, and I have on order some hose and one of those remote-mount dual filter thingys that uses regular chevy filters. So now I have to complete this "project" before I get back to installing the IP
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
10-05-2009, 03:00 PM #25You can remove the pump without removing the oil filter.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
George3soccer
10-05-2009, 03:14 PM #26Wow is all i have to say, very nice upgrade, please let us know how everything turns out to.
(10-05-2009, 03:00 PM)Rudolf_Diesel You can remove the pump without removing the oil filter.
AAWWWWW!!
seriously!? So I didnt have to go through all this? what is the trick?
the manual that I am working from said that it had to be removed, and it looked to me like there wasnt enough room to get it out.
(10-05-2009, 03:00 PM)Rudolf_Diesel You can remove the pump without removing the oil filter.
AAWWWWW!!
seriously!? So I didnt have to go through all this? what is the trick?
the manual that I am working from said that it had to be removed, and it looked to me like there wasnt enough room to get it out.
(10-05-2009, 06:56 PM)shredator(10-05-2009, 03:00 PM)Rudolf_Diesel You can remove the pump without removing the oil filter.
AAWWWWW!!
seriously!? So I didnt have to go through all this? what is the trick?
You have to remove the shut off valve and possibly the idle damping screw as well. Then you have to get the FUCKING rear screw and bracket off - that is the hardest part! When you remove the pump you have to pull straight back, when you clear the studs you then lift the back end up as you continue to pull the pump out. The M-pump is a little shorter but the same procedure for pulling it. I can pull my pump and adjust it and install in about 20 minutes tops.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
10-05-2009, 07:57 PM #28(10-05-2009, 06:56 PM)shredator(10-05-2009, 03:00 PM)Rudolf_Diesel You can remove the pump without removing the oil filter.
AAWWWWW!!
seriously!? So I didnt have to go through all this? what is the trick?
You have to remove the shut off valve and possibly the idle damping screw as well. Then you have to get the FUCKING rear screw and bracket off - that is the hardest part! When you remove the pump you have to pull straight back, when you clear the studs you then lift the back end up as you continue to pull the pump out. The M-pump is a little shorter but the same procedure for pulling it. I can pull my pump and adjust it and install in about 20 minutes tops.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
ForcedInduction
10-05-2009, 09:20 PM
#29
The M is cake to pull with the filter in place, its got plenty of room behind it. I had to remove the filter to get my MW out though.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
10-05-2009, 10:45 PM #30Before I went ahead and pulled the pump (MW) when I was doing the swap to the M, I contemplated pulling the filter housing - I even bought a gasket. But seeing the glass half full, instead of half empty with a big freakin hole in the bottom, I tried to pull the pump and was successful. I can remember reading about FI's experience with the oil lines and didn't want a repeat. The worse that could happen is I don't get the pump out and I have to pull the oil filter.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
On topic... AWESOME mod!!
I'm anxiously awaiting your results. BTW, put a new gasket on the IP!!!! I didn't and had a 1/qt per 100 mile oil leak that only occurred at speed. It of course happened while I was 500 miles from home.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
I didn't have to take anything off the pump itself, other than that stupid lower rear bracket (argh!!!). I just finagled around with it until it popped right on out. There is a very small window which it will fit out of, but it is very much worth the time spent jiggling the pump around to find it to avoid pulling the oil filter!
On topic... AWESOME mod!! I'm anxiously awaiting your results.
BTW, put a new gasket on the IP!!!! I didn't and had a 1/qt per 100 mile oil leak that only occurred at speed. It of course happened while I was 500 miles from home.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(10-05-2009, 05:24 AM)tomnik(10-02-2009, 12:36 PM)OM616 Looking at the difference in mass between the 5.5mm and the 10mm elements, it would seem to me that the 10mm elements would use/need a stronger return spring, compared to the spring requirements for the 5.5mm elements, to maintain the same high RPM capability as the 5.5mm elements.
Do the stock 10mm element IPs use stronger element return springs?
The compression spring is the same for MW55 and MW100 (1 414 619 014). At least it is used in all MW55 and some MW100
This is the element assembly of the original MW100.
The spring looks pretty strong. Don’t have the pic or dimension of the MW55 spring.
Tom
Good to know, Any Idea what Delivery Valve would be best to use with the 10MM Element?
I have been thinking about the 8MM MW elements, figuring that I would have to massage the helix to allow for more rack travel with out over fueling. I would be afraid that without modifying the helix, the 8MM or 10MM element's throttle response would be very touchy, as in "on or off". I am very curious to hear how the 10s work out.
When combined with honed nozzles, either 8MM or 10MM elements would allow for a grate deal of fuel to be injected in a very short period of time.
(10-05-2009, 05:24 AM)tomnik(10-02-2009, 12:36 PM)OM616 Looking at the difference in mass between the 5.5mm and the 10mm elements, it would seem to me that the 10mm elements would use/need a stronger return spring, compared to the spring requirements for the 5.5mm elements, to maintain the same high RPM capability as the 5.5mm elements.
Do the stock 10mm element IPs use stronger element return springs?
The compression spring is the same for MW55 and MW100 (1 414 619 014). At least it is used in all MW55 and some MW100
This is the element assembly of the original MW100.
The spring looks pretty strong. Don’t have the pic or dimension of the MW55 spring.
Tom
Good to know, Any Idea what Delivery Valve would be best to use with the 10MM Element?
I have been thinking about the 8MM MW elements, figuring that I would have to massage the helix to allow for more rack travel with out over fueling. I would be afraid that without modifying the helix, the 8MM or 10MM element's throttle response would be very touchy, as in "on or off". I am very curious to hear how the 10s work out.
When combined with honed nozzles, either 8MM or 10MM elements would allow for a grate deal of fuel to be injected in a very short period of time.
(10-20-2009, 01:05 PM)George3soccer Yes please do let us know about this. Awaiting the good news.
i know, i know. sorry to take so long. life has really been getting in the way lately
the fasteners that I need to get my 'oil relocation plate' bolted up should arrive next week
(10-21-2009, 11:16 PM)shredator(10-20-2009, 01:05 PM)George3soccer Yes please do let us know about this. Awaiting the good news.
i know, i know. sorry to take so long. life has really been getting in the way lately
the fasteners that I need to get my 'oil relocation plate' bolted up should arrive next week
It is now next week as you said!!!!! Whats up with it? Did you get it in? Whats taking so long?
Sorry I'm like a kid in a candy store waiting on this one!
(10-21-2009, 11:16 PM)shredator(10-20-2009, 01:05 PM)George3soccer Yes please do let us know about this. Awaiting the good news.
i know, i know. sorry to take so long. life has really been getting in the way lately
the fasteners that I need to get my 'oil relocation plate' bolted up should arrive next week
It is now next week as you said!!!!! Whats up with it? Did you get it in? Whats taking so long?
Sorry I'm like a kid in a candy store waiting on this one!
friday will be a furlough (wrenching) day for me. I hope to report on how it runs (if at all) on friday.
the pump and oil filter relocation stuff are bolted up. I need to time the pump, fill everything with oil, hook up an egt gauge, and fire it up. I have not obtained the fittings that i need to hook up the turbo oil supply, so I removed the turbo, and will test without it for now.
friday will be a furlough (wrenching) day for me. I hope to report on how it runs (if at all) on friday.
(10-09-2009, 03:37 PM)tomnik The bench flow don't show a restriction with the MW55 DVs.
That supports how more than a handful of few people feel about modified DVs. They believe that modified DVs don't flow more fuel.
I for one have seen many times what modified or "bigger" DVs will do with a Cummins - and it has been shown here what they do on an IDI Merc. Unfortunately the idle goes to pot on the IDI Mercs. Bummer.
VERY good thread, BTW. I'm looking forward to hearing about your results. Also - you've got balls for buying Chinese injection pump parts - I've seen lots of sites offering lots of inexpensive goodies but never pulled the trigger.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
11-05-2009, 11:58 AM #43(10-09-2009, 03:37 PM)tomnik The bench flow don't show a restriction with the MW55 DVs.
That supports how more than a handful of few people feel about modified DVs. They believe that modified DVs don't flow more fuel.
I for one have seen many times what modified or "bigger" DVs will do with a Cummins - and it has been shown here what they do on an IDI Merc. Unfortunately the idle goes to pot on the IDI Mercs. Bummer.
VERY good thread, BTW. I'm looking forward to hearing about your results. Also - you've got balls for buying Chinese injection pump parts - I've seen lots of sites offering lots of inexpensive goodies but never pulled the trigger.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
11-05-2009, 01:40 PM #44keep up the good work!!! please take some vids when you get it running!!!!! and good luck!!!!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
I am happy to report that it idles, and does not run away. But there are a few issues.
The idle is kinda rough. I noticed that after I shut it down, there was some wetness around some of the injector lines, so I am hoping that its caused by a leak, and not the pump.
There seems to be more smoke at idle than there should be. But then I did time the IP without a drip tube, and its only at 24 btdc. Im hoping that I can clear up some of the smoke by advancing a bit.
There is also a definate hesitation when moving the rack off idle. The engine really boggs down for a while, even if I carefully ease on the throttle. Not sure what to do about that. Could that be a timing problem too? Ideas?
I took a video of it running. I will put it on youtube and link it here shortly.
EDIT:heres the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI-vmoQX_AI I think all the racket scared one of my cats. you can hear it meow loudly right at the end hehe.
Also, here are some pics of the oil relocation stuff in case anyone cares about that stuff.
I woke the neighborhood up this morning with a healthy dose of raw, unmuffled diesely goodness
I am happy to report that it idles, and does not run away. But there are a few issues.
The idle is kinda rough. I noticed that after I shut it down, there was some wetness around some of the injector lines, so I am hoping that its caused by a leak, and not the pump.
There seems to be more smoke at idle than there should be. But then I did time the IP without a drip tube, and its only at 24 btdc. Im hoping that I can clear up some of the smoke by advancing a bit.
There is also a definate hesitation when moving the rack off idle. The engine really boggs down for a while, even if I carefully ease on the throttle. Not sure what to do about that. Could that be a timing problem too? Ideas?
I took a video of it running. I will put it on youtube and link it here shortly.
EDIT:heres the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI-vmoQX_AI I think all the racket scared one of my cats. you can hear it meow loudly right at the end hehe.
Also, here are some pics of the oil relocation stuff in case anyone cares about that stuff.
That is the Idle Governor. It is over counteracting the ever slightly increased engine speed. If you increase the throttle until it bogs down and hold it, will it come back and bog out, come back and bog out, etc (searching)? Then if you continue to gradually increase the throttle will the cycle get faster until the engine takes off and revs up?
If yes, it is an Idle Governor oscillation (in your case radical searching), the Idle Governor can be adjusted to achieve a better balance with the internal throttle spring and bigger elements. The idle Governor is over adjusting (over compensating) with the larger elements.
Some adjustments to the Idle Governor and Throttle and you should be fine. You are in uncharted waters, if this is the only issue you are having, I am very excited!
"There is also a definate hesitation when moving the rack off idle. The engine really boggs down for a while, even if I carefully ease on the throttle. Not sure what to do about that. Could that be a timing problem too? Ideas?"
That is the Idle Governor. It is over counteracting the ever slightly increased engine speed. If you increase the throttle until it bogs down and hold it, will it come back and bog out, come back and bog out, etc (searching)? Then if you continue to gradually increase the throttle will the cycle get faster until the engine takes off and revs up?
If yes, it is an Idle Governor oscillation (in your case radical searching), the Idle Governor can be adjusted to achieve a better balance with the internal throttle spring and bigger elements. The idle Governor is over adjusting (over compensating) with the larger elements.
Some adjustments to the Idle Governor and Throttle and you should be fine. You are in uncharted waters, if this is the only issue you are having, I am very excited!
GREASY_BEAST
11-08-2009, 12:21 AM #47BLOODY AWESOME! Bravo. On a side note, these engines would sound beautiful a supercharger, tubular headers and a straight pipe, no turbo to soften it. With this kind of fuel available, it would be doable. Can't wait until you get it back together! Do let us know how it drives, and what happens when you start turning screws under the rear cover.
Depending on the rebuild cost, and the longevity of the Chinese elements, one could save about $800 over buying a full myna setup.
ForcedInduction
11-09-2009, 02:29 PM
#49
There is no possible way the engine can handle anything remotely close to what 10mm elements can pump out. Myna's 7mm pump supports 450hp on a 5-cylinder, 10mm elements can pump a hair over twice that amount of fuel.
Depending on the rebuild cost, and the longevity of the Chinese elements, one could save about $800 over buying a full myna setup.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
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