w202 2.5 TD power options
w202 2.5 TD power options
I currently have 3 people running 180hp stage 1 ecu's for om605
and 2 with turbo upgrades with goals of 250hp from remaps that run max fuelling with minimal smoke(unlike some manual pumps) out the stock pump with no limp and boost upto 1.7bar.
Is your car auto or manual, ecu works for both.
i also have maps for 6mm/ 8mm pump om605/606
Sean
I can offer chips/ ecus/ sockets.
I currently have 3 people running 180hp stage 1 ecu's for om605
and 2 with turbo upgrades with goals of 250hp from remaps that run max fuelling with minimal smoke(unlike some manual pumps) out the stock pump with no limp and boost upto 1.7bar.
Is your car auto or manual, ecu works for both.
i also have maps for 6mm/ 8mm pump om605/606
Sean
Here you go, thats how to fool your ecu. But i think you should keep an eye on egt´s. Mine was pretty high depending on what resistor you use. It´s a pretty good thing to start with to increase power.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...light=evry
Here you go, thats how to fool your ecu. But i think you should keep an eye on egt´s. Mine was pretty high depending on what resistor you use. It´s a pretty good thing to start with to increase power.
I have done this mod over the weekend and it seems to be working well, giving a decent-ish boost in power that cost me around £1.20 and about an hour of my time.
The only thing now... There is a hell of a lot of smoke being thrown out the back even when on full chat and higher up in the revs which is making me think the tiny turbo cant keep up...
Is there anything that can be done to up the boost without bricking or sending my car into limp mode?
I do work for a nitrous company in the UK and I am planning to put a spare nitrous system onto the car but if I cant adjust the boost up any more then I wont get the full effect of the nitrous..
Any more info on pushing more power out of these would be great.
Thanks.
Thanks. That was the exact thread I was looking for.
I have done this mod over the weekend and it seems to be working well, giving a decent-ish boost in power that cost me around £1.20 and about an hour of my time.
The only thing now... There is a hell of a lot of smoke being thrown out the back even when on full chat and higher up in the revs which is making me think the tiny turbo cant keep up...
Is there anything that can be done to up the boost without bricking or sending my car into limp mode?
I do work for a nitrous company in the UK and I am planning to put a spare nitrous system onto the car but if I cant adjust the boost up any more then I wont get the full effect of the nitrous..
Any more info on pushing more power out of these would be great.
Thanks.
So as soon as the ecu see's 1.4bar it reduces my fuelling?
I think I may already be experiencing this.. If i have my throttle at about 75% (just at the start of my extra fuelling, as I have set up on a microswitch on the throttle) there seems to be a sudden boost in power and then I get the engine management light come on until I let go of the pedal.
If I go full on using kickdown and the switch for more fuel is added again then the engine management light does come on again but the car seems to maintain the higher power and smoke like crazy...
when you say 1.4, I assume you mean bar?
So as soon as the ecu see's 1.4bar it reduces my fuelling?
I think I may already be experiencing this.. If i have my throttle at about 75% (just at the start of my extra fuelling, as I have set up on a microswitch on the throttle) there seems to be a sudden boost in power and then I get the engine management light come on until I let go of the pedal.
If I go full on using kickdown and the switch for more fuel is added again then the engine management light does come on again but the car seems to maintain the higher power and smoke like crazy...
The evry mod can only do so much. The turbo controller will be outside its range trying to maintain boost. And you'll be fuelling to much based on the airflow. The turbo can run up to 1.4bar with no smoke and make good power done properly.
But getting evry mod to do that accurately is where people give up.
Keep an eye on egt carefully. Many people have overheated and blown stock engines with stock turbos due to this.
No when you put a resistor across the map sensor. The ecu sees lower boost. So reduces its fuelling. And the ecu raises the turbo boost thinking its lower.
The evry mod can only do so much. The turbo controller will be outside its range trying to maintain boost. And you'll be fuelling to much based on the airflow. The turbo can run up to 1.4bar with no smoke and make good power done properly.
But getting evry mod to do that accurately is where people give up.
Keep an eye on egt carefully. Many people have overheated and blown stock engines with stock turbos due to this.
So whats the normal procedure for getting more power from these then?
I have had experience with my old 306 XUD9 which I modified with a bigger turbo and the bosch VE pump which had the internals modified and turned up. I made 196hp on the rollers with that.
Do these require more things to be changed and modified due to the ECU side?
Thanks
ahh right okay I see what you mean now.
So whats the normal procedure for getting more power from these then?
I have had experience with my old 306 XUD9 which I modified with a bigger turbo and the bosch VE pump which had the internals modified and turned up. I made 196hp on the rollers with that.
Do these require more things to be changed and modified due to the ECU side?
Thanks
You can still make good power with stock items.
But swapping turbos requires a remap to get the most.
Upper rev torque limits, limit real power gains even with very mod.
It all depends how far you want to go. Few people testing new turbos on the c250td with remaps. So expect to see some dynos or results soon. I'd imagine in the 250hp mark before putting a new pump in.
Older mechanical pumps are easier to tune but need bigger elements etc and inherently have a high cost before you choose a turbo.
Ecu keeps control of everything.
You can still make good power with stock items.
But swapping turbos requires a remap to get the most.
Upper rev torque limits, limit real power gains even with very mod.
It all depends how far you want to go. Few people testing new turbos on the c250td with remaps. So expect to see some dynos or results soon. I'd imagine in the 250hp mark before putting a new pump in.
Older mechanical pumps are easier to tune but need bigger elements etc and inherently have a high cost before you choose a turbo.
It will be interesting to see what these people make with testing these new turbos but yeah, If i could get it remapped and then change the turbo around and get 250, then that would be cool.
I am on an automatic box so I know that I will be limited at some point.
At the moment, I am kind of thinking about but then thinking that the money could be spent on building another car which would be half the weight of the merc but twice as fast, but I do want to give the merc a chance becase it is a nice car to drive, very comfy and quiet but the standard power really isnt good..
Thanks
If I could make 250hp, I would be more than happy but I really would have to do it all on a budget.
It will be interesting to see what these people make with testing these new turbos but yeah, If i could get it remapped and then change the turbo around and get 250, then that would be cool.
I am on an automatic box so I know that I will be limited at some point.
At the moment, I am kind of thinking about but then thinking that the money could be spent on building another car which would be half the weight of the merc but twice as fast, but I do want to give the merc a chance becase it is a nice car to drive, very comfy and quiet but the standard power really isnt good..
Thanks
Om605 is a t20 / t25 variant.
Sockets and chips supplied I sell for €100 for you to fit.
These can be any map.
One of those gt2871 was sent to a turbo shop to get balanced and they said it wasn't bad at all. So could be something to consider. But they do need to have there wastegate ported.
Its something to consider without going to a hx35.
Om606 is kkk k14
Om605 is a t20 / t25 variant.
Sockets and chips supplied I sell for €100 for you to fit.
These can be any map.
One of those gt2871 was sent to a turbo shop to get balanced and they said it wasn't bad at all. So could be something to consider. But they do need to have there wastegate ported.
Its something to consider without going to a hx35.
ahh that's not a bad price to be honest mate. So you can map to suit my needs then?
Right okay, I would possibly have a look to see if I could find a genuine garrett... I've had a few mates have some bad luck with the chinky turbos ://
I have see a few of these with the hx35's on but i'm guessing for 250hp, the holset will be a bit overkill for that power?
So with mine being the t25 variant, the gt2871 should be the same flange fitment right?
ahh that's not a bad price to be honest mate. So you can map to suit my needs then?
Right okay, I would possibly have a look to see if I could find a genuine garrett... I've had a few mates have some bad luck with the chinky turbos ://
I have see a few of these with the hx35's on but i'm guessing for 250hp, the holset will be a bit overkill for that power?
I used a Td04 on my old 306 which is quite a common mod for them but was pretty well suited for the 1.9.
I want useable power, the gt28xx seems like a decent sized turbo for the power I am after to be honest.
Can your maps remove the boost limiting factor then?
I had a feeling you would say that...
I used a Td04 on my old 306 which is quite a common mod for them but was pretty well suited for the 1.9.
I want useable power, the gt28xx seems like a decent sized turbo for the power I am after to be honest.
Can your maps remove the boost limiting factor then?
That's 1.7bar
I'm going to start using a 50psi(a) sensor on my own car when I fit my he351 hybrid and rescale so it can see up to 2.4bar then without shifting the scale too much.
Don't the 306 guys fit om606 turbos to there 1.9?
Yeah they run right up to the map sensor limit.
That's 1.7bar
I'm going to start using a 50psi(a) sensor on my own car when I fit my he351 hybrid and rescale so it can see up to 2.4bar then without shifting the scale too much.
Don't the 306 guys fit om606 turbos to there 1.9?
What are the standard intercoolers good upto boost wise? And that idea with the sensor makes sense.
I think the om606 turbo on the xud was one of the upgrades people go with yeah.. They use td04, gt20's etc , been a couple moving over to vnt too.
That's not too bad then.
What are the standard intercoolers good upto boost wise? And that idea with the sensor makes sense.
I think the om606 turbo on the xud was one of the upgrades people go with yeah.. They use td04, gt20's etc , been a couple moving over to vnt too.
Thanks
I have now decided to take off the rack fooling mod after reading up about people having their engines go pop due to high EGT's which is exactly what I don't want. luckily, i only used it in short 5-10 second bursts, if that.. so hopefully no damage. Is this a major problem that I could run into with having a bigger turbo and more fuel going in there? Will I have to change the exhaust manifold or will a straight pipe be adequate?
Thanks
The stock manifold is used by alot of people still and used to create decent power so its not an issue now but upto a point it is.
Some people convert to a pressure waste-gate and control boost themselves by a dawes device or electronic controller.
But youd need a remap to take advantage of that allowing for your own boost settings and also having a proper fuelling map based on boost, rather than too much like with evry mod.
The problem with backpressure is due to the stock turbo's exhaust housing, the problem with egt is related but mainly due to the rich mixture of fuel based on airflow. if you can raise the boost for the same fuel you can lower egt.
The stock manifold is used by alot of people still and used to create decent power so its not an issue now but upto a point it is.
Some people convert to a pressure waste-gate and control boost themselves by a dawes device or electronic controller.
But youd need a remap to take advantage of that allowing for your own boost settings and also having a proper fuelling map based on boost, rather than too much like with evry mod.
do you have any more info on your sockets and chips? I will need a run down on how to install them if I go ahead and get one from yourself. I definitely want to go ahead with this and get more power out of her though. if I can go for bigger turbo, map and nitrous combo and make good reliable power then I'll be happy.
okay yeah that makes sense. I don't think I will be wanting to go any more than 300hp really, so hopefully the manifold will be good for around that.
do you have any more info on your sockets and chips? I will need a run down on how to install them if I go ahead and get one from yourself. I definitely want to go ahead with this and get more power out of her though. if I can go for bigger turbo, map and nitrous combo and make good reliable power then I'll be happy.
I use chip-quick to de-solder the original chips and then cleanup any old solder on the contacts.
You then remove the centre from the sockets flux the contacts and solder one at at time making sure the orientation is correct and clip the chips in order.
Stage 1 is slight increase in fuel and boost but will also allow upto 1.7bar if the turbo is not ecu controlled.
Stage 2 is raised to the limit of minimal smoke from off-boost right upto 1.7bar, this map will also control the stock turbo upto about 1.3-1.4bar.
but i wouldnt use it for long with a stock turbo.
Its really for a larger turbo and will give upto 250hp without limp mode or getting to the rack limit.
this map is much different to stage 1 so people swapping turbos get the best out of there stock pump.
beyond 250hp your into bigger elements in the injection pump.
I use chip-quick to de-solder the original chips and then cleanup any old solder on the contacts.
You then remove the centre from the sockets flux the contacts and solder one at at time making sure the orientation is correct and clip the chips in order.
Stage 1 is slight increase in fuel and boost but will also allow upto 1.7bar if the turbo is not ecu controlled.
Stage 2 is raised to the limit of minimal smoke from off-boost right upto 1.7bar, this map will also control the stock turbo upto about 1.3-1.4bar.
but i wouldnt use it for long with a stock turbo.
Its really for a larger turbo and will give upto 250hp without limp mode or getting to the rack limit.
this map is much different to stage 1 so people swapping turbos get the best out of there stock pump.
I am familiar with soldering on boards like i mentioned with soldering on Honda ECU's, so it shouldn't be a problem.
I think the stage 2 map would be what I go for when I can sort out a turbo from somewhere. is there any chance you could allow a little more smoke boost off-boost if I needed it? I am just thinking for nitrous you see?
Also do you have any idea of where the limit is of the auto box is power and torque wise?
Just thought I would mention that I totally appreciate the help you're giving me here, even if you will be getting money off me more than likely
Thanks
yeah I don't really fancy playing around with IP just yet.. I need to get to know about these cars a bit more first really.
I am familiar with soldering on boards like i mentioned with soldering on Honda ECU's, so it shouldn't be a problem.
I think the stage 2 map would be what I go for when I can sort out a turbo from somewhere. is there any chance you could allow a little more smoke boost off-boost if I needed it? I am just thinking for nitrous you see?
Also do you have any idea of where the limit is of the auto box is power and torque wise?
Just thought I would mention that I totally appreciate the help you're giving me here, even if you will be getting money off me more than likely
Thanks
yeah stage 2 is so people can get the max without smoke, but it can be raised a little further if thats what is wanted.
Most people like a fast daily that doesnt attract too much attention.
I doubt you would need too much more fuel off boost if your planning on running nitrous though.
I used to do hondata modules on honda ecus also and de-immo them for people doing b/16/18 swaps or tuning.
yeah stage 2 is so people can get the max without smoke, but it can be raised a little further if thats what is wanted.
Most people like a fast daily that doesnt attract too much attention.
I doubt you would need too much more fuel off boost if your planning on running nitrous though.
A fast daily is exactly what I'm after without attracting too much attention from the police.
Yeah, I wouldn't need a great deal more fuel off boost really, just a little bit more over the whole rev range more than likely but not too much that I would be throwing out clouds when off nitrous.
When you mentioned turbo flanges earlier... is this something I would have to fabricate or is there something that can be bought?
ahh that's cool. you obviously have a lot more experience with doing than me!
A fast daily is exactly what I'm after without attracting too much attention from the police.
Yeah, I wouldn't need a great deal more fuel off boost really, just a little bit more over the whole rev range more than likely but not too much that I would be throwing out clouds when off nitrous.
When you mentioned turbo flanges earlier... is this something I would have to fabricate or is there something that can be bought?
Then youd need to redo the downpipe and run new oil lines, and extend the intercooler pipe.
I cant comment on how good the stock intercooler is but if your gaining 100hp id recommend going to an e300td (minimum) or universal style.
But its totally worth the work.
Youd need an adapter to go from 3bolt to t3 fitting, and this would relocate the turbo, because the steering box provides problems for people in c250td
Then youd need to redo the downpipe and run new oil lines, and extend the intercooler pipe.
I cant comment on how good the stock intercooler is but if your gaining 100hp id recommend going to an e300td (minimum) or universal style.
But its totally worth the work.
The intercooler, new turbo oil lines and extending the intercooler pipework shouldn't be a problem to do myself.
Is there plenty of room behind the bumper for a decently sized cooler then? I assume there is?
Okay, so it looks like adapting this flange is going to be a pain in the arse, I am going to have to have a look and see if I can get one made up first before I go ahead and choose a turbo.
The intercooler, new turbo oil lines and extending the intercooler pipework shouldn't be a problem to do myself.
Is there plenty of room behind the bumper for a decently sized cooler then? I assume there is?
(05-17-2016, 12:02 PM)LewisG95 This is the car I will be modifying anyway
Nice ride man
We're going down the same route with tuning. I've got two of Seans ECUs already, one with 180hp map for my stock daily and the "max the stock pump out" map for my project car. They are a revelation in terms of flexibility and cost as you loose the immobiliser meaning you can swap them from C250 TD to C250 TD provided both cars are either facelift or pre facelift.
The 250hp map does work fine on the stock setup when being driven with light to medium throttle and under kickdown, but under full throttle without kickdown the ECU is obviously struggling to control the boost spikes/ is out of its range so you get a surging effect at times. Turbo will probably die quite quickly so I only tried it briefly!
I can confirm that this GT28 turbo appears to be a good one for the money and can be rebuilt using genuine parts or atleast trusted aftermarket parts, then rebalanced which should give you a reliable long lasting turbo for use up to 1.5 bar boost. Above 1.5 bar and you need a 360 degree thrust bearing, however there are rumours that above 1.5 bar the associated EGTs weaken the friction welding on the turbine wheel too. So it's probably best to use the turbo below 1.5 bar which should still realise all the power the stock I.P has to offer.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T25-T28-GT25-G...Swqu9VUweD
It's made by maxpeedingrods. By the looks of it it's likely you can just use that turbo out of the box with no issues as QC seems to be OK on them. Worst thing I read about was the oil seals blowing into the exhaust, but that could've been user error using it on an engine with huge oil pressure.
Cheapest place I found for rebuilding with new seals and bearings, then balancing and testing was Turbocharger Services in Huddersfield. They were fairly impressed with it and said it would've been OK to use out of the box (bearings and seals OK) so maybe I went OTT getting it rebuilt!
To make your adaptor you need two long radius mild steel pipe bends. Steel pipe is specified by its O.D and the closest you'll find is 48.3 O.D X 3.2 wall thickness. I got mine from Parker Steel. These are commonly use to make hand rails and have an I.D of 1.6" so a tiny bit of porting will be needed on the manifold outlet.
You can go to 2" pipe on the adaptor by significantly porting the manifold outlet, but I'm not sure it's necessary for 250hp. It's not as simple as the pipe wall gets very close to the bolts etc. After all a remapped OM606 manages 220hp with a stock turbo and stock manifold with the same 1.5" outlet and I believe the reason for it not being able to handle more is, like the 605, the size of the turbo which has a minuscule exhaust housing which tapers down to about 1" just before the turbine. GT28 is a lot bigger and so shouldn't present any EGT or EGP issues at 250hp, once the stupidly small wastegate hole has been ported (which is easy with a carefully used die grinder with the exhaust housing removed from CHRA).
The T2 flange can be bought laser cut off ebay easily for a tenner but the 3 bolt flange will need to be made though there is someone selling them on STD FB group.
I paid £20 to get a local engineering firm to make mine and had it machined so that the pipe slots perfectly into the flange ensuring perfect alignment.
I'm at the stage of mocking up the whole setup on my donor car right now. Its been delayed after I badly sprained my thumb but im getting there.
The donor car has made it much easier as I was able to weld a support off the inner wing for the T2 flange so I can leave it bolted in place without the new turbo there... so access for getting the pipe sections fitting nicely is easy. I'll set up a project thread ASAP.
charlysays
05-19-2016, 09:19 AM #29(05-17-2016, 12:02 PM)LewisG95 This is the car I will be modifying anyway
Nice ride man
We're going down the same route with tuning. I've got two of Seans ECUs already, one with 180hp map for my stock daily and the "max the stock pump out" map for my project car. They are a revelation in terms of flexibility and cost as you loose the immobiliser meaning you can swap them from C250 TD to C250 TD provided both cars are either facelift or pre facelift.
The 250hp map does work fine on the stock setup when being driven with light to medium throttle and under kickdown, but under full throttle without kickdown the ECU is obviously struggling to control the boost spikes/ is out of its range so you get a surging effect at times. Turbo will probably die quite quickly so I only tried it briefly!
I can confirm that this GT28 turbo appears to be a good one for the money and can be rebuilt using genuine parts or atleast trusted aftermarket parts, then rebalanced which should give you a reliable long lasting turbo for use up to 1.5 bar boost. Above 1.5 bar and you need a 360 degree thrust bearing, however there are rumours that above 1.5 bar the associated EGTs weaken the friction welding on the turbine wheel too. So it's probably best to use the turbo below 1.5 bar which should still realise all the power the stock I.P has to offer.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T25-T28-GT25-G...Swqu9VUweD
It's made by maxpeedingrods. By the looks of it it's likely you can just use that turbo out of the box with no issues as QC seems to be OK on them. Worst thing I read about was the oil seals blowing into the exhaust, but that could've been user error using it on an engine with huge oil pressure.
Cheapest place I found for rebuilding with new seals and bearings, then balancing and testing was Turbocharger Services in Huddersfield. They were fairly impressed with it and said it would've been OK to use out of the box (bearings and seals OK) so maybe I went OTT getting it rebuilt!
To make your adaptor you need two long radius mild steel pipe bends. Steel pipe is specified by its O.D and the closest you'll find is 48.3 O.D X 3.2 wall thickness. I got mine from Parker Steel. These are commonly use to make hand rails and have an I.D of 1.6" so a tiny bit of porting will be needed on the manifold outlet.
You can go to 2" pipe on the adaptor by significantly porting the manifold outlet, but I'm not sure it's necessary for 250hp. It's not as simple as the pipe wall gets very close to the bolts etc. After all a remapped OM606 manages 220hp with a stock turbo and stock manifold with the same 1.5" outlet and I believe the reason for it not being able to handle more is, like the 605, the size of the turbo which has a minuscule exhaust housing which tapers down to about 1" just before the turbine. GT28 is a lot bigger and so shouldn't present any EGT or EGP issues at 250hp, once the stupidly small wastegate hole has been ported (which is easy with a carefully used die grinder with the exhaust housing removed from CHRA).
The T2 flange can be bought laser cut off ebay easily for a tenner but the 3 bolt flange will need to be made though there is someone selling them on STD FB group.
I paid £20 to get a local engineering firm to make mine and had it machined so that the pipe slots perfectly into the flange ensuring perfect alignment.
I'm at the stage of mocking up the whole setup on my donor car right now. Its been delayed after I badly sprained my thumb but im getting there.
The donor car has made it much easier as I was able to weld a support off the inner wing for the T2 flange so I can leave it bolted in place without the new turbo there... so access for getting the pipe sections fitting nicely is easy. I'll set up a project thread ASAP.
Thanks dude
I have just had a good read through this, I'm glad there is someone going through the same process as me at the same time.
The one thing I was mainly concerned with was the steel pipe size and where to find this 3 bolt flange, so I can't thank you enough for giving me some guidance on the size of the pipe. I do have a few local fabricators near me so hopefully they'll e able to knock me up one of those triangular flanges.
Those ebay turbo's do seem like a very decent option to go for but when I have swapped turbo's on other cars, I have always tried to go for genuine makes, Garrett, KKK, IHI etc.. There's something about the chinky turbo's that I just don't trust.
Yes! you should definitely get a project thread up. Then I can just go ahead and copy you
Hi charleysays,
Thanks dude
I have just had a good read through this, I'm glad there is someone going through the same process as me at the same time.
The one thing I was mainly concerned with was the steel pipe size and where to find this 3 bolt flange, so I can't thank you enough for giving me some guidance on the size of the pipe. I do have a few local fabricators near me so hopefully they'll e able to knock me up one of those triangular flanges.
Those ebay turbo's do seem like a very decent option to go for but when I have swapped turbo's on other cars, I have always tried to go for genuine makes, Garrett, KKK, IHI etc.. There's something about the chinky turbo's that I just don't trust.
Yes! you should definitely get a project thread up. Then I can just go ahead and copy you
Seanyt, would the stock turbo, IP and exhaust be ok to use with your stage 1 chip?
(Not meaning to hijack your thread Lewis!).
silestanix
05-22-2016, 04:16 AM #31I'll be watching you both with your mods and tunes Lewis & Charleysays! I'm looking to do the same to my C250TD as I do a Lot of motorway driving and so I want a bit more power, 180ish seems fine though but I haven't got a clue with ECU's and soldering!
Seanyt, would the stock turbo, IP and exhaust be ok to use with your stage 1 chip?
(Not meaning to hijack your thread Lewis!).
(05-22-2016, 04:20 AM)seanyt Stage 1 is specifically for stock cars, exhaust or air filter will help a little.
But once the stock turbo is swapped then your getting into the 220-250hp mark and everything will want to flow better.
I'm running a K&N Panel filter (which also happened to fix a slight flat spot I had), stock exhaust however would getting rid of the back box or centre box help? Ie which would be more effective? Looking for more torque really, HP not so much just more torque for overtaking.
In addition, if I came across to Ireland, could you do the chip for me bud? I don't know anyone I can trust wih my car here except the garage I use (Wayne Gates), and I don't think they solder etc...besides I Need a holiday anyway so might as well!
Cheers btw Sean.
silestanix
05-22-2016, 04:58 AM #33(05-22-2016, 04:20 AM)seanyt Stage 1 is specifically for stock cars, exhaust or air filter will help a little.
But once the stock turbo is swapped then your getting into the 220-250hp mark and everything will want to flow better.
I'm running a K&N Panel filter (which also happened to fix a slight flat spot I had), stock exhaust however would getting rid of the back box or centre box help? Ie which would be more effective? Looking for more torque really, HP not so much just more torque for overtaking.
In addition, if I came across to Ireland, could you do the chip for me bud? I don't know anyone I can trust wih my car here except the garage I use (Wayne Gates), and I don't think they solder etc...besides I Need a holiday anyway so might as well!
Cheers btw Sean.
The stock turbo map is very conservative. So that can be changed to bring it in more aggressively giving you better low down torque. This is already done with stage but can be modified more if desired.
Yeah if your over I can do the ecu for you. Your stock exhaust would be fine. Especially leaving it at 180hp.
The stock turbo map is very conservative. So that can be changed to bring it in more aggressively giving you better low down torque. This is already done with stage but can be modified more if desired.
(05-22-2016, 04:58 AM)silestanix(05-22-2016, 04:20 AM)seanyt Stage 1 is specifically for stock cars, exhaust or air filter will help a little.
But once the stock turbo is swapped then your getting into the 220-250hp mark and everything will want to flow better.
I'm running a K&N Panel filter (which also happened to fix a slight flat spot I had), stock exhaust however would getting rid of the back box or centre box help? Ie which would be more effective? Looking for more torque really, HP not so much just more torque for overtaking.
In addition, if I came across to Ireland, could you do the chip for me bud? I don't know anyone I can trust wih my car here except the garage I use (Wayne Gates), and I don't think they solder etc...besides I Need a holiday anyway so might as well!
Cheers btw Sean.
Delete the centre silencer and cat for a noticeable difference, it's the size and weight of a suitcase. you'll have to fit a silhouette cat in the straight pipe to pass the 'visual inspection of the catalytic converter' part of the MOT though.
I did mine from clamp together 2.5" SS eBay pipe sections because hate welding zorst..
it will still be quiet if you keep the rear box mind.
Oh there's no space for a bigger IC behind the bumper, you'd have to cut out some of the front x-member and probably delete the AC condenser to get anything meaningfully bigger in there.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(05-22-2016, 04:58 AM)silestanix(05-22-2016, 04:20 AM)seanyt Stage 1 is specifically for stock cars, exhaust or air filter will help a little.
But once the stock turbo is swapped then your getting into the 220-250hp mark and everything will want to flow better.
I'm running a K&N Panel filter (which also happened to fix a slight flat spot I had), stock exhaust however would getting rid of the back box or centre box help? Ie which would be more effective? Looking for more torque really, HP not so much just more torque for overtaking.
In addition, if I came across to Ireland, could you do the chip for me bud? I don't know anyone I can trust wih my car here except the garage I use (Wayne Gates), and I don't think they solder etc...besides I Need a holiday anyway so might as well!
Cheers btw Sean.
Delete the centre silencer and cat for a noticeable difference, it's the size and weight of a suitcase. you'll have to fit a silhouette cat in the straight pipe to pass the 'visual inspection of the catalytic converter' part of the MOT though.
I did mine from clamp together 2.5" SS eBay pipe sections because hate welding zorst..
it will still be quiet if you keep the rear box mind.
Oh there's no space for a bigger IC behind the bumper, you'd have to cut out some of the front x-member and probably delete the AC condenser to get anything meaningfully bigger in there.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(05-23-2016, 04:23 AM)Hario(05-22-2016, 04:58 AM)silestanix(05-22-2016, 04:20 AM)seanyt Stage 1 is specifically for stock cars, exhaust or air filter will help a little.
But once the stock turbo is swapped then your getting into the 220-250hp mark and everything will want to flow better.
I'm running a K&N Panel filter (which also happened to fix a slight flat spot I had), stock exhaust however would getting rid of the back box or centre box help? Ie which would be more effective? Looking for more torque really, HP not so much just more torque for overtaking.
In addition, if I came across to Ireland, could you do the chip for me bud? I don't know anyone I can trust wih my car here except the garage I use (Wayne Gates), and I don't think they solder etc...besides I Need a holiday anyway so might as well!
Cheers btw Sean.
Delete the centre silencer and cat for a noticeable difference, it's the size and weight of a suitcase. you'll have to fit a silhouette cat in the straight pipe to pass the 'visual inspection of the catalytic converter' part of the MOT though.
I did mine from clamp together 2.5" SS eBay pipe sections because hate welding zorst..
it will still be quiet if you keep the rear box mind.
Oh there's no space for a bigger IC behind the bumper, you'd have to cut out some of the front x-member and probably delete the AC condenser to get anything meaningfully bigger in there.
Mine only has one box in the centre H, and then the back box, what I was thinking was to get a length of pipe section same diameter as the exhaust, then get my welder to open up the middle box from the top, empty out the box itself and then insert the pipe from end to end. Once that's done then close up + place the middle box back where it was. I only say this as I don't know if my middle box is a combined cat+silencer like on my previous volvo or whether it's Just a silencer.
Thankfully I've got no AC as it screws with my health lol, just seen that you're in London too right? Mind if I pass through and have a look at your W202 bud?
silestanix
05-23-2016, 10:59 AM #36(05-23-2016, 04:23 AM)Hario(05-22-2016, 04:58 AM)silestanix(05-22-2016, 04:20 AM)seanyt Stage 1 is specifically for stock cars, exhaust or air filter will help a little.
But once the stock turbo is swapped then your getting into the 220-250hp mark and everything will want to flow better.
I'm running a K&N Panel filter (which also happened to fix a slight flat spot I had), stock exhaust however would getting rid of the back box or centre box help? Ie which would be more effective? Looking for more torque really, HP not so much just more torque for overtaking.
In addition, if I came across to Ireland, could you do the chip for me bud? I don't know anyone I can trust wih my car here except the garage I use (Wayne Gates), and I don't think they solder etc...besides I Need a holiday anyway so might as well!
Cheers btw Sean.
Delete the centre silencer and cat for a noticeable difference, it's the size and weight of a suitcase. you'll have to fit a silhouette cat in the straight pipe to pass the 'visual inspection of the catalytic converter' part of the MOT though.
I did mine from clamp together 2.5" SS eBay pipe sections because hate welding zorst..
it will still be quiet if you keep the rear box mind.
Oh there's no space for a bigger IC behind the bumper, you'd have to cut out some of the front x-member and probably delete the AC condenser to get anything meaningfully bigger in there.
Mine only has one box in the centre H, and then the back box, what I was thinking was to get a length of pipe section same diameter as the exhaust, then get my welder to open up the middle box from the top, empty out the box itself and then insert the pipe from end to end. Once that's done then close up + place the middle box back where it was. I only say this as I don't know if my middle box is a combined cat+silencer like on my previous volvo or whether it's Just a silencer.
Thankfully I've got no AC as it screws with my health lol, just seen that you're in London too right? Mind if I pass through and have a look at your W202 bud?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(05-23-2016, 11:28 AM)starynovy Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
silestanix
05-23-2016, 05:07 PM #38(05-23-2016, 11:28 AM)starynovy Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Well, depending on condition of engine that catalyst is dead anyway might even be clodged with soot. When you replace that bottleneck turbo then maybe at some 250PS you want to get rid of back box, for now it is of least concern.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
silestanix
05-24-2016, 05:41 AM #40So if the middle box/cat is clogged with soot & other stuff then removing it is better surely...? Which is what H suggested...
silestanix
05-24-2016, 04:29 PM #41Just want to add btw (and adding to hijacking Lewis's thread lol), I'm Not looking for over 180hp, so I won't be replacing any turbo at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Well for that power.. might be good checking on that catalyst if its good, if so leave it be. My car has something close to 500 000 and it was like new. Some people tend to put shit in gas tank, like oils because it will drive on it.. yes but it will fuck everything up in process including clodging your catalyst.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
silestanix
05-26-2016, 03:23 AM #43Ah yes. My fuel tank was dropped a month after I bought the car as I wanted to check the tank strainer but it was all good, only diesel in it and no other residue.
(05-25-2016, 12:14 PM)starynovy Well for that power.. might be good checking on that catalyst if its good, if so leave it be. My car has something close to 500 000 and it was like new. Some people tend to put shit in gas tank, like oils because it will drive on it.. yes but it will fuck everything up in process including clodging your catalyst.
It won't if you do some simple preparation to the engine. My C250 TD has clocked up 85,000 miles on pure recycled chip fat. Its never failed to start, never broken down and gets low smoke readings at the yearly inspection. It doesn't burn engine oil and runs smooth, starting first time.
I agree you will get serious problems with gummed piston rings within 40k miles if there's no prep done to the engine though.
I don't run a cat. but if I did I'm sure it would stay clean due to my water injection kit bunging super heated steam through it. The injector nozzles and combustion chambers/ pistons stay clean for sure.
charlysays
06-07-2016, 10:17 AM #44(05-25-2016, 12:14 PM)starynovy Well for that power.. might be good checking on that catalyst if its good, if so leave it be. My car has something close to 500 000 and it was like new. Some people tend to put shit in gas tank, like oils because it will drive on it.. yes but it will fuck everything up in process including clodging your catalyst.
It won't if you do some simple preparation to the engine. My C250 TD has clocked up 85,000 miles on pure recycled chip fat. Its never failed to start, never broken down and gets low smoke readings at the yearly inspection. It doesn't burn engine oil and runs smooth, starting first time.
I agree you will get serious problems with gummed piston rings within 40k miles if there's no prep done to the engine though.
I don't run a cat. but if I did I'm sure it would stay clean due to my water injection kit bunging super heated steam through it. The injector nozzles and combustion chambers/ pistons stay clean for sure.
(05-23-2016, 05:07 PM)silestanix(05-23-2016, 11:28 AM)starynovy Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
That is what I did and I would recommend it.
The back box adds little restriction, the middle box/ Cat. certainly does.
Replace it with a piece of straight pipe.
If there ever comes a time when not having a cat. on an old diesel will cause an MOT failure, you can weld it back in and it will be in better condition than if you'd left it on the car.
charlysays
06-07-2016, 10:20 AM #45(05-23-2016, 05:07 PM)silestanix(05-23-2016, 11:28 AM)starynovy Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
That is what I did and I would recommend it.
The back box adds little restriction, the middle box/ Cat. certainly does.
Replace it with a piece of straight pipe.
If there ever comes a time when not having a cat. on an old diesel will cause an MOT failure, you can weld it back in and it will be in better condition than if you'd left it on the car.
(06-07-2016, 10:20 AM)charlysays(05-23-2016, 05:07 PM)silestanix(05-23-2016, 11:28 AM)starynovy Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
That is what I did and I would recommend it.
The back box adds little restriction, the middle box/ Cat. certainly does.
Replace it with a piece of straight pipe.
If there ever comes a time when not having a cat. on an old diesel will cause an MOT failure, you can weld it back in and it will be in better condition than if you'd left it on the car.
This is what I thought. I'd keep the backbox as I still want the car to have reasonable comfort and quietness. If my MOT tester ever leaves then I'll just get it welded in at MOT time or leave flanges on each end so I can add/remove it when required.
silestanix
06-08-2016, 12:00 AM #46(06-07-2016, 10:20 AM)charlysays(05-23-2016, 05:07 PM)silestanix(05-23-2016, 11:28 AM)starynovy Yes, it is combined silencer-catalyst. Personally I did not see any difference with whole OE exhasut and 63mm straight pipe. But of course with good exhaust system, that straight-five is gonna give you goose bumps-by good I do not mean pipe from turbo to bumper. Thats sad way of doing it, and you will learn your mistake soon enough.
Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
That is what I did and I would recommend it.
The back box adds little restriction, the middle box/ Cat. certainly does.
Replace it with a piece of straight pipe.
If there ever comes a time when not having a cat. on an old diesel will cause an MOT failure, you can weld it back in and it will be in better condition than if you'd left it on the car.
This is what I thought. I'd keep the backbox as I still want the car to have reasonable comfort and quietness. If my MOT tester ever leaves then I'll just get it welded in at MOT time or leave flanges on each end so I can add/remove it when required.
(06-08-2016, 12:00 AM)silestanix(06-07-2016, 10:20 AM)charlysays(05-23-2016, 05:07 PM)silestanix Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
That is what I did and I would recommend it.
The back box adds little restriction, the middle box/ Cat. certainly does.
Replace it with a piece of straight pipe.
If there ever comes a time when not having a cat. on an old diesel will cause an MOT failure, you can weld it back in and it will be in better condition than if you'd left it on the car.
This is what I thought. I'd keep the backbox as I still want the car to have reasonable comfort and quietness. If my MOT tester ever leaves then I'll just get it welded in at MOT time or leave flanges on each end so I can add/remove it when required.
It will fail the MOT if you delete the cat, visual inspection only for the MOT, so I hollowed out a small cylindrical cat and welded it into the length of pipe which deleted the centre cat/silencer thing.
Sure, I am in Wandsworth.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(06-08-2016, 12:00 AM)silestanix(06-07-2016, 10:20 AM)charlysays(05-23-2016, 05:07 PM)silestanix Thing is, my CAT/Silencer box is 19 almost 20 years old...so I'm looking to improve things. I wouldn't remove All of the silencers, just the middle one, and I would leave the back box as standard as that section is only 1 year old. Your thoughts...?
That is what I did and I would recommend it.
The back box adds little restriction, the middle box/ Cat. certainly does.
Replace it with a piece of straight pipe.
If there ever comes a time when not having a cat. on an old diesel will cause an MOT failure, you can weld it back in and it will be in better condition than if you'd left it on the car.
This is what I thought. I'd keep the backbox as I still want the car to have reasonable comfort and quietness. If my MOT tester ever leaves then I'll just get it welded in at MOT time or leave flanges on each end so I can add/remove it when required.
It will fail the MOT if you delete the cat, visual inspection only for the MOT, so I hollowed out a small cylindrical cat and welded it into the length of pipe which deleted the centre cat/silencer thing.
Sure, I am in Wandsworth.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
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