Glow plug wiring
Glow plug wiring
I am going to be putting my om606 into a different car and wondering with regards tp the glow plugs can i use the controller from the e300 and run a 12v feed to it ? Or do i also need a relay ?
Thanks
Chopper746
07-16-2016, 10:17 AM #1Hi guys,
I am going to be putting my om606 into a different car and wondering with regards tp the glow plugs can i use the controller from the e300 and run a 12v feed to it ? Or do i also need a relay ?
Thanks
should not be dificult , just wire 12V in it and the ignition will control the box, the ignition signal should be V, but can be gwnd , i´m not sure. the temp signal is used for cold start , in the absence of this signal it switches off the procedure.
u can search for a wiring diagram in autodata.
good luck
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
the box on the e 300 uses 12V feed, temp signal, ignition signal , and feedback of what is doing, to the dash trough can bus contrller if a post 95 and , wiring to warning light if pre 95.
should not be dificult , just wire 12V in it and the ignition will control the box, the ignition signal should be V, but can be gwnd , i´m not sure. the temp signal is used for cold start , in the absence of this signal it switches off the procedure.
u can search for a wiring diagram in autodata.
good luck
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Chopper746
07-16-2016, 12:18 PM #3thanks for the reply !!! i am a long way of this yet but just getting an idea of some bits and pieces.
(07-16-2016, 10:17 AM)Chopper746 Hi guys,
I am going to be putting my om606 into a different car and wondering with regards tp the glow plugs can i use the controller from the e300 and run a 12v feed to it ? Or do i also need a relay ?
Thanks
I hope you post the results. I am using the 606 in my F150 and have kept the glow plug module out of the w210 donor. I'm a little concerned about a temperature input though. It would probably be best to wire up the module for switched control on the dash and just let the module control glow time and just use a little common sense for glow need only below 40F.
50harleyrider
07-18-2016, 05:24 AM #4(07-16-2016, 10:17 AM)Chopper746 Hi guys,
I am going to be putting my om606 into a different car and wondering with regards tp the glow plugs can i use the controller from the e300 and run a 12v feed to it ? Or do i also need a relay ?
Thanks
I hope you post the results. I am using the 606 in my F150 and have kept the glow plug module out of the w210 donor. I'm a little concerned about a temperature input though. It would probably be best to wire up the module for switched control on the dash and just let the module control glow time and just use a little common sense for glow need only below 40F.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Glow time is also influenced by temperature.. So your best way would be to wire it like original. Find place to screw in temperature sensor and let module do its thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(07-18-2016, 05:40 AM)starynovy Glow time is also influenced by temperature.. So your best way would be to wire it like original. Find place to screw in temperature sensor and let module do its thing.
Wouldn't the temperature sensor already be in the engine or does glow plugs have separate one? We won't be using the donor ecu either
50harleyrider
07-18-2016, 06:01 AM #6(07-18-2016, 05:40 AM)starynovy Glow time is also influenced by temperature.. So your best way would be to wire it like original. Find place to screw in temperature sensor and let module do its thing.
Wouldn't the temperature sensor already be in the engine or does glow plugs have separate one? We won't be using the donor ecu either
(07-18-2016, 06:01 AM)50harleyrider(07-18-2016, 05:40 AM)starynovy Glow time is also influenced by temperature.. So your best way would be to wire it like original. Find place to screw in temperature sensor and let module do its thing.
Wouldn't the temperature sensor already be in the engine or does glow plugs have separate one? We won't be using the donor ecu either
Like barrote says, E300TD controller measures temp over CANBUS, you would want a early pre-95 (NA) glow relay which uses analogue temp input for your goal.
Or maybe just wire switched 12v direct to the relay contact in the glow controller and have a button on the dash..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(07-18-2016, 06:01 AM)50harleyrider(07-18-2016, 05:40 AM)starynovy Glow time is also influenced by temperature.. So your best way would be to wire it like original. Find place to screw in temperature sensor and let module do its thing.
Wouldn't the temperature sensor already be in the engine or does glow plugs have separate one? We won't be using the donor ecu either
Like barrote says, E300TD controller measures temp over CANBUS, you would want a early pre-95 (NA) glow relay which uses analogue temp input for your goal.
Or maybe just wire switched 12v direct to the relay contact in the glow controller and have a button on the dash..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
50harleyrider
07-19-2016, 08:42 AM #8Button on the dash sounds like my kind of simplicity and still use the '99 relay. Nothing beats your own feel. I know my 2003 tdi Golf sometimes requires 2 ignition switch cyclings to get enough glow on 0f or less days.
50harleyrider
07-19-2016, 08:44 AM #9Button on the dash sounds like my kind of simplicity and still use the '99 controller/relay. Nothing beats your own feel. I know my 2003 tdi Golf sometimes requires 2 ignition switch cyclings to get enough glow on 0f or colder days. Hope that helps the OP too.
(07-19-2016, 08:44 AM)50harleyrider Button on the dash sounds like my kind of simplicity and still use the '99 controller/relay. Nothing beats your own feel. I know my 2003 tdi Golf sometimes requires 2 ignition switch cyclings to get enough glow on 0f or colder days. Hope that helps the OP too.
99 relay is working with canbus and is not useable with button, just use early relay. It's very simple to connect, you'll find wire diagrams in internet.
(07-19-2016, 08:44 AM)50harleyrider Button on the dash sounds like my kind of simplicity and still use the '99 controller/relay. Nothing beats your own feel. I know my 2003 tdi Golf sometimes requires 2 ignition switch cyclings to get enough glow on 0f or colder days. Hope that helps the OP too.
99 relay is working with canbus and is not useable with button, just use early relay. It's very simple to connect, you'll find wire diagrams in internet.
50harleyrider
07-19-2016, 01:05 PM #11I think if going with a pushbutton, any glow plug relay off an '80s Ford powerstroke diesel should work. Just connect all 6 in parallel with a resistor if necessary. What's the resistance of the om606 glow plugs? Easy enough to check with my meter. Isn't this a simple thing like lighting 6 high wattage 12v lightbulbs for a few seconds? Six seconds is the longest my TDI ever is on. My Dads' 4000 Ford diesel tractor sure didn't have a timed relay with analog or digital temperature inputs.
Light on dashboard is just showing when you can start the engine not how long glow plugs are turned on. After dash light turnes off glow plugs are actually working about 3 more minutes on 606, old merc diesels have different relays with 1 min afterglow, 3 min afterglow and first om601-603 didn't have afterglow. Some other and newer cars have glow plugs near 10 minutes on because it's lowering emissions when engine is not on operating temperature. Om606 will work without afterglow but it makes heavy knocking and may smoke a little, especially with upgraded elements.
(07-19-2016, 10:36 AM)erx(07-19-2016, 08:44 AM)50harleyrider Button on the dash sounds like my kind of simplicity and still use the '99 controller/relay. Nothing beats your own feel. I know my 2003 tdi Golf sometimes requires 2 ignition switch cyclings to get enough glow on 0f or colder days. Hope that helps the OP too.
99 relay is working with canbus and is not useable with button, just use early relay. It's very simple to connect, you'll find wire diagrams in internet.
I just mean solder a wire onto the relay contact inside the controller, bypassing all the circuitry, so just using it as a 6-way relay.
Done it before, just open it up and the relay contact is obvious..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(07-19-2016, 10:36 AM)erx(07-19-2016, 08:44 AM)50harleyrider Button on the dash sounds like my kind of simplicity and still use the '99 controller/relay. Nothing beats your own feel. I know my 2003 tdi Golf sometimes requires 2 ignition switch cyclings to get enough glow on 0f or colder days. Hope that helps the OP too.
99 relay is working with canbus and is not useable with button, just use early relay. It's very simple to connect, you'll find wire diagrams in internet.
I just mean solder a wire onto the relay contact inside the controller, bypassing all the circuitry, so just using it as a 6-way relay.
Done it before, just open it up and the relay contact is obvious..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
50harleyrider
07-20-2016, 08:07 PM #15So Hario, you're saying I can do that to the om606 controller? So no afterglow is required? Just holding the relay closed manually with a button like I said until or a few seconds after starting (post 11) like 1960s' technology glow control which worked fine. The fun of these diesel swaps is the simplicity. Hope this helps you Chopper746 too. Winter's nigh.
50harleyrider
07-21-2016, 04:54 AM #16Thx Zeeman. Can you provide a simple wiring schematic of what you do with the 603 GP controller including buttons and lights? Your system has been tested up there in cold country?
(07-20-2016, 08:07 PM)50harleyrider So Hario, you're saying I can do that to the om606 controller? So no afterglow is required? Just holding the relay closed manually with a button like I said until or a few seconds after starting (post 11) like 1960s' technology glow control which worked fine. The fun of these diesel swaps is the simplicity. Hope this helps you Chopper746 too. Winter's nigh.
Yes but it would be just glow while you press like you say, old school. Didn't know about after glow so maybe lumpy for a few seconds afterwards? Plugs would last longer at least lol.
I think the 603 one has a built in timer, (temp referenced?), so better really, if cheap. IMHO
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(07-20-2016, 08:07 PM)50harleyrider So Hario, you're saying I can do that to the om606 controller? So no afterglow is required? Just holding the relay closed manually with a button like I said until or a few seconds after starting (post 11) like 1960s' technology glow control which worked fine. The fun of these diesel swaps is the simplicity. Hope this helps you Chopper746 too. Winter's nigh.
Yes but it would be just glow while you press like you say, old school. Didn't know about after glow so maybe lumpy for a few seconds afterwards? Plugs would last longer at least lol.
I think the 603 one has a built in timer, (temp referenced?), so better really, if cheap. IMHO
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(07-16-2016, 12:15 PM)barrote the box on the e 300 uses 12V feed, temp signal, ignition signal , and feedback of what is doing, to the dash trough can bus contrller if a post 95 and , wiring to warning light if pre 95.
should not be dificult , just wire 12V in it and the ignition will control the box, the ignition signal should be V, but can be gwnd , i´m not sure. the temp signal is used for cold start , in the absence of this signal it switches off the procedure.
u can search for a wiring diagram in autodata.
good luck
Forget to mention that , the pre 95 boxes have a 3min timer and switch of circuitry based on eng temp(coolant),
The box main relay contacts with the ignition key on, then based on engine temperature , it will stay on for 15 sec max (glow light on), (the 15sec is for the light cause glowing will stay till engine is started or 30sec) allowing 12v. after this period changes to 7v and light is out, it will stay at 7 volt during 3 min or till engine hits 24ºC wichever is the first to happen. (afterglow)
The 12v glow time is defined by feedback resistence from glowplug, if one plug is defective the glow light will not come on(but heat the others), and after the box is switched off , afterglow the light will come one , warning the driver that the system is defective.
Not so simple thing , is a remarkable electronics engineering simple device.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(07-16-2016, 12:15 PM)barrote the box on the e 300 uses 12V feed, temp signal, ignition signal , and feedback of what is doing, to the dash trough can bus contrller if a post 95 and , wiring to warning light if pre 95.
should not be dificult , just wire 12V in it and the ignition will control the box, the ignition signal should be V, but can be gwnd , i´m not sure. the temp signal is used for cold start , in the absence of this signal it switches off the procedure.
u can search for a wiring diagram in autodata.
good luck
Forget to mention that , the pre 95 boxes have a 3min timer and switch of circuitry based on eng temp(coolant),
The box main relay contacts with the ignition key on, then based on engine temperature , it will stay on for 15 sec max (glow light on), (the 15sec is for the light cause glowing will stay till engine is started or 30sec) allowing 12v. after this period changes to 7v and light is out, it will stay at 7 volt during 3 min or till engine hits 24ºC wichever is the first to happen. (afterglow)
The 12v glow time is defined by feedback resistence from glowplug, if one plug is defective the glow light will not come on(but heat the others), and after the box is switched off , afterglow the light will come one , warning the driver that the system is defective.
Not so simple thing , is a remarkable electronics engineering simple device.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
I see 11 round pins on this pre 95 OM60x onto controller. How do we physically make the connections onto an OM606 harness? Six are obvious to the glow plugs but the other 5? Are there round female connectors available in these sizes? I guess I need to find a wiring diagram on w124zone or similar sight.
50harleyrider
07-23-2016, 01:20 PM #19http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NfUAAOSwuh...-l1600.jpg
I see 11 round pins on this pre 95 OM60x onto controller. How do we physically make the connections onto an OM606 harness? Six are obvious to the glow plugs but the other 5? Are there round female connectors available in these sizes? I guess I need to find a wiring diagram on w124zone or similar sight.
You just connect those like
g1-g6 to plugs
30 from battery 12v
31 to ground
50 from start position
15 switched 12v
LA to glow lamp
T from temperature sensor in the engine.
I think the smaller round abico should fit to those if you don't have original connectors avaible.
You just connect those like
g1-g6 to plugs
30 from battery 12v
31 to ground
50 from start position
15 switched 12v
LA to glow lamp
T from temperature sensor in the engine.
From the picture it looks like mercedes uses the same connectors on many things in the car. Just go to a junkyard and cut off a connector that fits. You can open it and solder new wires into it. Or you could cut off a part of the 603 harness and splice the wires.
These are the 2 harness connectors and relay we need for this setup. Anybody?
50harleyrider
07-24-2016, 05:43 PM #22i'll hunt the 603 harness connector-want a clean install. Thx for all the help! What benz diesels available in the states had the 603? I'm thinking only the 350 turbodiesel had 6 cylinders pre 95. I'll probably have to hunt in Europe.
These are the 2 harness connectors and relay we need for this setup. Anybody?
https://mercedessource.com/store/diesel-...erride-kit
Keeps you in control with manual afterglow also (without decreasing voltage though).
50harleyrider
07-25-2016, 07:57 AM #23For those of you that want to have simple glow plug control that I mentioned in my post 11 reference to an early 80s Ford Power Stroke GP relay look here-very similar
https://mercedessource.com/store/diesel-...erride-kit
Keeps you in control with manual afterglow also (without decreasing voltage though).
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
07-25-2016, 02:10 PM #24Those connectors are quite common readily available at the dealer for a few bucks. You can also get the pins to solder new wires onto as well. In the pic it looks like the part number is molded into the connector (often times is the case).
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
50harleyrider
07-26-2016, 08:37 PM #25This photo I googled. Shows the connector from the relay to the GPs and the connector to the temp sensor but I still don't know the part number of the small square connector and its' pins. Anyone got one of these early 87-94 603 cars that can help out with part numbers?
(07-26-2016, 08:37 PM)50harleyrider This photo I googled. Shows the connector from the relay to the GPs and the connector to the temp sensor but I still don't know the part number of the small square connector and its' pins. Anyone got one of these early 87-94 603 cars that can help out with part numbers?
Part # for small 4 pin plug 0115455128
Tan wire - Ground
Purple - Safety switch ( not used)
Black - Indicator lite on dash
White or pink with a black tracer - Ign. energizer on position
Large lug - batt. Pos. hot all the time
6- pin plug, glow plugs
Any controller after 85 will be for the 6cyl. diesel 6 pin glow plug plug. Also 617 4 pin plugs are the same just heavier wires and different color code. Have that if you need it. I prefer these.
(07-26-2016, 08:37 PM)50harleyrider This photo I googled. Shows the connector from the relay to the GPs and the connector to the temp sensor but I still don't know the part number of the small square connector and its' pins. Anyone got one of these early 87-94 603 cars that can help out with part numbers?
Part # for small 4 pin plug 0115455128
Tan wire - Ground
Purple - Safety switch ( not used)
Black - Indicator lite on dash
White or pink with a black tracer - Ign. energizer on position
Large lug - batt. Pos. hot all the time
6- pin plug, glow plugs
Any controller after 85 will be for the 6cyl. diesel 6 pin glow plug plug. Also 617 4 pin plugs are the same just heavier wires and different color code. Have that if you need it. I prefer these.
50harleyrider
11-01-2016, 05:12 AM #28Baldur told me the 606 coolant temperature sensor must be dedicated to his ecu and cannot be shared with the 603 glow relay I plan to use. The 606 does have two bosses in the head so should I add a 603 sensor to the second plugged boss and dedicate it to the 603 GP harness green wire? If so, I have to verify the threads of the 603 sensor will match the 606 boss and whether to use a 1 prong or 3 prong 603 sensor. Maybe a threaded bushing is required?
Correct me if thats wrong though.
Did anyone figure out the resistance from one 606 glow plug?
Mat
Baldur's controller as far as I know will control all aspects of glow plug operation, pre glow and after glow, and the variables are editable in his software. I plan on using two 70amp relays (peak 150amp), three glow plugs to each relay, and triggered through Baldur's Controller, meaning all that is required is battery positive; to both Pin 30 & 86, then 85 goes to Baldur's controller and 87 goes to the Glow Plugs.
Correct me if thats wrong though.
Did anyone figure out the resistance from one 606 glow plug?
Mat
50harleyrider
11-01-2016, 07:20 PM #31According to my PM's with Baldur, his DSL1 ecu can control preglow and afterglow through the om606 relay so it looks like there is no need to use the early 603 glow plug relay or mess with coolant temperature sensors from a 603 if you roll with Baldurs' ecu. He even gives instructions on the mod to do to the 606 relay to integrate it. It's looking more and more like I've made a good decision to go that route and the electronic IP. The OP,Chopper 746 should benefit from all this good info too. It looks like we're just scratching the surface of all the benefits of the DSL1 ecu.
Just start, if its nailing and shaking for a half of minute, you know it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
What is detection of burned glow plug good for? Just start, if its nailing and shaking for a half of minute, you know it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(11-03-2016, 04:44 AM)starynovy What is detection of burned glow plug good for?
True, if an IDI engine starts okay then the glow plugs are working.
Funny though, when Land Rover came out with the td5 engine, it had only 4 glow plugs. Cylinder #1 had no glow plug. That works fine until you get to sub zero temperatures, then those engines suffer.
Baldur Gislason
(11-03-2016, 04:44 AM)starynovy What is detection of burned glow plug good for?
True, if an IDI engine starts okay then the glow plugs are working.
Funny though, when Land Rover came out with the td5 engine, it had only 4 glow plugs. Cylinder #1 had no glow plug. That works fine until you get to sub zero temperatures, then those engines suffer.
Baldur Gislason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
That would be, when fully warmed up around 60A. Cold maybe 120-150A.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
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