Timing OM606
Timing OM606
I have an OM603 pump with the following:
- 150psi popping pressure injectors
- 220cc tuned pump
- 8mm elements
-HX40W if that has an importance
All to be fitted to an OM606.
What should my timing be? What is stock degree? Should it be 12 degree now or 8-10tdc?
How could I time it?
Thanks guys!
hummermaniac88
02-14-2017, 12:56 PM #1Hi there,
I have an OM603 pump with the following:
- 150psi popping pressure injectors
- 220cc tuned pump
- 8mm elements
-HX40W if that has an importance
All to be fitted to an OM606.
What should my timing be? What is stock degree? Should it be 12 degree now or 8-10tdc?
How could I time it?
Thanks guys!
sometimes there are misreadings, and pump end up with retarded or advanced, but that is fine tunning, and fine tunning the injection can only be acomplished in two ways:
1-use the stoboscopic light device recomended by MB, or similar device.
2-by listening and watch engine behaviour.
Anything else is pure loss of time and brain ability.
But as someone said , all is about where the shop left the lock.
regards.
FD,
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usually , unless the person in the shop does not know what is doing , will leave the lock mechanism set so that the pump can be assembled with the engine at 14.5ºATDC and after the engine turns 700ºC to the left the element #1 will start injection some 24 btdc.
sometimes there are misreadings, and pump end up with retarded or advanced, but that is fine tunning, and fine tunning the injection can only be acomplished in two ways:
1-use the stoboscopic light device recomended by MB, or similar device.
2-by listening and watch engine behaviour.
Anything else is pure loss of time and brain ability.
But as someone said , all is about where the shop left the lock.
regards.
FD,
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I am sorry to hijack the thread,but I belive its the same question that the author has
I have a OM606 with Dieselmeken elements 7,5mm ver 2. Recommended by himself to be set in the pump at 16deg, and the engine to be set at 8-10 deg.when putting it in.
Now.
My pump shop installed the elements and have set it to 10cm fuel at 1,95V rack sensor and 160cm at full rack.(no problems with idle hunting, very nice idle)
They have set it at 15 degrees (not 16 as dieselmeken sais)
My mechanics that installed the pump , have said that my chain has 2,5 deg strech, and as the pump is half way, they say we need 1,25deg to compensate this.
They decided to set engine at 12 degrees when installing the pump (despite the fact I told them Dieslmeken said 8-10 degrees)
(The 15 not 16 on pump set by pump shop, and the 2,5 degrees chain play, made them do this.)
My question is.
Should I advance timing by 2 degrees?
Engine runs ok, 2.1 bar boost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0V29VJ2Jg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9HttUp2ghQ
1999 S210 Edc pump. 7.5mm dieselmeken element.
HX35W turbo, custom map.
Brakes 330mm 4 piston brembo CL500, bolt on fit. Longer brake lines. 3mm spacers.
260km/h
2.1 boost for now.
16 inch steel wheels with 20mm spacers.
Dear Barrote,
I am sorry to hijack the thread,but I belive its the same question that the author has
I have a OM606 with Dieselmeken elements 7,5mm ver 2. Recommended by himself to be set in the pump at 16deg, and the engine to be set at 8-10 deg.when putting it in.
Now.
My pump shop installed the elements and have set it to 10cm fuel at 1,95V rack sensor and 160cm at full rack.(no problems with idle hunting, very nice idle)
They have set it at 15 degrees (not 16 as dieselmeken sais)
My mechanics that installed the pump , have said that my chain has 2,5 deg strech, and as the pump is half way, they say we need 1,25deg to compensate this.
They decided to set engine at 12 degrees when installing the pump (despite the fact I told them Dieslmeken said 8-10 degrees)
(The 15 not 16 on pump set by pump shop, and the 2,5 degrees chain play, made them do this.)
My question is.
Should I advance timing by 2 degrees?
Engine runs ok, 2.1 bar boost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0V29VJ2Jg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9HttUp2ghQ
1999 S210 Edc pump. 7.5mm dieselmeken element.
HX35W turbo, custom map.
Brakes 330mm 4 piston brembo CL500, bolt on fit. Longer brake lines. 3mm spacers.
260km/h
2.1 boost for now.
16 inch steel wheels with 20mm spacers.
Your doubts are trully genuine cause they are from a newcomer in diesels expecially the MB IDI diesels. (sorry about being obtuse)
Mr dieselmeken sets the lock mechanism at 15º not the 19,5 as i do, which is recommended by the Bosch nanufacturer.
That is why he said to install pump with 8/10ATDC.
There 2 diff things most fórum members did not understood yet,
1-Installation of the pump as per MB repair manual, using the Locking tool and then confirm with the timing with the AB light is only to be sure the engine will start and run , without damaging, so that the stoboscopic tool can be used to fine tune the timing, this is true to a stock engine.
2- When we mod a pump it is for sure diff, but in this case one must search which is the best timing for what is our desire, cause my timing in my engine is a lot diff from your timing in your engine. Basically what u must do with a modded pump is to install it as the builder told , then start the engine, watch noise and smoke, then u must retard or advance the pump , or if u´re really a lucky fella u hit the point.
A modded pump with modded injectors and modded pre cups sure will not pull right at 24º start of injection. in my engine i have start of injection at some 15º so that it pulls like crazy. (measured with the light device) and i had it before at 12, and it puls anyway but loose low idle properties. my sugestion is if u dont have the light device, install the pump as the builder recommended, 1/3rd the way to the advance position, then u start the engine , and with the engine running and bolts slightly loose , advance as much as u can untill u hear the engine hammering, when that happens retard a bit , tight everithing and road test it. u´ll see some diff´s.
once u intall the pump in that 1/3rd and u have whyte smoke , timing is too retarded.
or u search a better mechanic to help u with it....
regards
FD,
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MR Erio,
Your doubts are trully genuine cause they are from a newcomer in diesels expecially the MB IDI diesels. (sorry about being obtuse)
Mr dieselmeken sets the lock mechanism at 15º not the 19,5 as i do, which is recommended by the Bosch nanufacturer.
That is why he said to install pump with 8/10ATDC.
There 2 diff things most fórum members did not understood yet,
1-Installation of the pump as per MB repair manual, using the Locking tool and then confirm with the timing with the AB light is only to be sure the engine will start and run , without damaging, so that the stoboscopic tool can be used to fine tune the timing, this is true to a stock engine.
2- When we mod a pump it is for sure diff, but in this case one must search which is the best timing for what is our desire, cause my timing in my engine is a lot diff from your timing in your engine. Basically what u must do with a modded pump is to install it as the builder told , then start the engine, watch noise and smoke, then u must retard or advance the pump , or if u´re really a lucky fella u hit the point.
A modded pump with modded injectors and modded pre cups sure will not pull right at 24º start of injection. in my engine i have start of injection at some 15º so that it pulls like crazy. (measured with the light device) and i had it before at 12, and it puls anyway but loose low idle properties. my sugestion is if u dont have the light device, install the pump as the builder recommended, 1/3rd the way to the advance position, then u start the engine , and with the engine running and bolts slightly loose , advance as much as u can untill u hear the engine hammering, when that happens retard a bit , tight everithing and road test it. u´ll see some diff´s.
once u intall the pump in that 1/3rd and u have whyte smoke , timing is too retarded.
or u search a better mechanic to help u with it....
regards
FD,
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Thank you for your time.
I'm in no way trying to pose as an expert. Im just the owner and a driver. I know a little about mechanics, but with my budget and access to mechanics in small city, i have to know and understand what needs to be done.
Now I understand much more.
I will drive next to a old time experianced diesel pumpmaster that did w124(that does not do EDC pumps but will tune it forward and backward). This is no expert like you, dieselmeken or anyone else on this forum,but we are all learning.
Thank you once again.
1999 S210 Edc pump. 7.5mm dieselmeken element.
HX35W turbo, custom map.
Brakes 330mm 4 piston brembo CL500, bolt on fit. Longer brake lines. 3mm spacers.
260km/h
2.1 boost for now.
16 inch steel wheels with 20mm spacers.
Dear Mr Barotte
Thank you for your time.
I'm in no way trying to pose as an expert. Im just the owner and a driver. I know a little about mechanics, but with my budget and access to mechanics in small city, i have to know and understand what needs to be done.
Now I understand much more.
I will drive next to a old time experianced diesel pumpmaster that did w124(that does not do EDC pumps but will tune it forward and backward). This is no expert like you, dieselmeken or anyone else on this forum,but we are all learning.
Thank you once again.
1999 S210 Edc pump. 7.5mm dieselmeken element.
HX35W turbo, custom map.
Brakes 330mm 4 piston brembo CL500, bolt on fit. Longer brake lines. 3mm spacers.
260km/h
2.1 boost for now.
16 inch steel wheels with 20mm spacers.
Many problems with pump setting, even mechanic shops have trouble setting the pumps they send for overhaul, and btw dieselmekens is a way more experienced than me... a lot more. I just do my things with some friends, help others and u know how it is.
About the stretch, stretch play no role in the injection pump, cause its relative to cam train and TDC. The pump or start of injection is relative to TDC, but oposite to the cam train the pump can be set where u want just by turning the pump body , and even further by changing groves in the sprocket.
usually a +3º strech is nothing, despite i found that this engines run a lot better with -3/0, i mean the cam train at TDC 3 degrees before the engine TDC. This can also be modded, and is not that dificult , but requires a skilfull handicraft man.
If u want to do that is just another fine tune that may give na extra 1or 2 HP and some TQ climb ability.
This procedure start by checking the TDC, with a micrometer and a special tool to drop it vertically in the top of cylinder #1. usually the puley is at OT, if not need to be corrected. After that check valve lift, a 5º stretch will show u valve lift some degrees off place, the idea is having the valve beeing lifted 2 or 3 degrees before what the repair manual states, which usually means advance the cam gear to that -3º
regards.
FD,
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No problema , as off me thats for what is this fórum for...
Many problems with pump setting, even mechanic shops have trouble setting the pumps they send for overhaul, and btw dieselmekens is a way more experienced than me... a lot more. I just do my things with some friends, help others and u know how it is.
About the stretch, stretch play no role in the injection pump, cause its relative to cam train and TDC. The pump or start of injection is relative to TDC, but oposite to the cam train the pump can be set where u want just by turning the pump body , and even further by changing groves in the sprocket.
usually a +3º strech is nothing, despite i found that this engines run a lot better with -3/0, i mean the cam train at TDC 3 degrees before the engine TDC. This can also be modded, and is not that dificult , but requires a skilfull handicraft man.
If u want to do that is just another fine tune that may give na extra 1or 2 HP and some TQ climb ability.
This procedure start by checking the TDC, with a micrometer and a special tool to drop it vertically in the top of cylinder #1. usually the puley is at OT, if not need to be corrected. After that check valve lift, a 5º stretch will show u valve lift some degrees off place, the idea is having the valve beeing lifted 2 or 3 degrees before what the repair manual states, which usually means advance the cam gear to that -3º
regards.
FD,
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