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+--- Thread: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo (/showthread.php?tid=12)
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Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 12-02-2008
You fellas have a quite a collection of serious mods here. I can't say that I will be able to contribute in the same ways, but I'll start with this simple but overlooked item.
I have been told to vent my crankcase to the atmosphere, get the 240d stock seperator, get on from an old V-dub.. It needs to be done right. I am too picky.
Venting to atm gave me unwanted oil leaks and I am concerned about cleanliness inside the crankcase. And more oil than expected was being lost.
I plan on making a simple breather with some form of shredded or woven stainless steel inside. Mcmaster-carr has a great selection of items, but I hate internet sales.
So, anyones thoughts on whether the medium should be thick strands / shavings of stainless, or a woven matrix of sorts would be appreciated. Captured oil will remain in a catch can until emptied. The cali engines do not have a return drain in the upper pan.
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 12-02-2008
There are many decent quality catch cans on eBay for under $30.
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 12-02-2008
that is the other issue.
Is the oil vaporized? Or just a mist in collusion with air? Why would I want this oil sent back to the crankcase if it has been broken down by heat?
Is the process to extract it from air condensation? or coalescence?
This would have great bearing on my chosen media.
FI - I have not found a suitable can, they would still need modifications, they are empty. The oil needs to come into contact with something.
What do you guys think of this? [attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->w208 separator.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment]
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 12-02-2008
totaldisaster What do you guys think of this?
Looks decent but it does the same as what all those ebay and the stock system do, centrifugal force slings the air/oil to the walls and the oil condenses onto it. Most of the oil is mist from it being sprayed out of tight clearances (like the rod and crank bearings and oil jets) and being whipped up by the rods speeding through the crankcase air.
That is a interesting device, what is it used on? (You're jt20 on MShop, right?)
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 12-02-2008
it is from the M111 engine, it goes under the valve cover. I thought the design was the most simple i could find.
So this is the same general design as the 240d separator? The other seperators on ebay are mods from compressed air systems - lame, I refuse to believe that i will get the flow I am looking for from 1/4 90* elbows. (don't make me do the math)
The Mann-Hummel unit is pefect, I bet that filter element is pretty close to Tyvek. I will follow up on that.
On the cummins forums, they tout the Racor CCV 4500. both nice, but too pricey.
Bgkast's airplane separator i would do if I could find it.
Any suggestions on units are greatly appreciated. The only reason I am making this instead of buying is $$ and the fact that cheap ones aren't cutting it for me..
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 12-02-2008
some links.
ITs sounding more and more like Tyvek in the Mann separator
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=3402">http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/produ ... sp?mi=3402</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.relind.com/catalog/MNH/ProVent1.pdf">http://www.relind.com/catalog/MNH/ProVent1.pdf</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=90485">http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=90485</a><!-- m -->
Best photos here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.emotors.ca/articles/128.aspx">http://www.emotors.ca/articles/128.aspx</a><!-- m -->
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - kamel - 12-03-2008
Its interesting that someone posted a thread on this. I just completed my seperator made all from steel, tig welded together. Cost me less than $10 as well. I'll post pics after its installed.
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - winmutt - 12-03-2008
I cut mine out of the air filter housing. Its ugly but works.
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 12-03-2008
Thats the thing w/ the cali engine. There is no separator in the airbox. It just gets dumped into the cavity behind the filter and pools up in the base. The rest of the oil / blowby goes straight into the turbo! - a direct feed. Its a total mess of oily, degrading rubber and sacrificed airflow in the Intake mani.
something must be done.
What is the separator on Mtu's wagon from? I could live with that.
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - bgkast - 12-03-2008
totaldisaster Bgkast's airplane separator i would do if I could find it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160302587528
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 12-03-2008
Well now I feel really stupid. B*&^ing about my oily intake for an entire thread, and there it is. I swear I checked ebay every day.
BG are you satisified with its performance to this day?
Re: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - bgkast - 12-05-2008
Yep, it's still working great.
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - kamel - 01-09-2009
Here's mine:
![[Image: IMG_4011.jpg]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b59/triple-d-racing/79%20Diesel/IMG_4011.jpg)
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 01-09-2009
Where does it drain and what is that turbo from?
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - Gross Polluter - 01-09-2009
A buddy of mine cut an aluminum beverage bottle in half, installed baffling, welded it back together, welded an AN fitting to it, and clamped a breather filter to the the top. Made from stuff that was going in the garbage, turned into something useful
![[Image: catchcan.jpg]](http://yoshifab.com/images/242/catchcan.jpg)
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - winmutt - 01-09-2009
I hacked the stock one out of the air filter
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - lowriderdog37 - 01-10-2009
(01-09-2009, 02:56 PM)winmutt I hacked the stock one out of the air filter
Me too, then I stuffed it with steel wool for the oil to collect on as the vapor was passing through.
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - kamel - 01-12-2009
(01-09-2009, 04:12 AM)ForcedInduction Where does it drain and what is that turbo from?
Oil pan, it's from a volvo 740i.
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 01-17-2009
I wussed out, as usual. Got an nice vintage airplane separator under $20 shipped. Centripetal force design ?.. perhaps y'all can tell me once I post pics.
I am still researching the Mann-hummell, but construction is down for obvious reasons and I can't find any samples of Tyvek to mess around with.
pics soon.
p.s. - what have you guys done to the sight.. None of the links are supported?
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - totaldisaster - 01-17-2009
(01-09-2009, 12:52 AM)kamel Here's mine:
whats inside your unit?
(01-10-2009, 07:58 PM)lowriderdog37(01-09-2009, 02:56 PM)winmutt I hacked the stock one out of the air filter
Me too, then I stuffed it with steel wool for the oil to collect on as the vapor was passing through.
steel wool is a bad idea if you are draining back to the oil supply - moisture is inevitable.
if it was stainless, you would be ok.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Telecommbrkr - 04-23-2009
If you want great stainless 'steel wool' find an 'Amway/Quixtar' distibutor and ask for a box of 'Scrub Buds' These things are great. One continuous strand of stainless per 'bud', and four in a box. One box would be a perfect fit for the right sized can for this purpose. Make the can openable and wash the stainless once a year or whatever. I used to service heavy equipment and their crank-case vents were all set up like this with stainless wool, and it was a regular service item during oil-changes.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - holmz88 - 07-31-2009
I don't know if anyone is still paying any attention to this thread, but I was curious if you need an oil separator?? I just recently put a valve cover filter on the end of a hose to allow the engine to breath, but have yet to drive it. My thought is that a catch can may not be needed if its not routed to the intake, since the engine won't be putting the additional vacuum to it. I was also hoping to eliminate some of the oil running through the turbo by not connecting the breather hose to the intake. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Syncro_G - 07-31-2009
A G-wagen acquaintance just replaced his air filter with a Holland tractor air cleaner
and a Mann-Hummel Provent 200 PVC oil separator - both used on eBay.
the air filter has 4" in/outputs and I think the provent drains into a new hose barb tapped in next to the aluminum upper oil pan next to the dipstick tube.
I might do something similar - I'm going to rough in the hose barb in the oil pan just in case.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 07-31-2009
(07-31-2009, 01:01 AM)holmz88 Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Eventually it will get oily and drip/seep oil.
I use a modified 1/2" air/water separator from harbor freight. Its got a pair of SS scour pads inside and drains into a soda bottle by the radiator. After 4 months its collected 1/4 of a 20oz bottle of oil.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - holmz88 - 07-31-2009
I see everyone still routes the tubing back into the intake, even after doing extensive intake work, but I would think this would just be an unnecessary input of dirty/oily air into the turbo and intake, or does the separator filter it out well enough to not really matter. Is there a benefit to doing this, or is this just how everyone does it? I guess my car may just have excessive blow-by as well which makes mine worse. I can't tell that my car ever had an oil separator so that's how I have been running it for several years now, but I've become tired of removing the air filter and seeing oil pooled right in front of the turbo.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - GREASY_BEAST - 07-31-2009
(07-31-2009, 01:39 AM)holmz88 Is there a benefit to doing this
The benefit is to put the crankcase under a slight vacuum to aid in the expulsion of blowby gasses and oil vapor. As GileadGarage found out here, venting the crankcase adequately is essential.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - holmz88 - 07-31-2009
Thank you very much for that link, I must have over looked that thread previously.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - cannonballSDL - 08-05-2009
a old road racing trick is instead of using a catch can, plum the hose that would be going into the catch can to the exhaust. theres such a high vacuum that the oil vapor is pulled and burnt... but you have to have a free flowing exhaust to make this work.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-06-2009
I have tried 3 different catch cans since my turbo upgrade. The first I made from billet aluminum and had SS wool inside. I bought a "better" model, but it didn't do any better than the one I made. I found a 240D model and removed the foam on the outside to see what made it tick. There is a diaphragm inside that some how closes if the vacuum from the intake side gets too high I am guessing. The hoses have been upgraded in size to 5/8" also, the old hoses were 3/8"...The result, it is night and day in performance. I couldn't belive the power I gained by doing this, I can cruise down the freeway part throttle at seventy and have plenty more where that came from. The leaks are down to a minimum as well.
RE: Home-made Oil Seperator For the California 617 turbo - Bogo - 09-02-2009
(01-17-2009, 05:22 AM)totaldisaster(01-09-2009, 12:52 AM)kamel Here's mine:
whats inside your unit?
(01-10-2009, 07:58 PM)lowriderdog37(01-09-2009, 02:56 PM)winmutt I hacked the stock one out of the air filter
Me too, then I stuffed it with steel wool for the oil to collect on as the vapor was passing through.
steel wool is a bad idea if you are draining back to the oil supply - moisture is inevitable.
if it was stainless, you would be ok.
The oil should quickly coat the steel wool and protect it from rust, but stainless steel would be better in the long run.
Bronze wool should also work. I bet there are now some synthetics that would also do, but have no clue what they would be. Bronze wool was often in the packings for oil separators for diesel engines on boats years ago, that is if they had a separator.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - kamel - 09-04-2009
Need to post up picks of my puke tank version 2. It's much larger and has baffles in addition to stainless steel wool.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - rdirtycar - 07-13-2010
here's another:
http://store.42draftdesigns.com/Stealth-Oil-Catch-Can_p_289.html
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-13-2010
And another that took me a loooong time to find:
http://monstercraftsman.net/?l1=products
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Syncro_G - 07-14-2010
(07-13-2010, 06:53 PM)rdirtycar here's another:
http://store.42draftdesigns.com/Stealth-Oil-Catch-Can_p_289.html
this is ultimately what I installed. it's clean and fairly compact.
I currently have it draining below the engine but am planning to tap into the oil pan.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-14-2010
http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/catchcans.html Those are the nicest oil catches I have ever seen... Wish I could afford one...
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 07-14-2010
All those are extremely expensive, especially the "monstercraftsman", and none work any better than the separator that cost me $15 to build.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-14-2010
Even the 42 Draft Designs piece? If that thing didn't work better than what you've got I'd be very surprised, They definitely spent a lot time designing it and it looks legit. Not one of those crap Ebay pieces... I'm not bashing your oil separator Forced...
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 07-14-2010
it looks to function the same. Lots of small holes and turbulence to condense and contact the oil out of the air, except theirs just has two small flat plates unless something substantial is hidden in the cap.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-14-2010
Yeah, guess I like it so much because its like a piece of art.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - rdirtycar - 07-14-2010
[attachment=3117]
42draftdesigns' separator is a really beautiful design. Think it works as well as the Mann-Hummel? Probably not. Mann Hummel has an air-filter. I bet you can blow warm breath through that thing and it comes out cool and dry, like a 120psi compressed air filter. We use them on our HVLP paint guns. A paperlike water/oil air filter is amazing at removing vapor. As far as building a show car I would have to install the stealth canister by 42draftdesigns.
And I think the Monstercraftsmen design should probably vent to the intake but might not have the filtering effectiveness. I think a little vacuum at the outlet of the PCV system keeps the vacuum pump and the turbo oil return from getting backed up. Cause believe me I'd probably just run a hose to the ground like a box truck.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - rdirtycar - 07-14-2010
I imagine separators like Forced Inductions and 42's use a similar principal to a fractionating column in the production of ethanol. The hot water/ethanol vapor rises through a tube containing media with as much surface area as possible. The bottom of the tube is slightly hotter than the top. As the water vapor condenses on the media in the column and is pulled down by gravity, the rising water vapor sticks to the water droplets and allows the ethanol vapor to pass to the top. In the case of ethanol, at the top, it condenses on a cold coil and they drink it or burn it.
I'm imagining the principle behind a baffle oil separator is similar. As the oil vapor rises to the top of one of these tubes, some of it condenses on the baffles and drips back down. The oil vapor rising through the dripping oil sticks to it. At the top, mostly clean air exits to the intake of the engine. In ethanol production this can only yield a maximum of +-95% pure alcohol the rest will always be water. It is impossible to get any more water out of the alcohol without a filter. Such would be a separator like MANN's Provent.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 07-14-2010
Thats pretty much the idea. My pipe still smokes but nowhere near as much as without the separator and I drain about 1qt a year out of the bottle.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - rdirtycar - 07-15-2010
(07-14-2010, 07:36 PM)ForcedInduction Thats pretty much the idea. My pipe still smokes but nowhere near as much as without the separator and I drain about 1qt a year out of the bottle.
The separator is high up on your setup. Do you not drain it to the crankcase because it would need some sort of check valve at the bottom?
... the engine vacuum might draw through the drain in the bottom ...
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 07-15-2010
The CCV vented to the road to prevent intercooler fouling and the oil drains to a catch bottle to measure how much oil is removed. I wanted the separator and vent to be on the drivers side but I couldn't find any place to run the tube that wouldn't interfere with steering components or look funky. I have gotten several "Hey, you've got a hose hanging loose!" comments though.
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-15-2010
Oh man you got a hose falling off! haha that thing hangs looooooooooooow. I put mine down the drivers side but it is only a hose and no separator... yet
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - rdirtycar - 07-15-2010
zip tie a glove full of pebbles over the tube and people will say, "oh man you've got an arm hanging down!!" and you can say, "I know."
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-15-2010
I'd say ....I ran that F*&ker over last night....
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - rdirtycar - 07-15-2010
my friend got sucked into the intake
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - Captain America - 07-15-2010
Made me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXX-9eB7PI
haha
RE: Home-made Oil Separator For the California 617 turbo - ForcedInduction - 07-16-2010
(07-15-2010, 11:04 AM)Captain America haha that thing hangs looooooooooooow.
The closer to the ground the more oil vapor sticks to the ground instead of my chassis. Its not as close as the picture makes it out to be, more like 6". Better to leave it long and cut it short later than make a whole new hose if its too short. Most buses and trucks have theirs around 8-12" and this car won't see snow so it won't be dragging.
Quote:zip tie a glove full of pebbles over the tube and people will say, "oh man you've got an arm hanging down!!" and you can say, "I know."Hey, not a bad idea! I think I can find a rubber arm somewhere. Maybe even do a dragon head/neck.