(04-20-2011, 03:54 PM)aaa Why is the element so big to begin with?

(04-20-2011, 05:12 PM)300D50 Less stroke is my guess, the cam plate looks to only move ~ 5 to 6mm.

(04-21-2011, 11:57 AM)winmutt Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).

(04-22-2011, 12:37 AM)tomnik I believe that the original Sprinter "timing device" (which is just a sprocket) can be used or at least parts of it.
But take care, the torque is quite heavy.

Tom

(04-21-2011, 12:36 PM)devton

(04-21-2011, 11:57 AM)winmutt Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).

My pump is same like on the pictures. You can use this adapter , but you need the sprocket too, because the VE pump using a gear other than the inline pumps. The injection timing is adjusted by ip pump itself.

(04-22-2011, 08:59 AM)winmutt Tomnik : 0460 426 205 VE6/12F1250R419-4 I believe.


Some Bosch literature on VE pump.
http://www.bosch-automotive.com/en/fachliteratur/pdf/u222e.pdf
Diesel engine management series on VE pump
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pump/Bosch_VE_Pumps.pdf

(04-22-2011, 09:13 AM)tomnik 85-86 ccm/1000 max. with boost.

(04-22-2011, 10:34 AM)tomnik Go for a Cummins pump, install it and report back.
It is the same thing: larger plunger=better.

Tom

(04-22-2011, 01:41 PM)winmutt I am willing to bet the input on the sprinter VE pump is just a bolt on type thing. Do you have access to a Bosch parts catalog?

(04-22-2011, 11:15 PM)tomnik [quote='winmutt' pid='28666' dateline='1303497681']

(did you see the cables on the Sprinter pump?)

Tom

(04-23-2011, 10:39 AM)Einar What would the benefit for using a VE instead of a M?

(04-24-2011, 06:06 PM)Alastair E Hmm....

That Sprinter pump above is not a 'VE' type, and its not mechanical control....

Its a 'VP' type--A 'Electronic fly-by-wire' pump. a VP37 to be exact....

To fit a Cummins or any other Mechanical EP-VE axial-plunger pump in place of a PES Inline, you have a couple of major issues.

Do you stick with the M.B. Timing-Device or go with the replacement pump's internal timing-device
--Replacement pump's timing will be set for donor engine and would not directly suit the MB engine, without altering the curve...
--So, you go for MB timing device...

That means you must dis-able the new pump's internal timing device, and account for this in the initial timing/pump postion setting--How do you determine this?....

Will the front casting of the VP Sprinter pump and the shaft/spline part remove from the Sprinter VP and fit a Cummins VE--I dont think so....
--Looks to be part of the pump casting to me...

--If this was an easy alteration I'm sure Myna would have made available an EP-VE to fit the O.M. series and not messed with the PES at all, as there are so many different hydraulic-heads and plunger sizes available and the EP-VE is much more adaptable to different engine demands because of this, and those VP37 on Sprinters have been around in Europe for donkey's years!....

(04-25-2011, 03:47 AM)tomnik Getting a Cummins pump for cheap and installing it on a 603/606 engine could be the easiest way.

(04-25-2011, 08:58 AM)winmutt Yes. For the Cummins guys there is a 14mm pump upgrade. Not sure what the output volumes are on that.

(04-25-2011, 10:25 AM)300D50 Stupid question, but what about setting the pop pressure higher and running 2-stage injectors?
I know the MW pump is designed for a higher injection pressure than the M was, so why not use it to get better atomization and an even shorter injection duration? At least till we blow out the flame or slice the prechamber ball in half...

(04-25-2011, 10:45 AM)winmutt Can anyone help me source the timing parts from #5 to the left in the diagram above? I've asked all the pump sellers on ebay.de and co.uk.

(04-25-2011, 11:08 AM)tomnik There is no timing device visible. This is IN the pump!.
The connection shaft-sprocket is fix connection.

Tom

(04-25-2011, 11:26 AM)winmutt I see. There has to be some kind of advancing mechanism on the cummins pump.

Quote:Vane pump fuel pressure lubricates moving parts in the rest of the pump, supplies fuel to the distributor plunger for the injectors, and controls injection timing advance mechanism.

Quote:Injection Timing Advance

Near the end of each compression stroke, diesel fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber. Injection must continue well past piston TDC in order to burn the necessary amount of fuel to provide engine power.

As engine speed increases, stroke timing becomes shorter and injection timing becomes longer. Burning must begin sooner to ensure that peak combustion pressures still occur at the most efficient point after TDC.

Diesel injection timing is advanced by a hydraulic piston in the injection pump:

As engine speed increases, fuel pressure from the vane pump also increases. Vane pump pressure pushes the injection advance piston to the left against the spring so that the roller housing turns slightly.

Since the cam plate is turning in the opposite direction, the "ramps" on the cam plate engage the roller sooner whenever the injection advance piston moves to the left. This means that the distributor plunger beings injection sooner.

The injection timing advance piston is located in the bottom of the injection pump body:

The only cold start and warm-up device necessary for the diesel fuel system is a control which advances injection timing at idle and during low speed running.

A lever turns a cam which pushes the hydraulic piston to the left. This advances injection time about 5 degrees.

This injection advance provides more time for the fuel to burn, which improves performance and prevents smoking during cold starts and warm-up.

The cold start cam does not advance the complete range of injection timing. Above 2200 rpm, the piston operates normally and does not contact the cam:

(04-22-2011, 10:14 AM)tomnik 0 460 415 992
max. 73 ccm
5 cyl. electronic

0 460 406 018 volvo: at 0.75 bar boost: max. 45 ccm
6 cyl.

Tom

(04-26-2011, 09:59 AM)dieselmeken Here is some "knowhow" from the dieseltech!

This is NOT comparable figures, the amount of fuel that is in the testsheet is depending of the testinjectors & pipes in the bench. For example the 992 pump is to be run against 116 injectors and 1,8 x350 pipes, 018 pump is to be run against 000 injector and 2x840 pipes.

Difference in amount of fuel is so high and not comparable.
For example, the 116 testinjector has 0,6mm orifice plate and 210 bar opening pressure, 000 injector has 150 bar opening pressure, no orifice plate.
If you calibrate a 992 after the testsheet with 000 ( wrong injectors)or even only wrong pipes, the engine goes bananas.
So just compare fuelamount is not the way to go.
IF you are going to put in a VE pump on a OM 603 for example, the pump must bee adjusted according to the testsheet for this engine. The things you can use in a sprinterpump is the distributor head & camplate that is a match. Put it in a mechanical housing and work with it in the testbench until it works OK.
Advanace piston in the VE pump is to be used, but you can not use the gear with advance that is when you have inlinepump, you need the sprocket from the sprinter, otherwise there can be a conflict with the advance.

If you are intend to go over 3500 rpm, the 12 & 14 mm rotorhead is no good, they do overfuel at low rpm and gives less fuel over 3500 rpm. 11 mm is the ideal size, nice curve on fuel up to over 5000 rpm.
12 mm is for agriculture pumps, high tourqe at low rpm.

(04-26-2011, 10:04 AM)winmutt Rain on my parade why dont you . I have found 4200 rpm governor springs for the VE pump, this would allow me to get close to PE pump rpms.