Intercooler picture thread? - Printable Version

Intercooler picture thread? - Printable Version

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Intercooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 06-08-2013

I'd like to put an Air to Air in the W123. Behind grill or under bumper, whatever space allows for. I will have all AC stuff removed.

I've seen pics of people's setups but they have only been the "At a Glance" sorta of picture. Any pics detailing pipe routing, sizing, etc.? It's tight down there, how can i fit my pipe?

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 06-10-2013

I will takes pics of the w124. Piping should come in today. The 27"x8"x4" IC I got is just about a perfect fit.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 06-10-2013

Its just tough to imagine without going electrical fans. Cutting metal and who knows what else.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - Druk - 06-10-2013

In front of the main rad in a 107.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 06-10-2013

(06-10-2013, 02:40 PM)lgreeley83 Its just tough to imagine without going electrical fans. Cutting metal and who knows what else.

And that's why I went with a smaller intercooler. Sure its not ideal, but cutting the bumper support or losing AC.... neither were justifiable. With a 602/605 there is way more room to move things around.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 06-10-2013

[Image: null_zps7bd81b02.jpg]

I cheat

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 06-10-2013

I've got the w115 manifold and have been considering that. Without a crossflow head I'm think it's the best bet. Every pic of a w123 air to air I think has had a non stock radiator and relocated oil cooler thus allowing some space. Maybe I'm wrong.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 06-10-2013

That air water looks like something someone was selling a few months back.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 06-11-2013

It is! Me and Kmaser made a deal, and I am now the proud owner of a A/W intercooler Cool

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 06-11-2013

My intercooler has gone places Big Grin

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 06-11-2013

HoleshotHolesets money shot

[Image: attachment.php?aid=5191]

EDH performance
[Image: IMG_3707.jpg]

Zeitgeist

Random pictures:
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTK9-eW6ja4wV3B40Y9Fe-...ukdjWdsgzE]

[Image: 71194d1250725309-w124-300e-m103-turbo-pr...g_0063.jpg]

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 06-11-2013

Was it yours originally winmutt?

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 06-12-2013

(06-11-2013, 09:56 PM)MFSuper90 Was it yours originally winmutt?

It was.

I test fitted piping and IC last night. Will get some metal from HD today and start working on the brackets, promise I'll take plenty of pics of routing etc.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 06-16-2013

Off topic but in the same realm...

Anybody know if the w123 240d radiator swaps with the 300d radiator? With a manual trans i wouldnt need the integrated cooler. Could I use the same hoses? Would the 300d oil cooler mount to it? I could delete the overflow tank.

This would allow more room for ic pipes as well as clean up the engine bay even more. I know cooling wouldn't be as great. I'd go electrical fan. The last pic above has a beast motor behind the 240 radiator it looks like.

I am getting lazy and don't feel like fabbing anything. Every one of my projects seems to go way longer than it should.

http://www.greasecar.com/forums/tech-tips/radiator-from-a-240d-into-a-300d

2 min on Google. Seems OK I guess.....

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - swampmonkey - 06-21-2013

(06-16-2013, 10:02 PM)lgreeley83 Off topic but in the same realm...

Anybody know if the w123 240d radiator swaps with the 300d radiator? With a manual trans i wouldnt need the integrated cooler. Could I use the same hoses? Would the 300d oil cooler mount to it? I could delete the overflow tank.

This would allow more room for ic pipes as well as clean up the engine bay even more. I know cooling wouldn't be as great. I'd go electrical fan. The last pic above has a beast motor behind the 240 radiator it looks like.

I am getting lazy and don't feel like fabbing anything. Every one of my projects seems to go way longer than it should.

http://www.greasecar.com/forums/tech-tips/radiator-from-a-240d-into-a-300d

2 min on Google. Seems OK I guess.....

make sure the sides is -kinda airtight- if you opens up, gives better flow throu radiator.
how much power are you planing? got a w123 coupe with om602turbo with dialed up pump and 280E radiator, got heatproblems when making long pushes.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 06-21-2013

Not too much, maybe 200 HP. I'll have 6mm (90cc fuel) pump on om617. 60 trim in the Garrett turbo.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 07-04-2013

Mounted.

[Image: 2013-07-04%2009.36.22.jpg]

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - Captain America - 07-07-2013

Air/Water is the most efficient so why not go that route?

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - winmutt - 07-07-2013

(07-07-2013, 07:22 PM)Captain America Air/Water is the most efficient so why not go that route?

At the end of the day, the space issue was still the same with the rad as the a/a intercoler. Then there was the space for the tank and yada yada. Most importantly is that you cant get on many courses (none around here) with a non oem air/water intercooler.

[Image: fmic.lights.jpg]

I have 4" clearence under the IC, went over some minor speed bumps no issue. I will probably redo the mounts and get it another 1" higher off the ground maybe and with some piping rework get better clearance.

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 07-07-2013

(07-07-2013, 07:22 PM)Captain America Air/Water is the most efficient so why not go that route?

I need one like yours. Is that guy still alive? I've got an extra 115 mani for him to mod for me. :-)

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - sassparilla_kid - 07-08-2013

(07-07-2013, 09:24 PM)lgreeley83
(07-07-2013, 07:22 PM)Captain America Air/Water is the most efficient so why not go that route?

I need one like yours. Is that guy still alive? I've got an extra 115 mani for him to mod for me. :-)

I'm pretty sure Captain America could fab you one if you sent him your manifold, he is a welder by trade lol

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - Captain America - 07-08-2013

Yeah I might be able to do that at the new place I'm working at, we are still setting up the shop so I'm at least a few weeks out

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - sassparilla_kid - 07-11-2013

I can't really find it right now on my phone, but what about the style FI used, I believe it was A/W and looked like a cylinder that ran parallel to the intake manifold

RE: Inter cooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 07-11-2013

Yeah that would be good too. Allow for work on the turbo without the big old A/W manifold in the way

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-292.html

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - winmutt - 08-30-2013

Got a little lift and tuck at the pastic surgeons today.
Before:
[Image: fmic.lights.jpg]

After:

I accomplished this by cutting into the radiator support about 1" where the plane of the back part of the support ends up at the top and then bent the sides back like wings. Kinda hard to describe without pics (which I should have taken). Doesn't seem like big numbers but the difference is pretty clear! At this point, the top mounts of the IC are about 1/4" off the bumper. I can remove all of the side material on the radiator mount and pound it flat and get the mount points underneath. To mount that I will have to drill a big hole through to top of the bumper support to allow access to a smaller hole for the bolt to go through to mount into the top of the intercooler. At that point the intercooler would almost be vertical and probably gain another 1/2" of clearance on the bottom as well as allow for a spoiler to go over it.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - Jambo - 09-03-2013

Hi,
While on the Intercooler topic.
Is there any sense in using the free integrated cooler (probably for the transmission) on a 300GD for a A/W intercooler? I know the temp would only cool to water temp of motor if that low. That would make things a lot simpler.

Alan

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - 1911diesel - 09-03-2013

i think the idea of the extra cooler system is to keep temps cooler. altho a w/a intercooler will not bring charge air temps lower then "out side" temps unless its hooked up to the ac system or an ice tank. but generally speaking, it wont cool as well as a a/a intercooler. and when you go hooking it to something thats already hot, like engine or tranny cooling fluids, you are just reducing the efficiency. im sure it would work, just not as well as it could.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - larsalan - 09-03-2013

+1000
Why would some hot ass radiator fluid help to cool down charge air?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 09-03-2013

(09-03-2013, 11:26 AM)1911diesel i think the idea of the extra cooler system is to keep temps cooler. altho a w/a intercooler will not bring charge air temps lower then "out side" temps unless its hooked up to the ac system or an ice tank. but generally speaking, it wont cool as well as a a/a intercooler. and when you go hooking it to something thats already hot, like engine or tranny cooling fluids, you are just reducing the efficiency. im sure it would work, just not as well as it could.

Actually W/A intercoolers are more efficient than A/A.

But he is right, I would definitely recommend making a seperate cooling system. It's really not that tough to setup a seperate system, I'll post better pics of mine sometime

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - 1911diesel - 09-03-2013

(09-03-2013, 05:03 PM)MFSuper90
(09-03-2013, 11:26 AM)1911diesel i think the idea of the extra cooler system is to keep temps cooler. altho a w/a intercooler will not bring charge air temps lower then "out side" temps unless its hooked up to the ac system or an ice tank. but generally speaking, it wont cool as well as a a/a intercooler. and when you go hooking it to something thats already hot, like engine or tranny cooling fluids, you are just reducing the efficiency. im sure it would work, just not as well as it could.

Actually W/A intercoolers are more efficient than A/A.

But he is right, I would definitely recommend making a seperate cooling system. It's really not that tough to setup a seperate system, I'll post better pics of mine sometime

well, you can think what you want, but it really depends on the application you are using the intercooler on, besides that. cooler charge air no matter how its cooled it has to be better then hot charge air.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - raysorenson - 09-04-2013

(09-03-2013, 05:03 PM)MFSuper90 Actually W/A intercoolers are more efficient than A/A.

When you say "more efficient", are you speaking in terms of thermal capacity, the rate at which the system sheds heat to the air or restriction?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - Captain America - 09-04-2013

(09-03-2013, 11:26 AM)1911diesel i think the idea of the extra cooler system is to keep temps cooler. altho a w/a intercooler will not bring charge air temps lower then "out side" temps unless its hooked up to the ac system or an ice tank. but generally speaking, it wont cool as well as a a/a intercooler. and when you go hooking it to something thats already hot, like engine or tranny cooling fluids, you are just reducing the efficiency. im sure it would work, just not as well as it could.

You dont "hook into" them. If using coolant you use 1mm bleed holes just to keep the levels between the engine cooling system and the A/W cooling system equal. You keep 1 fill point that way instead of having 2... but they are still separate.

Here is mine

Had to make new turnbuckles, Rudolf's were garbage

(09-04-2013, 08:57 PM)raysorenson
(09-03-2013, 05:03 PM)MFSuper90 Actually W/A intercoolers are more efficient than A/A.

When you say "more efficient", are you speaking in terms of thermal capacity, the rate at which the system sheds heat to the air or restriction?

I would say capacity is much more and rate of change is much less with water

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - 85-300D - 09-05-2013

(09-04-2013, 11:05 PM)Captain America
(09-03-2013, 11:26 AM)1911diesel i think the idea of the extra cooler system is to keep temps cooler. altho a w/a intercooler will not bring charge air temps lower then "out side" temps unless its hooked up to the ac system or an ice tank. but generally speaking, it wont cool as well as a a/a intercooler. and when you go hooking it to something thats already hot, like engine or tranny cooling fluids, you are just reducing the efficiency. im sure it would work, just not as well as it could.

You dont "hook into" them. If using coolant you use 1mm bleed holes just to keep the levels between the engine cooling system and the A/W cooling system equal. You keep 1 fill point that way instead of having 2... but they are still separate.

Here is mine

Had to make new turnbuckles, Rudolf's were garbage

(09-04-2013, 08:57 PM)raysorenson
(09-03-2013, 05:03 PM)MFSuper90 Actually W/A intercoolers are more efficient than A/A.

When you say "more efficient", are you speaking in terms of thermal capacity, the rate at which the system sheds heat to the air or restriction?

I would say capacity is much more and rate of change is much less with water

Nice looking setup. What turbo are you running?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - sassparilla_kid - 09-05-2013

He has a stock Garrett rebuilt with a .60 trim compressor housing

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - 85-300D - 09-05-2013

Thanks.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - Captain America - 09-06-2013

(09-05-2013, 10:21 AM)85-300D Nice looking setup. What turbo are you running?

Thank you. And yeah, haha, super badass Garrett T3 with the 60 trim comp wheel lol. You can find the detailed infor on it in the turbo sticky thread. Its the second post

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2516-post-28225.html#pid28225

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 09-06-2013

"What ranges of efficiency can be expected from an intercooler?
A typical air-to-air intercooler for a street application achieves between 60% and 70% efficiency, an excellent/optimum design for road racing can approach close to 90% efficiency, but requires an adequate "budget!”

Typically, a liquid-to-air intercooler achieves higher efficiencies than an air-to-air intercooler, starting at 75% efficiency and reaching peaks of 95% efficiency. Another advantage is the optional use of ice as a coolant, which is the only way to reduce the charge-air temperature below the ambient air temperature."

That quote is from Bell's website. But I also found some of the frequently ask questions contradicting sometimes.

My intercooler. Winmutts old setup
[Image: null_zps0a3939db.jpg]

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - winmutt - 09-06-2013

One thing you can do with both of them is mist, more of a direct effect on the A/A. The problem with A/W is heatsoak.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - sassparilla_kid - 09-06-2013

Mist?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - larsalan - 09-06-2013

Mist means spraying water onto an a/a intercooler and just letting it fall down onto the pavement. See you later heat Wink

Right?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 09-07-2013

How would you mist a w/a?
And I've been thinking about running a w/m setup to clean up my ports (they are grimy as hell from egr), probably not a good idea to shoot before the cooler is it?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - 1911diesel - 09-07-2013

(09-07-2013, 02:57 PM)MFSuper90 How would you mist a w/a?
And I've been thinking about running a w/m setup to clean up my ports (they are grimy as hell from egr), probably not a good idea to shoot before the cooler is it?

well i dont know about on a benz, but on the 7.3 idi a fellow FTE board member has 3 nozzles one pre turbo ( yes pre turbo) one pre cooler and one just before the intake. and he runs no meth, just water. and he says it dropped his egts by a lot. take that for what you will. but i plan on running one nozzle pre cooler and one post cooler. but be careful, too much water can cause pinging and damage the tops of pistons. i saw pics of the damage it has caused ill see if i can dig up the thread or the pics on FTE.

(09-07-2013, 02:57 PM)MFSuper90 How would you mist a w/a?
And I've been thinking about running a w/m setup to clean up my ports (they are grimy as hell from egr), probably not a good idea to shoot before the cooler is it?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - JarrusJenkins - 09-08-2013

(09-07-2013, 02:57 PM)MFSuper90 How would you mist a w/a?
And I've been thinking about running a w/m setup to clean up my ports (they are grimy as hell from egr), probably not a good idea to shoot before the cooler is it?

Best after the your W/A intercooler, else the water will condense on the charge cooler elements,

Where did you get the core for your intercooler?

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - winmutt - 09-08-2013

Right so there is water injection in the intake (preturbo / pre & postintercooler and also misting on the intercooler itself, which can improve efficiency 20-30% of the intercooler. Injecting directly into the intake is more efficient of course (20% more efficiency at the intercooler will not yield the same results). I already plan on doing direct in the intake. I hit 105 in 4th yesterday and my egts were 1050 or so, my care is loving this cooler climate. In the summer we are 90+ all summer long usually and into the hundreds for a few weeks.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 09-08-2013

(09-08-2013, 07:20 AM)JarrusJenkins Best after the your W/A intercooler, else the water will condense on the charge cooler elements,

Where did you get the core for your intercooler?

Ask winmutt, he built it Tongue

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - Hario' - 10-02-2013

Totally thought I was breaking new ice with my Evo6 intercooler swap into my W210 until I saw the one fitted to the poo brown squaredy Merc in winmutts post further up.

Damn it.

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - Tito - 10-03-2013

here's some (crappy) pictures of my intercooler setup. I wanted a clean and stealth look. The hoses fit really tight under the headlamp units. There's some adjustment needed. Essentially, everything that stick out under the unit needs to be removed.

[Image: null_zpsfc53fd27.jpg]

[Image: 04B7AD10-054F-4367-AA26-B1D5D8158E3F-747...1380740995]

[Image: 474740EA-1F45-4F13-AC89-93159D833ABA-747...1380740986]

Just got the car up and running a hour ago. Sounds great Cool

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - lgreeley83 - 10-03-2013

(09-06-2013, 02:32 PM)MFSuper90 "What ranges of efficiency can be expected from an intercooler?
A typical air-to-air intercooler for a street application achieves between 60% and 70% efficiency, an excellent/optimum design for road racing can approach close to 90% efficiency, but requires an adequate "budget!”

Typically, a liquid-to-air intercooler achieves higher efficiencies than an air-to-air intercooler, starting at 75% efficiency and reaching peaks of 95% efficiency. Another advantage is the optional use of ice as a coolant, which is the only way to reduce the charge-air temperature below the ambient air temperature."

That quote is from Bell's website. But I also found some of the frequently ask questions contradicting sometimes.

My intercooler. Winmutts old setup

I imagine the manifold nuts were horrible to get at. Like punch yourself in the face annoyed.

(10-03-2013, 01:11 PM)Tito here's some (crappy) pictures of my intercooler setup. I wanted a clean and stealth look. The hoses fit really tight under the headlamp units. There's some adjustment needed. Essentially, everything that stick out under the unit needs to be removed.

Just got the car up and running a hour ago. Sounds great

Looks good

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - MFSuper90 - 10-05-2013

(10-03-2013, 05:01 PM)lgreeley83 I imagine the manifold nuts were horrible to get at. Like punch yourself in the face

Believe it or not, they weren't that bad. But I am not a very big guy, so I Can fit my little arms and hands in places most guys can't Big Grin

RE: Intercooler picture thread? - mike-81-240d - 10-11-2013

I like the in front of radiator placement, but some of us still have A/C. Maybe delete the mechanical fan and make it go A/A intercooler -> A/C exchanger ->Radiator -> spal. Deleting the fan in exchange for a spal would make more room to move the radiator closer to the engine. Hmm