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+--- Thread: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project (/showthread.php?tid=5618)
C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 05-23-2014
Hello guys! I am building a poor man's AMG
Goal is: 301HP without smoke, pulling from basement to attic
Engine: OM605 1997
Turbo: GT2260V (BMW 330d) with bigger compressor wheel = GT2264V
Exhaust: -open-
Pump: serie
Chip: modified to pumps maximum ~ 93ccm
1.8 bar boost pressure, no smoke
![[Image: attach-398054.jpg]](http://tdiclub.hu/upload/attach/attach-398054.jpg)
It goes like this now, 100-200km/h=19 sec http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_od3Bt9k4vw
I was thinking of modifing the delivery valves, to get more from the serie pump.
This is where I would need your kind help... Where should we start?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - maxypriest - 05-23-2014
Blast - that 250 goes really well!
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Duncansport - 05-23-2014
(05-23-2014, 02:04 AM)ViSoR Hello guys! I am building a poor man's AMG
Goal is: 301HP without smoke, pulling from basement to attic
Engine: OM605 1997
Turbo: GT2260V (BMW 330d) with bigger compressor wheel = GT2264V
Exhaust: -open-
Pump: serie
Chip: modified to pumps maximum ~ 93ccm
1.8 bar boost pressure, no smoke
It goes like this now, 100-200km/h=19 sec http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_od3Bt9k4vw
I was thinking of modifing the delivery valves, to get more from the serie pump.
This is where I would need your kind help... Where should we start?
Contact Dieselmeken about elements, might be a bit of a project if you running the edc pump.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 05-23-2014
(05-23-2014, 07:14 AM)Duncansport Contact Dieselmeken about elements, might be a bit of a project if you running the edc pump.
Yes, thanks for the advice, but I would like to keep the factory 6mm elements, like he did in this video. This 150cc would be far enough to reach 300HP+. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXY6fYnmBU
And obviously he is not going to tell what to change and how to achive this quantity
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Petar - 05-23-2014
I recommend swapping the elements for bigger ones it's much better way.BTW very good result with 6mm elements,I thought they were good for only ~45hp per cylinder. Whats your EGTs ?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 05-23-2014
(05-23-2014, 03:14 PM)Petar I recommend swapping the elements for bigger ones it's much better way.BTW very good result with 6mm elements,I thought they were good for only ~45hp per cylinder. Whats your EGTs ?
EGT has not been measured yet. Actually the 6mm elements could do more, my car was 280HP+ at one stage of the programming, but it was too close to the 5 Volt limit of the HDK and sometimes the overvoltage shut the engine down. Only in 1st gear if I accelerated from rolling idle, but still... It was so brutal I nearly flew thru the windshield when the engine cut off
Okey, we'll put 7mm elements in for a test. We bought them here: http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info.php?products_id=3271
Does anybody have experience with these? My friend tried them, but they weren't enought for his Quattro OM606 HX50 + Eaton M90 beast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loqjkLgMh6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRiqkGPglMg
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Duncansport - 05-24-2014
Diesekmeken sells his 7.5mm and 8mm by elements themselves i believe? Im sure you know the benefits of a larger element other then more fuel...
Good work by the way! That 606 is pretty great.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 05-24-2014
(05-24-2014, 02:39 PM)Duncansport Diesekmeken sells his 7.5mm and 8mm by elements themselves i believe? Im sure you know the benefits of a larger element other then more fuel...
Good work by the way! That 606 is pretty great.
I'm not really sure about the other benefits.
I tuned VW TDI engines for the last few years - bigger element meant more problems (more heat, noise, larger load on the timing belt, higher consumption, extra fuel pressure need before the pump etc). I mean reaching 300PS by a VW pump was not this civilized as is my Merc now, that's why I'm a bit afraid of the 7mm elements 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qsE8wdlub0
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Duncansport - 05-24-2014
I have 7.5mm elements in my 602 pump and it drives the same around town, highway and starting is the same as factory 5.5mm's. But there is much much more fuel when called upon.
Running larger elements means that the injection duration is shorter. This allows you to run a bit more timing on the pump and helps to reduce EGT's...all leading to more power.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 05-25-2014
(05-24-2014, 07:13 PM)Duncansport Running larger elements means that the injection duration is shorter. This allows you to run a bit more timing on the pump and helps to reduce EGT's...all leading to more power.
Thank you, I am convinced. Let's 7mm!
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Petar - 05-25-2014
Get an EGT gauge or you can melt your engine.Go bigger elements,you won't be dissapointed i am sure. TDIs are whole different beasts compared to these engines indirect injection and timing chain not a belt for instance.Those elements from dieselkontor.de are i think old ford transit elements, they will be louder at idle, but other than that no difference in driveability.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Tito - 05-25-2014
VE pumps are way different than inline Bosch pump. Dieselmeken modified pumps are easy to adjust. I thought 8mm's ran a bit rough on idle.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 07-10-2014
|Following this build as I am collecting parts to do the same, bigger elements and retain EDC pump, Win!
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 07-15-2014
News?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - mbz123 - 07-16-2014
(05-23-2014, 02:04 AM)ViSoR Goal is: 301HP
Comedy!
Was there any involved process used to arrive at such an "arbitrary" rating for your goal? Or could it be prime perhaps?
I'm thinking if that guy out front is not a born leader, he might get a bit lonely at times. 8-D
Updates, updates... where are the udpates???
MBZ123
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 08-14-2014
Well you should start with gettting full rack travel from your IP, this is the tutorial I saved from the mentioned thread, and the associated pictorial, my version will have in series, an arming switch in the cockpit, a (max) accelerator switch, and a manifold pressure switch. This way the circuit is only armed when you arm it by hand, and you are in a full load situation, to keep street driveability. Enjoy.
![[Image: 606IPmaxloadfuellingmodSchematic.jpg]](http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/Mercedes_Power/media/606IPmaxloadfuellingmodSchematic.jpg.html)
![[Image: ipfullfuelresistormodecuendofwiringharness.png]](http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/Mercedes_Power/media/ipfullfuelresistormodecuendofwiringharness.png.html)
From tomnik OP thread.. http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=731
full load increase electronic governor
Hi,
found an information where a guy increased the full load on his 250 Turbodiesel with electronic governor. He installed a resistor 4 kOhm and a switch as a bridge between pin 6 (blue/yellow) and pin 7 (grey/black).
Additionally he added a temperatur switch to activate the increase only at a certain temperature.
Maybe the procedure is the same for the 606 engine.
The complete thread is http://fmso.de/forum/messages/802344.htm
in German.
Update:
Confirmed this morning relating to the rack position sensor:
Pin 1 - Red
Pin 6 - Green
Pin 7 - Black
The colors cited correspond with the pump's internal wiring harness. Here's a little more detailed description:
1 - Red - Rack position (Side 1) ECU pin 21
6 - Green - Rack position (Common) ECU pin 14
7 - Black - Rack position (Side 2) ECU pin 39
2 - Tan - Solenoid ECU pin 1 and 2
3 - Tan - Solenoid ECU pin 17 and 16
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 09-25-2014
News?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 10-12-2014
Sorry for the summer break, but the GT2264 BMW turbo returned to God
On very hot day I was measuring 0-100 km/h runs, and after the 8th attempt, everything overheated. Only 2 mm pieces left of the turbine in the AMG tailpipe
After 10 minutes (!) of cooling down, there was still burning oil smoke coming from what's left of the turbo. My bad... But I don't build a a car to rot in my garage. What is weak will break and be replaced with harder parts. (EGT gauge bought 
)So! Now I am looking for a WG turbo that can handle 300HP and can spool under 2500 rpm. I have a stronger GTB22 with 64mm GTX compressor wheel, but now I assume it would only be good for 270-280HP so and I am willing to give up my VTG dreams.
Good news is with the very unsporty 5 speed manual, I managed to run 6.x second constantly before everything went to flames
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 10-24-2014
Aha! BEst way to learn is by doing things wrong and breaking parts.. Or be really conservative because of lack of funds like me.
Any engine build pictures??
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-04-2015
Happy new year everyone!
For 2015 I decided to stop fooling around with wedding ring sized turbos, be a man like Hario' ... so we put a HX35 on the device and installed some cheap 7mm elements too.
Originally I would have liked a GTX3076 or something like that, but that I found a bit overkill in price for my project, so I bought a new Holset HX35 for €200 and hoped for the best...
And kinda fell on my face. Dont get me wrong, this is the first time that the car actually feels fast, 100-200kmh in 13sec (same as BMW E39 M5 400HP), but the lag!!! In 1st gear it doesnt spool at all! In second gear it starts to spool from 4500rpm. In 3rd gear it spools from 4000 rpm and spins the wheels instantly to the revlimit. So at this point she is a 100% dynoqueen, way more than 300HP but absolutely good for nothing
I hope that this is not the real characteristic of the HX35 on this engine, this is only because of the ECU has not been adjusted yet. She doesnt even smoke till 4000rpm. I assume that the ECU doesnt see turbo pressure until 4000rpm, so it wont give more fuel, so the turbo cant spool.... Catch 22.
We will remap it next week, and try to set the revlimit over 6000rpm a bit.
Test VIDEO 100-200km/h
Stock OM605 7mm element + HX35 1.6bar
PHOTO
Hario'! Can you tell me something promising about your spool?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - mantahead - 01-04-2015
good luck with the rev limit
what size is exhaust housing on that hx35(12cm)?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-04-2015
12cm I think.
Another interesting thing, we cant get the HX35 over 1.8bar. Maybe the 60mm exhaust chokes it, but I'm afraid if I upgrade it to 76mm it will be even more laggier.
(01-04-2015, 09:53 AM)mantahead good luck with the rev limit
what size is exhaust housing on that hx35(12cm)?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Petar - 01-04-2015
(01-04-2015, 10:37 AM)ViSoR 12cm I think.
Another interesting thing, we cant get the HX35 over 1.8bar. Maybe the 60mm exhaust chokes it, but I'm afraid if I upgrade it to 76mm it will be even more laggier.
Why do you think bigger exhaust would make it laggier ? Turbines work based on pressure difference so reducing backpressure would make it spool faster.
Yeah you should definatly remap the ECU. And make sure it overfuells slightly off boost. What exhaust manifold are you using ? It can make quite a difference in spool time.
But don't expect expect it to spool much below 2700-3000 rpm...
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-04-2015
Yes, we will try to overfuel it. I'm using the OM manifold, not the best, the turbo much further away now unfortunately from the cyl head.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - mantahead - 01-04-2015
hi, hx35 and 7.5mm elements (green graph is electronic pump)
[img]
![[Image: utf-8BSU1HMDA1NDUtMjAxMTEwMTUtMTYzNS5qcGc.jpg]](http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/mantahead1/media/utf-8BSU1HMDA1NDUtMjAxMTEwMTUtMTYzNS5qcGc.jpg.html)
[/img]that was large 18.5cm exhaust housing, i always had rev limit problems,
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-04-2015
Hi
Dieselkontor elements?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-04-2015
(01-04-2015, 01:23 PM)mantahead hi, hx35 and 7.5mm elements (green graph is electronic pump)
that was large 18.5cm exhaust housing, i always had rev limit problems,
Now that looks much better than what I feel now. Altough on dyno under full load in fifth gear, everything spools faster than on the street if you try to overtake.
Will try with 76mm exhaust instead of 60mm. But in my experience that helps top end only.
bruno_pinho - Yes dieselkontor type 7mm elements.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-04-2015
(01-04-2015, 03:38 PM)ViSoR(01-04-2015, 01:23 PM)mantahead hi, hx35 and 7.5mm elements (green graph is electronic pump)
that was large 18.5cm exhaust housing, i always had rev limit problems,
Now that looks much better than what I feel now. Altough on dyno under full load in fifth gear, everything spools faster than on the street if you try to overtake.
Will try with 76mm exhaust instead of 60mm. But in my experience that helps topend only.
bruno_pinho - Yes dieselkontor type 7mm elements.
I also have the same elements in an electric pump ...
a question, notes well more noisy pump? my was enough after applying the elements ..
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-05-2015
(01-04-2015, 03:57 PM)bruno_pinho I also have the same elements in an electric pump ...
a question, notes well more noisy pump? my was enough after applying the elements ..
It is a bit louder and shakier on idle, feels like one cylinder is missing out sometimes. If I start to rev it, there is no difference than before.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-11-2015
Updates?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 01-12-2015
HX35 will be too laggy on my EDC pumped W202 C250. So I have nearly finished by quick spool valve to try and bring back some bottom end.
If not I will have to scrap the idea for the medium-term as by W202 has a 722.6 so I will need a controller before I can go mechanical pump..
In the UK it seems to be ecu remapping is nothing more than a myth!!??
Compounding with a HX35 over the OEM KKK might be the only way to go...
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-12-2015
But you arrive to tune the electronics?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 01-13-2015
Can't find anyone in UK! I'll be using the 'resistor/potentiometer mod to add off-boost fuel to spool the turbo, that is the main issue.
ViSoR you need to measure EGP to find out whats going on with your boost issue!
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - yorkshire1 - 01-14-2015
(01-13-2015, 04:52 AM)Hario Can't find anyone in UK! I'll be using the 'resistor/potentiometer mod to add off-boost fuel to spool the turbo, that is the main issue.
ViSoR you need to measure EGP to find out whats going on with your boost issue!
Give this chap a ring he remapped my 605, Simon on 07957 240822 worth a call, nice chap
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 01-14-2015
Thanks!
Do you have any more info? Email, company name etc? Its a post ECU desolder chip job isn't it?
Also how is your s202 different to my w202?
Beers, H.
(01-04-2015, 10:59 AM)PetarIt would be laggier because the scroll has a bigger exit area where the exhaust gas impinges on the turbine wheel requiring more exhaust flow to achieve turbine speed to produce boost, ie more revs, ie more lag.(01-04-2015, 10:37 AM)ViSoR 12cm I think.
Another interesting thing, we cant get the HX35 over 1.8bar. Maybe the 60mm exhaust chokes it, but I'm afraid if I upgrade it to 76mm it will be even more laggier.
Why do you think bigger exhaust would make it laggier ? Turbines work based on pressure difference so reducing backpressure would make it spool faster.
Yeah you should definatly remap the ECU. And make sure it overfuells slightly off boost. What exhaust manifold are you using ? It can make quite a difference in spool time.
But don't expect expect it to spool much below 2700-3000 rpm...
Your mention of needing an increase in offboost fuelling opened my eyes to the no fuel from ECU = no boost = no fuel added by ECU paradox of the stock ECU where it waits for boost before it increases fueling. Therefore: would the crude 'resistor mod' in the edc wiring loom to give more rack travel give me the extra fuel off boost to spool the big turbo? (Without a remap).
If you guys aren't confused my what I just said I think I am..
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-14-2015
I see that many problems will reprogram the ECU, I so far not had any problems, I have the tuning I want ....
But for the week I will ask to put the rotation ace 6000rpm because apparently still no one did, I think it will be fine ...
I leave a video of my car, I think this is not bad for a pump with elements of dieselkontor and the turbo I have ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJi9fIloFFo
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - yorkshire1 - 01-15-2015
(01-14-2015, 02:58 PM)Hario Thanks!
Do you have any more info? Email, company name etc? Its a post ECU desolder chip job isn't it?
Also how is your s202 different to my w202?
Beers, H.
(01-04-2015, 10:59 AM)PetarIt would be laggier because the scroll has a bigger exit area where the exhaust gas impinges on the turbine wheel requiring more exhaust flow to achieve turbine speed to produce boost, ie more revs, ie more lag.(01-04-2015, 10:37 AM)ViSoR 12cm I think.
Another interesting thing, we cant get the HX35 over 1.8bar. Maybe the 60mm exhaust chokes it, but I'm afraid if I upgrade it to 76mm it will be even more laggier.
Why do you think bigger exhaust would make it laggier ? Turbines work based on pressure difference so reducing backpressure would make it spool faster.
Yeah you should definatly remap the ECU. And make sure it overfuells slightly off boost. What exhaust manifold are you using ? It can make quite a difference in spool time.
But don't expect expect it to spool much below 2700-3000 rpm...
Your mention of needing an increase in offboost fuelling opened my eyes to the no fuel from ECU = no boost = no fuel added by ECU paradox of the stock ECU where it waits for boost before it increases fueling. Therefore: would the crude 'resistor mod' in the edc wiring loom to give more rack travel give me the extra fuel off boost to spool the big turbo? (Without a remap).
If you guys aren't confused my what I just said I think I am..
yeah thats right involves soldering I had mine done about 21/2 years ago now and at the moment I cant for the life of me remember the company name, I just put his number in my phone , Ill do a bit of searching see if I can track anything down, Ive put a few people on to him like you say there arent many that do it
my car,s just a daily driver atm does about 30,000/yr so I got about another 25/30HP and put a 2.8 diff in it for economy its a manual
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - yorkshire1 - 01-15-2015
Found him, Simon Coe
http://www.ccctech.co.uk/
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-24-2015
Update:
We have remapped the ECU, the vehicle is a beast!
Revlimit is at 6000 rpm now. Unfortunately I was right about the exhaust. Upgrading from 60mm to 76mm, didn't do anything! No boost pressure change, no power gain, no faster spool, no nothing. A bit quieter I guess... I give you my word, an open 60mm exhaust is far enough till ~350HP!
Next week I will make you new a video, I couldn't get the car from the mechanic yet because it starts badly. The fuel flows back from the pump to the tank, because some fuelvalve fault since the element change. Fix that, and than I will go to dyno again.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-25-2015
Do not understand why do not more pressure
As these to control the pressure, with a tap or by the ecu?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - ViSoR - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 06:10 AM)bruno_pinho Do not understand why do not more pressure
As these to control the pressure, with a tap or by the ecu?
Pressure is controlled by the own actuator of the HX35, only with bigger springs to keep is closed longer.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-26-2015
I will also make 76mm exhaust line because everybody says it's better but I think it was not necessary
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - seanyt - 01-26-2015
Just got an edc 8mm pump. For my compound turbo conversion.
Has your tuner been able to get your ecu limits up to 6k rpm?
My tuner hasn't looked at it yet. But I've socketed my ecu and he has the files dumped
Loving all these edc tuning lately . Mine is in a Lexus is200.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Ksteen2 - 01-27-2015
when you want over 2 bar in pressure, you see the differense with the exhaust, its not hust about the boost, its also about low back pressure and a god egt
and you'r original manifold is a BIG brake, I cant get over 1,7 bar with my 606 with a k27 with 12cm house, and dieselkontor 7mm
I had 2,7 with a hx52 and a home made tubilar manifold, both 3,5" exhaust and 4" DP
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 01-28-2015
Regarding rev limit increase, I found out 605 has 5 tags on flywheel for rpm pickup, and 606 has 6, so I have an idea:
To raise rpms on 606, you fit 605 flywheel.
To raise rpms on 605, you fit 604 flywheel - (if it has 4 tags, NOT CHECKED).
Or - move the crank pickup to the pickup bracket at the front of the engine (looks like crank position sensor bracket on petrol car) and fit however many tags to crank pulley as you need to make sensor under read, probably drill in radially and locktite in bolts as hall effect pickup tags?
In all cases need to adjust idle speed in map to correct as it will try to overspeed (thinking engine is turning slower than it is).
?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Ksteen2 - 01-28-2015
you'r tackometer will not work proporly then :o
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - Hario' - 01-28-2015
Oh my gaaad....
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - erx - 01-28-2015
Does 605 have one or two sensors near starter motor? My 1994 604 has two, upper is for ecu and lower in oil pan is for tacho, it reads starter motor teeth on flywheel. I swapped to 606 and put that tacho sensor back and tacho is working, I use mechanic pump.
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - bruno_pinho - 01-28-2015
(01-28-2015, 03:45 PM)erx Does 605 have one or two sensors near starter motor? My 1994 604 has two, upper is for ecu and lower in oil pan is for tacho, it reads starter motor teeth on flywheel. I swapped to 606 and put that tacho sensor back and tacho is working, I use mechanic pump.
But that flywheel you used?
RE: C250TD OM605 300HP+ Street Project - erx - 01-28-2015
I have automatic, flywheel is from 606.