+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Other (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Forum: Projects (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: W124 build (/showthread.php?tid=6478)
W124 build - whipplem104 - 04-30-2015
I know I have posted around at a bit of what I am doing here in different sections but now we are starting with the actual car build. Glamour shot of the brakes with wheels on. Also moved the radiator and a/c condenser back to fit the intercooler. Going to be a 3.5x18x19 core. And we will not be cutting out the front bumper cross member. I will post more pictures as we go. This is just in mock up.
We are also going to put 500e fenders on and do a custom setup on the rear with the 500e rear cladding but the sheet metal will be custom. AMG body kit to go with.
Of course turbo om606 with upgraded pump and headers with an Borgwarner Airwerks turbo. Still working on the size and setup on that. It will have a dump on the exhaust if we can get it to fit.
What has been done already is 722.6 swap with built transmission and PCS standalone tcu. Lowering springs and koni shocks limo swap bars. New bushings and ball joints etc. Brakes are getting finalized with new front mounting brackets. AMG 6 piston front and 4 piston rear. Forgestar wheels with 285 series in the back and 245 in the fronts 18" wheels.
Driveline will be upgraded later on with the 210mm differential with the Quaife ATB lsd. Custom driveshaft. No flex discs. We will see on the axles but it will not be a from a dig car so I do not think that will be necessary.
RE: W124 build - raysorenson - 04-30-2015
That's a lot of room in front of the condenser. I'd like to see what you end up doing for a fan, since I want a 3.5" core too.
RE: W124 build - Repetitio - 05-01-2015
Nice rims!
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-01-2015
I am planning on one or two low profile fans on the radiator side. Depending on fitment. We have a very mild climate so it really just needs enough air flow at idle to keep the engine from overheating in traffic. It will not be a warm weather car. If you dumped a/c then there would be about another inch or more.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-04-2015
Figured out that I am going to put 2 smaller a/c condensers in under the headlamps behind the bumper with fans. 1 on each side. This will allow me to get rid of the stock condenser and free up some space and air flow. I should be able to put a radiator fan on as well with this additional room.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-06-2015
Working on the intake manifold. Got a BW S366 fmw turbo on order and a kkd exhaust manifold.
RE: W124 build - maxypriest - 05-06-2015
I made a custom intake that basically doubled the volume of the plenum while also offering a genuine 3" intake. The results so far ( first test today) are impressive and I'm sure it's makes a difference.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-06-2015
That is good to hear. This should be close to double the size with the swept inlet. It will have a 3 inch inlet as well. I am thinking of leaving a small sliver of the mandrel bends in as they pull apart to help split the air flow. But it makes it a bit more complicated to cut and weld.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-07-2015
Just got off the phone with the company that is going to make the a/c condensers and seems like in the 2-300 each range for 10x10 condensers on each side. I took out the stock condenser and with it gone there is more than enough room for the intercooler and radiator and a low profile fan on the radiator side. This is a rock solid solution for these cars if it performs well and it should since the total surface area will be the same as the original. I will install a small fan on each and encapsulate the wheel well to the front bumper to protect them. This will be later on though.
RE: W124 build - raysorenson - 05-07-2015
Cool. Literally. I already upgraded to a thinner parallel flow condenser to make a little more room for an IC, with bumper support trimming. I'm interested in seeing your solution.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-08-2015
So I got the intake tacked together and was doing some flow testing to see if it was balanced at all. I started with leaving a little of the v in the bottom of the mandrels to divert the air away from cyl3 and of course had little to now flow through cyl3. Cut one side out and it was a little better and then opened it up completely and cyl3 had the highest flow. Then I started playing with the plenum volume with some cardboard and just increasing the plenum size changes the cylinders with the most flow dramatically. This is understandable due to the way the air is bouncing around but I was a little astonished how much. Depending on just this one variable the cylinders with the most flow change almost completely. I am going to build another mock up of a completely tapered plenum to see if I can balance out the flow. Mostly I want to reduce the degrees at which the air enters the plenum to something closer to 18 degrees. I will have to see how much room I have in the car as well.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 05-25-2015
Turbo came in. BW s300sx fmw with a 61.4x83.4 compressor and if I remember correctly a 76mm turbine with a 1.00 a/r. twin scroll. Went through all of matchbot and seems like we should be able to get a decent spool out of this turbo and still have no problems with flow on the top end. If it is a little lazy we will just put some spray on to spool it up. Car might end up with spray on it anyways. We will see.
Headers are on the way. The injection pump is getting shipped out this week and I need to call back on the intercooler to find out what is going on.
Got the rear AMG brakes mounted. A little trimming on the backing plate and longer bolts and they are pretty bolt on ready. Still waiting on brackets for the fronts.
500e front fenders will be in next week and I will start swapping the engine shortly after I am confident about all the placement of things.
RE: W124 build - Hario' - 05-26-2015
Awesome! You move like the Finnish..
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 06-19-2015
Intercooler came in today from Bell Intercoolers. Custom to our spec.
RE: W124 build - Turbo - 06-22-2015
Hi
Who at bell intercoolers did you speak to? I was in contact with them but and they promise they come back and and they promise again and after that they do not answer any more, it is a pity since they seams to have great stuff, can you share your specification?
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 06-30-2015
Got the manifold in from KKD. With the Tial waste gates. Will test fit in the car hopefully later this week. Also got to make sure the turbo will clock into position on this manifold. But looks pretty good. Now I just have a lot of fab work to do to get it all plumbed in.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-01-2015
Well unfortunately. There is no way the waste gates are going to fit in the car in the current location. So I am going to have to cut the flanges off and relocate them. I think I can salvage the manifold. The rear one just plain hits the car. I could barely get the manifold in the car without the waste gate attached. The front one does fit in but there is no way to clock the turbo were I want it.
Also the turbo flange is warped. So it is going to have to be decked. Which it should have been before shipping.
RE: W124 build - Hario' - 07-01-2015
Bad from manufacturing QA. What model is the manifold meant for then?
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-02-2015
Got a little intake plumbing laid out today and the intercooler position set.
Also figured out how to get the waste gates configured. I am ordering some pipe in for the down pipe and the waste gates and will get that tacked up in the next week. Maybe longer. It is a little hot here to be welding.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-02-2015
What is amazing is that I have not had to cut anything on the car to get this all this in and the front bumper fits back on and covers the bottom of the intercooler and plumbing.
RE: W124 build - raysorenson - 07-03-2015
3.5" core still?
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-04-2015
Yes.
Just to be clear though I did have to move the radiator back a little tiny bit.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-22-2015
Getting the waste gates dialed in and new coolant reservoir.
RE: W124 build - Booster - 07-23-2015
I'm almost glad you had to re-make the wastegate ports as that looks the bomb!!
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-23-2015
Thank you. I am pretty pleased with the way it is turning out. It is a lot to pack into that space. And getting the waste gates close to the same angle and position from left to right etc was hard. The w210 coolant tank is a savior. And the hose looks like it will work from the w210 as well. Just need some mounts.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 07-28-2015
Getting somewhere with valve springs. Going to send everything in to Ferrea. Looks like we might get something put together. Will be atleast a few more weeks before I know.
RE: W124 build - Turbo - 08-11-2015
How did it go with the AC condenser?
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 08-11-2015
We have not gotten there yet. I have the contact to get them made. I wanted to get everything else done 1st. So this will be a little while off. I will post pictures though when it is that time.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 08-27-2015
Got the waste gates dumps done. Need to do brackets, egt bungs and then oil lines. Also have the injection pump in. Hopefully a few more weeks and will do the engine swap and get this fired up.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 10-03-2015
Getting the intake finished up.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 10-04-2015
Got the intake side plumbing done. Intercooler is mounted. Just have to finish up the turbo side and ready to drop in the motor and send off things to get coated.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 10-05-2015
Got the rest of the piping mostly finished up. I still have a few little tweeks on the turbo side. And I have to come up with a mount for the passenger side. I am thinking a couple of springs to hold it in position. That way it will still allow movement. The turbo side I moved the clamp to a more vertical section to allow up and down movement in the piping as it moves through behind the headlamp. That way it will not try and pry the headlamp out of the car. The vibrant clamps are pretty nice and they really afford a lot of movement and of course very forgiving for alignment of the pipes.
Should be wrapped up with this tomorrow. and then oil lines for the turbo and I think I am ready to send parts out to get coated. Will swap the engine while they are out. And work on the coolant res. mounting etc. etc.
I did get the electric fuel pump baskets mounted and switched the tank sock filter over and so all I really need to do is get a Bosch 044 and wire it up.
Going to do a fuel flow test through the lines and filters and see where the bottle knecks are and start replacing things as needed.
RE: W124 build - erx - 10-15-2015
Nice project.
What are the expectations of hp from this setup?(05-25-2015, 11:00 PM)whipplem104 Turbo came in. BW s300sx fmw with a 61.4x83.4 compressor and if I remember correctly a 76mm turbine with a 1.00 a/r. twin scroll. Went through all of matchbot and seems like we should be able to get a decent spool out of this turbo and still have no problems with flow on the top end. If it is a little lazy we will just put some spray on to spool it up. Car might end up with spray on it anyways.What spray do you mean? Nitro?
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 10-16-2015
Thank you.
We are shooting for 600whp. and yes nitrous. Once the bugs are worked out it will be pushed as hard as it can go. Then a spare motor will be built to handle it. If it proves reliable at 600 then it will be left alone. Not going to rev above 6500 rpm and trying to keep it below 6k.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 12-11-2015
Valve springs are on the way finally should have them in soon. Test fit on a spare head and then in.
Finishing up the last details on the intake and exh and then off to get coated while I swap the engine and some details in the engine bay. Should not be to long before 1st start up. Hopefully right after Christmas.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-04-2016
Got the exhuast back from ceramic coat. The intake came back but has to be redone. Also heat shield in the engine bay after a good cleaning and brake caliper brackets back from design to adapt the 6 piston calipers. Also reworked the radiator mount into the intercooler. So the intercooler will have the lower supports built in and the stock cross member will be deleted. Valve springs had to be sent back and should be getting those back soon. They were grabbing the exhaust valve seal.
Soon this thing should be alive and then on to the drive shaft and rear end.
RE: W124 build - atypicalguy - 02-12-2016
So how is it going?
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-15-2016
We started it up Friday night. Have a few things to get done to get coolant in it and still waiting on the intake and some other parts to come back in. But it should not be to much longer to go for a test drive. I also ordered a D200 logger with boos control and the EGT module and probes.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-19-2016
Got it together and a short test drive. No alda yet and open boost ports in the manifold and no boost control. Do not even know what boost it hit. But it spools hard at 3k rpm. Once we have everything hooked up I think we can get it to spool a littler earlier. It runs out of fuel instantly though without the alda but it goes pretty well for a 1s or 2. But basics are done and it runs and drives. Been a long road.
RE: W124 build - Sultzi - 02-19-2016
Nice, very clean install!
ps. just realised who you are when I looked from facebook, we have been talking via email about pcs when i had it in my w123 ex daily!
-Antti
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-19-2016
Yeah, I loved that car. Especially the steel rims and hub caps. Still going to do that on mine some day.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-19-2016
Well hooked up alda and just running on the wastegate springs and it will hit 40psi of boost pretty quickly once it spools. I hit 35 psi multiple times before I lifted. So once the turbo spools it does not wait long.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-21-2016
We got some dry weather yesterday and I put some drag radials on to see what it will do. The boost feed to the alda kept coming loose. I had the wrong size hose on and could not get a clamp to fit. But got to play a little bit. Interestingly we can get 20 psi of boost with no alda. Fuel limited of course. With alda I was peddling to keep the boost low for now. The turbo really does not want to do anything below 3k. You can brake tq it to get it spooling below but it takes a few seconds. Above 3200 rpm it lights off pretty quickly. And will hit full boost in less than a few hundred rpm. So making full boost is going to be no problem. I am going to drop the wastegate springs down to get it in a safe boost level for now and start playing with fuel and timing and get the transmission tune redone for the extra power. Then to the dyno.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 02-23-2016
Got it set to 20psi of boost and pump still limited to settings from the build which I am told is 400hp. It makes more than that. It simply lights the drag radials off in 1st no matter what. 2nd gear pulls extremely hard. So very pleased at this point. Will get some logs at this power level and some video. Hopefully this week. Amazing power at this level so I cannot wait to see what it does when turned up. Given my experience in my w124 with a supercharger making in excess of 400whp/wtq. I would say this is making more at this point but it is hard to say due to the rear gears being different but it is not much off.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 03-03-2016
Got a nice package today. D200 logger with 3d boost control and EGT module with sensors for EGT per cylinder monitoring. And fuel supply pressure will be measured. And eventually exhaust back pressure and lambda.
All that is left is valve springs and exhaust and off to the dyno we go.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 03-11-2016
Getting the EGT module and boost control and D200 logger installed. Going to have a pretty clean setup overall. The climate control is going to be relocated to the center console box and hidden and then the D200 and a I pad and small deck will all be built into the console and flush. Should look really nice.
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 03-18-2016
Up and tuning the boost control. Here is a snapshot of boost control and EGT monitoring. Still dialing it in.
Valve spring sample came back in and looks like it is going to work out. Double spring with titanium retainers and 67 seat pressure and 177 at 10mm lift. They also have no bind in the head so the valve seals are the 1st interference. Should be able to get just shy of 13mm of lift. I would say 11.5 would still be safe. You could machine the valve guides and maybe drop the seal a bit.
RE: W124 build - atypicalguy - 03-22-2016
(03-18-2016, 11:25 AM)whipplem104 Up and tuning the boost control. Here is a snapshot of boost control and EGT monitoring. Still dialing it in.
Valve spring sample came back in and looks like it is going to work out. Double spring with titanium retainers and 67 seat pressure and 177 at 10mm lift. They also have no bind in the head so the valve seals are the 1st interference. Should be able to get just shy of 13mm of lift. I would say 11.5 would still be safe. You could machine the valve guides and maybe drop the seal a bit.
Great job on this build. I have been meaning to post but the server keeps kicking me out for some rrason.
How do those springs compare to the ones available from Norway? Is it Kiperformance? These seem pretty strong, but then 67lb doesn't sound like too much seat pressure if running 65 psi of boost. Sounds like you are going to custom cams, which is pretty cool.
The photo of the boost control did not come through for me. Can you please repost?
Did you do that little modification mentioned by dieselmeken to the head to route more coolant to the rear cylinders?
I would order one of those intercoolers if I knew a bit more about it re: bar and plate vs tube etc.
Can that d200 control multiple wastegates?
Thanks for posting and look forward to seeing what she can do on the dyno!
RE: W124 build - whipplem104 - 03-22-2016
I have troubles with this sight from home but not at work. Most of the time at home it will load once but I cannot post or get back in or see the pictures. Work always works and all the pictures load.
We are running twin wastegates with the D200 on this car. You could do a staged setup as well by using the other output.
Springs are from Ferrea. They are not the cheapest setup by far but we have all new retainers and keepers etc. We have not decided on the Cams yet. Going to start off with the stock turbo cams and then put in the N/A cams. and see what is next. Honestly I think that we are going to meet our goals with the stock cams. Just wanted room for more if necessary. Honestly with the low exh. back pressure I am not as concerned about the springs as I was at the beginning. We are running 10-11psi on the 7lbs springs and 20psi on the 15bls springs and 40 on the 27lb springs so we are running a very good pressure ratio. I do not think we will have to exceed 40 psi of boost but again we will see. I have to drop the volumetric efficiency down to around 65% to get the head flow down enough to need to go higher in the calculations but reality is reality.
Intercooler is working great. On the logs it pretty much runs static temperature of around 20F above ambient no matter how long we make a pull. Most boost we have run has been 25psi gauge so far. But we will see once the boost is turned up. You can look up the info on the core at Bell Intercoolers. It is one of their standard cores. It is 18x19x3.5.
We have not done anything for the cooling system. I have my own opinions about that and am not concerned about it with this build.
Hopefully if everything goes well we will know on Saturday.
RE: W124 build - atypicalguy - 03-24-2016
(03-22-2016, 11:16 AM)whipplem104 I have troubles with this sight from home but not at work. Most of the time at home it will load once but I cannot post or get back in or see the pictures. Work always works and all the pictures load.
We are running twin wastegates with the D200 on this car. You could do a staged setup as well by using the other output.
Springs are from Ferrea. They are not the cheapest setup by far but we have all new retainers and keepers etc. We have not decided on the Cams yet. Going to start off with the stock turbo cams and then put in the N/A cams. and see what is next. Honestly I think that we are going to meet our goals with the stock cams. Just wanted room for more if necessary. Honestly with the low exh. back pressure I am not as concerned about the springs as I was at the beginning. We are running 10-11psi on the 7lbs springs and 20psi on the 15bls springs and 40 on the 27lb springs so we are running a very good pressure ratio. I do not think we will have to exceed 40 psi of boost but again we will see. I have to drop the volumetric efficiency down to around 65% to get the head flow down enough to need to go higher in the calculations but reality is reality.
Intercooler is working great. On the logs it pretty much runs static temperature of around 20F above ambient no matter how long we make a pull. Most boost we have run has been 25psi gauge so far. But we will see once the boost is turned up. You can look up the info on the core at Bell Intercoolers. It is one of their standard cores. It is 18x19x3.5.
We have not done anything for the cooling system. I have my own opinions about that and am not concerned about it with this build.
Hopefully if everything goes well we will know on Saturday.
Thanks for all the information. I'm sure I will borrow a lot of your ideas. Particularly this d200 item, which seems very capable. I was leaning toward plx stuff before.
What amount of fuel are you planning to run with 40psi? Do you have a target air/fuel ratio, or are you just planning to tune for max power and some smoke?