+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: DSL1 controller (/showthread.php?tid=6975)
DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-11-2016
As some of you already know, in 2014 I designed the DSL1, a stand-alone ECU to control the EDC injection pumps found on OM605/OM606 turbo engines. I've been doing electronics design and microcontroller programming for the best part of two decades now, and have done a number of projects previously that had to do with motorsports both in control and instrumentation.
My initial goal was just to improve the performance of my Ssangyong Musso, replacing the mechanical pump with an electronic pump which had bigger pumping elements than the old mechanical pump, without sacrificing fuel economy. As a bonus I'd gain cruise control and the ability to fine tune the fuelling without getting my hands dirty.
Then what happened was I built a prototype but ended up selling the prototype to someone who was swapping an OM606 into a P38 Range Rover. I built another unit still intending to modify the OM662 in my own car but ended up selling that unit to another local who was swapping an OM606 into a Ssangyong Musso.
People on forums and Facebook have been in contact from time to time telling me they also wanted one of those controllers.
I finally went and did a production batch of the controllers, assembled by a pick-n-place robot instead of being hand soldered in my workshop. I have fitted the first unit to my own car and have been daily driving it for a month now.
There are some benefits of having a fully programmable controller versus chip tuning the factory fitted ECU. For one, every parameter can be tuned. This is also true to some extent about a factory ECU but no chip tuner outside the factory has full knowledge of every single parameter in the stock ECU and many of the parameters really cannot be tuned well unless real time data about engine operation is available. This freedom of calibration also means freedom of sensor choice as the control unit can be calibrated to work with any pressure sensor, throttle pedal sensor, engine speed sensor, etc. For another, no special tools are required for fault analysis, a regular laptop with a USB port and MS Windows on it is enough (Windows in a VM is fine too). Calibration can be changed and permanently stored as the engine is running and the calibration software displays real time feedback about what the engine is doing. I have also done some integration work allowing the controller to communicate via CAN bus with Ole Fejer's transmission controller, meaning the transmission controller can retrieve engine parameters from the DSL1, sharing existing sensors, as well as opening up the possibility of reducing engine power during shifts, improving transmission longetivity on cars with high power output.
I have now started taking orders for these controllers and opened a web store where I have listed this controller and will be adding more products both from my back-catalogue of old proven designs and new products as time permits. The URL is https://controls.is/shop/dsl1
RE: DSL1 controller - hooblah - 01-11-2016
That's brilliant news. I'll definitely be purchasing one. Will this controller do cruise control?
As a suggestion, another nice feature to add would be VNT control.
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-11-2016
Cruise control is in the current firmware version, but I haven't tested it yet. VNT control is there also.
RE: DSL1 controller - hooblah - 01-11-2016
Sweet
RE: DSL1 controller - zeeman - 01-11-2016
(01-11-2016, 12:39 PM)baldur As some of you already know, in 2014 I designed the DSL1, a stand-alone ECU to control the EDC injection pumps found on OM605/OM606 turbo engines. I've been doing electronics design and microcontroller programming for the best part of two decades now, and have done a number of projects previously that had to do with motorsports both in control and instrumentation.
My initial goal was just to improve the performance of my Ssangyong Musso, replacing the mechanical pump with an electronic pump which had bigger pumping elements than the old mechanical pump, without sacrificing fuel economy. As a bonus I'd gain cruise control and the ability to fine tune the fuelling without getting my hands dirty.
Then what happened was I built a prototype but ended up selling the prototype to someone who was swapping an OM606 into a P38 Range Rover. I built another unit still intending to modify the OM662 in my own car but ended up selling that unit to another local who was swapping an OM606 into a Ssangyong Musso.
People on forums and Facebook have been in contact from time to time telling me they also wanted one of those controllers.
I finally went and did a production batch of the controllers, assembled by a pick-n-place robot instead of being hand soldered in my workshop. I have fitted the first unit to my own car and have been daily driving it for a month now.
There are some benefits of having a fully programmable controller versus chip tuning the factory fitted ECU. For one, every parameter can be tuned. This is also true to some extent about a factory ECU but no chip tuner outside the factory has full knowledge of every single parameter in the stock ECU and many of the parameters really cannot be tuned well unless real time data about engine operation is available. This freedom of calibration also means freedom of sensor choice as the control unit can be calibrated to work with any pressure sensor, throttle pedal sensor, engine speed sensor, etc. For another, no special tools are required for fault analysis, a regular laptop with a USB port and MS Windows on it is enough (Windows in a VM is fine too). Calibration can be changed and permanently stored as the engine is running and the calibration software displays real time feedback about what the engine is doing. I have also done some integration work allowing the controller to communicate via CAN bus with Ole Fejer's transmission controller, meaning the transmission controller can retrieve engine parameters from the DSL1, sharing existing sensors, as well as opening up the possibility of reducing engine power during shifts, improving transmission longetivity on cars with high power output.
I have now started taking orders for these controllers and opened a web store where I have listed this controller and will be adding more products both from my back-catalogue of old proven designs and new products as time permits. The URL is https://controls.is/shop/dsl1
Will you be doing anything for the OM 648 engine as well. Is this a stand alone unit for non Mercedes conversions eliminating the anti theft issues.
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-11-2016
I have plans to venture into common rail diesel control. I have done some work in that area before and this EDC controller is based on some work I did in that area about a decade ago. I need to get myself a mule engine for development of common rail control.
RE: DSL1 controller - dude99 - 01-11-2016
Just out of curiosity would the controller work for a Bosch VE rotory pump that was used on the OM602.982?
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-11-2016
(01-11-2016, 03:26 PM)dude99 Just out of curiosity would the controller work for a Bosch VE rotory pump that was used on the OM602.982?
It'd require a slight modification to do so. The metering would work with no modification but some adaptation is required to control the timing of the VE pump. I just need to get my hands on an electronic VE pump to be able to make some measurements and implement the timing control.
RE: DSL1 controller - dude99 - 01-11-2016
Very cool, in a few years when my w210 rusts out I plan on taking the engine and tranny with me to a w124 wagon... This will make that swap so much easier!
RE: DSL1 controller - AlanMcR - 01-11-2016
Will this play well with the factory 722.6 transmission controller? Instrument cluster?
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-11-2016
Factory trans controller, probably not, although I do have CAN bus on there so if I had information about the CAN IDs the transmission controller is monitoring I could make it work. Same goes for the instrument cluster, I can make it work but I need some info. Capturing the CAN bus data would probably be most useful.
RE: DSL1 controller - mcwfxx - 01-11-2016
Nice one!
How about traction control of any kind? What would be needed for a cruise control setup theoretically?
CDI sounds exciting. I wanted a CDI ecu to run a generator made from a smart 3 cylinder CDI. Would just need fixed RPM regardless of load. The market is pretty limited and nothing is really affordable from what I can see wheb i did a bit of research. Whilst I love the om606 and other IDI merc engines, I think there will be a huge market for using CDI engines for performance in a way that we can make happen standalone. And unlike petrols CDI is complex stuff it seems - so something affordable and usable from a person with some knowledge and not a huge wallet for software or a degree in software development would be ace!!
Brilliant stuff.
RE: DSL1 controller - JSJFIN - 01-12-2016
Looks nice! Is it possible to run 6000 or even 7000rpm with this controller?
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-12-2016
(01-12-2016, 05:06 AM)JSJFIN Looks nice! Is it possible to run 6000 or even 7000rpm with this controller?
You can set the rev limit anywhere between zero and 65000 RPM.
RE: DSL1 controller - minim - 01-12-2016
I got a 7.5mm pump from a 603 on my 606 machine now. Is it worth the upgrade? Would be nice to not have it smoking while getting turbo pressure but is it noticeable better? I guess it can be closer to "smoke limit" on the whole register also before/after/under boost since alda control will be more dynamic but how much of this do you notice?
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-12-2016
(01-11-2016, 07:51 PM)mcwfxx Nice one!
How about traction control of any kind? What would be needed for a cruise control setup theoretically?
Cruise control setup requires a road speed signal wired into the ECU, this can be had from a number of sources depending on the car, but generally you'd get it either from the transmission or the ABS system. A manual trans car can do without the road speed signal. From there it's just a matter of wiring in three switch signals, set/resume buttons on the dash or steering wheel and a stop signal from the brake pedal and clutch pedal if using a manual trans.
Traction control is do-able, I've done it before on my petrol engine controllers. It requires two wheel speed inputs, from the front and the rear to be able to calculate the slip and reduce engine power as slip increases.
RE: DSL1 controller - Duncansport - 01-12-2016
Nice work Baldur.
Looks and sounds like a quality product, best of luck with it!
RE: DSL1 controller - THE DIGGER - 01-12-2016
great to finally see and affordable solution for a edc pump.
RE: DSL1 controller - dude99 - 01-12-2016
Quote:Will this play well with the factory 722.6 transmission controller?I don't believe the 722.6 is CAN. There is an aftermarket 722.6 controller though as seen here http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=3701
I think the 722.9 is a CAN transmission.
I could be wrong about all of that though...
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-12-2016
(01-12-2016, 12:04 PM)dude99Quote:Will this play well with the factory 722.6 transmission controller?I don't believe the 722.6 is CAN. There is an aftermarket 722.6 controller though as seen here http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=3701
I think the 722.9 is a CAN transmission.
I could be wrong about all of that though...
Correct, but the factory 722.6 TCU communicates with the factory EDC ECU via CAN bus, even though the transmission itself is a passive unit.
The 722.9 transmission is not too different in principle except it has the TCU is built into the transmission so there are few external electrical connections other than power and CAN bus, and it's not straight forward to fit an aftermarket TCU.
RE: DSL1 controller - seanyt - 01-12-2016
Great news baldur i know plenty of people are looking for these,
Congratulations of being to first to introduce a production solution to the edc pumps.
The price is very reasonable and looks like it has some great controls on there that im sure over time youll compound on.
RE: DSL1 controller - dude99 - 01-12-2016
Quote:Correct, but the factory 722.6 TCU communicates with the factory EDC ECU via CAN bus, even though the transmission itself is a passive unit.
The 722.9 transmission is not too different in principle except it has the TCU is built into the transmission so there are few external electrical connections other than power and CAN bus, and it's not straight forward to fit an aftermarket TCU.
Interesting, thanks for the info
RE: DSL1 controller - mcwfxx - 01-12-2016
This is brilliant. So am i right in thinking dieselmeken can make a 500bhp capable pump with 8mm elements the same as the mechanical? and it could be the same power, can fine tune it, and the cruise control part...hmm!. It's the possibility of cruise control that really excites me at the moment! :-) i don't really know why ...
I'm going to leave the pump until last and see if i can afford this option :-) It's probably worth saving up a bit longer!!
RE: DSL1 controller - hooblah - 01-12-2016
Will this help with the rough idle with 8mm elements?
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-12-2016
(01-12-2016, 06:05 PM)hooblah Will this help with the rough idle with 8mm elements?
Yes, as you can tune the idle control parameters as well as the transfer function of the elements.
RE: DSL1 controller - Hario' - 01-12-2016
(01-12-2016, 02:51 PM)mcwfxx This is brilliant. So am i right in thinking dieselmeken can make a 500bhp capable pump with 8mm elements the same as the mechanical? and it could be the same power, can fine tune it, and the cruise control part...hmm!. It's the possibility of cruise control that really excites me at the moment! :-) i don't really know why ...
I'm going to leave the pump until last and see if i can afford this option :-) It's probably worth saving up a bit longer!!
An element fit and balance is cheaper with an edc pump as there is no governor to modify, so an 8mm edc and baldur controller is not far off an 8mm mechanical pump..
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-12-2016
(01-12-2016, 02:51 PM)mcwfxx This is brilliant. So am i right in thinking dieselmeken can make a 500bhp capable pump with 8mm elements the same as the mechanical? and it could be the same power, can fine tune it, and the cruise control part...hmm!. It's the possibility of cruise control that really excites me at the moment! :-) i don't really know why ...
I'm going to leave the pump until last and see if i can afford this option :-) It's probably worth saving up a bit longer!!
Yes, that should absolutely be possible. I'm told that the usable rack travel is not as much on the EDC pump as it is on the mechanical pump but I believe this to be a non-issue as this controller can make use of the full travel allowed by the pump. No artificial limits to where the rack position must be at idle, etc. This means that the tricks involved in setting up a super pump for use with the stock ECU are not required here, and not limiting us in any way.
RE: DSL1 controller - raysorenson - 01-13-2016
How about jerking? The mechanical pumps can be difficult to drive with a manual trans. Does the EDC pump eliminate the jerking.
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-13-2016
(01-13-2016, 10:28 AM)raysorenson How about jerking? The mechanical pumps can be difficult to drive with a manual trans. Does the EDC pump eliminate the jerking.
Yes once you get the control loops well tuned it drives very smooth.
RE: DSL1 controller - Hario' - 01-13-2016
(01-13-2016, 11:29 AM)baldur(01-13-2016, 10:28 AM)raysorenson How about jerking? The mechanical pumps can be difficult to drive with a manual trans. Does the EDC pump eliminate the jerking.
Yes once you get the control loops well tuned it drives very smooth.
Baldur,
A few Q's please:
I can give this TPS, RPM & boost and it just wants 12V live to work?
It doesn't need coolant temp or anything if I don't want it to? So coolant will stay connected to the vehicle ECU for glow etc off the original key switch.
Or will coolant temp data help with cold idle tuning etc? I guess its not hard to add temp sensor to be fair..
My Ole controller wants TPS also, you have any idea how to avoid using 2 OEM Mercedes TPS' in parallel for the DSL1 & Ole 722?
Cheers.
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-13-2016
(01-13-2016, 11:41 AM)Hario A few Q's please:
I can give this TPS, RPM & boost and it just wants 12V live to work?
It doesn't need coolant temp or anything if I don't want it to? So coolant will stay connected to the vehicle ECU for glow etc off the original key switch.
Or will coolant temp data help with cold idle tuning etc? I guess its not hard to add temp sensor to be fair..
My Ole controller wants TPS also, you have any idea how to avoid using 2 OEM Mercedes TPS' in parallel for the DSL1 & Ole 722?
Cheers.
Correct. TPS, RPM and boost is all the sensors required.
Currently, coolant temperature is only required if you need glow or fan control. This may change in a future revision, I may add some temperature based parameters to the idle control for a faster cold idle. My car currently does not have a coolant temperature sensor.
For the Ole controller, I have collaborated with Ole to implement a CAN bus connection between the controllers. This means that the trans controller can receive rack position, TPS and engine RPM via CAN bus from my controller, this is necessary for the cruise control to work with the trans control as when the cruise is active you can have high engine load but 0% TPS. CAN bus requires no external components, it's just a matter of two wires going between the controllers.
RE: DSL1 controller - hooblah - 01-13-2016
This sounds better and better every time.
If you change the features will it be software or hardware? Don't want to have to buy twice if it means waiting a little while for a revised version.
RE: DSL1 controller - 50harleyrider - 01-13-2016
Awesome Baldur. I have purchased a Dieselmeken 7.5 mm 603 M superpump with the need for 300 HP. I plan to use an HX35W turbo with 10cm turbine housing. My question to you is can I use my stock OM606.962 E pump and planned turbo to attain near 300HP with your controller and stock 6 mm elements or will I need to get larger elements into it first? I hoped using your controller and no need for ecu for mapping and chip tuning,it can be done. I really want to use Oles' TCU also.
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-13-2016
(01-13-2016, 12:28 PM)hooblah This sounds better and better every time.
If you change the features will it be software or hardware? Don't want to have to buy twice if it means waiting a little while for a revised version.
The hardware design is stable. I will continue to develop the software but it's unlikely the hardware will see a major revision.
(01-13-2016, 12:30 PM)50harleyrider Awesome Baldur. I have purchased a Dieselmeken 7.5 mm 603 M superpump with the need for 300 HP. I plan to use an HX35W turbo with 10cm turbine housing. My question to you is can I use my stock OM606.962 E pump and same turbo to attain near 300HP with your controller and stock 6 mm elements or will I need to get larger elements into it first? I really want to use Oles' TCU also.
Yes the stock 606.962 E pump will support around 300 horsepower with a HX35, but you can get more power and more torque with bigger elements.
RE: DSL1 controller - starynovy - 01-13-2016
If not secret, what processor do you use?
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-13-2016
(01-13-2016, 01:11 PM)starynovy If not secret, what processor do you use?
NXP LPC2387, a 72MHz ARM7TDMI processor. It's running my own real-time multitasking scheduler.
RE: DSL1 controller - mcwfxx - 01-13-2016
anyone know what the costs are for 8mm elements in a 606 electronic pump?
This is really sounding better and better.
Baldur, Do you have any documentation written, or any complete list of features planned and current etc please?
Many thanks
Sam
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-13-2016
Documentation and feature list https://controls.is/dsl1.html
RE: DSL1 controller - starynovy - 01-13-2016
Wow thats some more computing power than original ECU with two 8051 derivates had.
RE: DSL1 controller - 50harleyrider - 01-14-2016
Do you provide any harness for hardwires to your ecu such as plugs for connections A and B? I have a complete 1999 W210 donor car which can be scavenged before the F150 transplant. Also is there a default program for an OM606.962 included so I can plug and play? Or maybe a 300 HP program for my needs stated in my first post which you can provide as a starting point for additional cost? I'm no programming genius so I need a starting point. Maybe if we have minimal programming abilities (I'm definitely not Jeff Robertson of Rocketchips) we should avoid this and stick with M pump? I really want to use this as I plan to use smaller compound VNT's in the future.
RE: DSL1 controller - CRD4x4 - 01-14-2016
(01-14-2016, 08:19 AM)50harleyrider I'm no programming genius so I need a starting point. Maybe if we have minimal programming abilities (I'm definitely not Jeff Robertson of Rocketchips) we should avoid this and stick with M pump?
50harleyrider, does this Jeff fella have a good reputation? He happens to be only a few miles from me and has already done an eco tune on my wife's TDI commuter.
I've been considering having my Jeep chipped by him. Can you vouch for him?
Baldur, I have a friend (and fellow STD member) that'll be near you the 2nd week of February. You think I could have him pick up a 606a controller in person? Hopefully you'll also help me talk him out of driving the ring road in February in a rental Jeep with his wife. That's gonna be brutal!
PM me price please.
RE: DSL1 controller - 50harleyrider - 01-14-2016
Jeff is a good guy and has done several TDI tunes for me. Can't vouch for his non TDI tuning-sorry.The tdi tuners stateside have little MB chip tuning experience and given the architecture of the OE OM606 ecu, there's little they could do with them anyhow. That's why Baldur's ecu is so exciting.
RE: DSL1 controller - baldur - 01-14-2016
(01-14-2016, 08:19 AM)50harleyrider Do you provide any harness for hardwires to your ecu such as plugs for connections A and B? I have a complete 1999 W210 donor car which can be scavenged before the F150 transplant. Also is there a default program for an OM606.962 included so I can plug and play? Or maybe a 300 HP program for my needs stated in my first post which you can provide as a starting point for additional cost? I'm no programming genius so I need a starting point. Maybe if we have minimal programming abilities (I'm definitely not Jeff Robertson of Rocketchips) we should avoid this and stick with M pump? I really want to use this as I plan to use smaller compound VNT's in the future.
I ship the ECU with mating plugs and and crimp contacts. They are also shipped with a default program for an OM606, but as there are some slight differences between pumps some fine tuning of the control parameters are necessary.
There really aren't a lot of parameters that the average user needs to adjust, and I am willing to assist people via Teamviewer if they have trouble getting things running well.
(01-14-2016, 09:19 AM)CRD4x4 Baldur, I have a friend (and fellow STD member) that'll be near you the 2nd week of February. You think I could have him pick up a 606a controller in person? Hopefully you'll also help me talk him out of driving the ring road in February in a rental Jeep with his wife. That's gonna be brutal!
PM me price please.
That'd be no problem. My workshop is right by the road that leads to the international airport.
RE: DSL1 controller - mcwfxx - 01-14-2016
Thanks to Baldur, who has been most helpful in answering my many questions, I have now place an order, so I look forward to receiving it :-)
Now to plumb the engine in, ready!... weather is awful here in northern England at the moment. No warm workshop either!
RE: DSL1 controller - Hario' - 01-18-2016
(01-14-2016, 06:55 PM)mcwfxx Thanks to Baldur, who has been most helpful in answering my many questions, I have now place an order, so I look forward to receiving it :-)
Now to plumb the engine in, ready!... weather is awful here in northern England at the moment. No warm workshop either!
Weather is awful here in southern England also.
RE: DSL1 controller - mcwfxx - 01-22-2016
(01-18-2016, 08:31 AM)Hario(01-14-2016, 06:55 PM)mcwfxx Thanks to Baldur, who has been most helpful in answering my many questions, I have now place an order, so I look forward to receiving it :-)
Now to plumb the engine in, ready!... weather is awful here in northern England at the moment. No warm workshop either!
Weather is awful here in southern England also.
Well She's arrived! Will be a week or two before I get the wiring sorted and able to try starting the engine. Got to fit oil cooler yet.
*excited*
RE: DSL1 controller - pryantcc - 01-28-2016
Wow Baldur! This is amazing work, what an interesting project!
RE: DSL1 controller - jav1 - 01-28-2016
I've been emailing with Baldur and I will be ordering one of these controllers shortly myself. Looks great and the more I learn, the more impressed I am. Thanks for doing this and keep posting!
RE: DSL1 controller - maxypriest - 01-31-2016
Can you run the edc pump without the stop valve on the side with this unit?
RE: DSL1 controller - Hario' - 02-01-2016
(01-31-2016, 06:24 PM)maxypriest Can you run the edc pump without the stop valve on the side with this unit?
The stop solenoid just needs 12v switched live to open.