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+--- Thread: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D (/showthread.php?tid=858)
New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 11-18-2009
Here is a little taste of what I am up to now...
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - willbhere4u - 11-18-2009
supercharger?
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - Rudolf_Diesel - 11-18-2009
I'm not tellin'...yet
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - ForcedInduction - 11-19-2009
Must be a pulley driving the a new fuel lift pump to feed your engine's thirst for POWER!
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - Rudolf_Diesel - 11-30-2009
Here are a few more pics...
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - willbhere4u - 11-30-2009
Is it an under drive lightened pulley?
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - Rudolf_Diesel - 11-30-2009
(11-30-2009, 09:08 PM)willbhere4u Is it an under drive lightened pulley?
It the basis for a serpentine belt drive system, that will pave the way for something really cool....EM9D
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - E300TSC - 11-30-2009
Oh, you are so totally a copy cat!
![[Image: IMG_4146.jpg]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/kartek/Mercedes/IMG_4146.jpg)
Just kidding of course...
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - lars - 12-01-2009
[quote='E300TSC' pid='8390' dateline='1259635986']
Oh, you are so totally a copy cat!
Heeey mr. tsc. Do you have a link so I can see and read about your superch/turbo concept??
I will at least follow this thread
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - willbhere4u - 12-01-2009
I just put one of those on my g/friends Miata Jackson racing mp45
RE: New Project - Top Secret (Skunkwerks) - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-02-2009
More progress pics - trying to lose weight on this assembly, right now I am 2 lbs. heavier than stock, I am working on it though, every ounce counts!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-14-2009
Couple of more pics on progress...
I went to a machine shop and had a chat with the guys there (they also race alcohol funny cars) and they felt the pulley was as light as it could be and no further machining needed.
I had a local welder TIG weld it for me, $75.00, it was worth it. My hands are not as steady as I would like for TIG.
Prepping case for modification to outlet
Closer view
In process of machining
Inlet before
Inlet after
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 12-14-2009
very cool!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-16-2009
Does anyone in Southern California have an extra long block I could borrow for mock up, does not have to be in running condition. I could trade some fabrication work for your troubles.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-20-2009
Here are some more pics of progress.
Original Ford power steering pump pulley hub bored out and Mercedes pulley hub machined to fit, pressed and welded.
Another view of pulley
Pulley installed on pump
Another view
additional view
Power steering pump bracket from V-8
Another view of V-8 bracket with mounting plate
pics of GT35 turbo
A/A IC that will be added to design (in addition to A/W IC)
Throttle body from BMW - it will serve as bypass valve for turbo.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Kiwibacon - 12-20-2009
Is that a garrett turbo?
It looks like a T3/T4 clone, quite different to the garrett GT35 series.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-20-2009
It is not a Garret, I don't want to spend the money on one. It is supposed to be a GT35 with a T3 inlet. The reason I bought it was because the waste gate and exhaust matched my old one. The place I bought it from had it custom made.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Kiwibacon - 12-20-2009
(12-20-2009, 07:53 PM)Rudolf_Diesel It is not a Garret, I don't want to spend the money on one. It is supposed to be a GT35 with a T3 inlet. The reason I bought it was because the waste gate and exhaust matche dmy old one. The place I bought it from had it custom made.
That's where I get really confused. The GT35 is a garrett turbo family, but these other companies use the same name for T3/T4 based turbos which are no relation.
Are they trading on confusion to increase sales?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-21-2009
I understand GT is a Garret trademark - you use a cotton swab, ubiquitously known as a Q-tip no matter who made it; A facial tissue, Kleenex, etc.
As long as the dimensions remain the same then it should function the same. If it doesn't work as the numbers say it should then my bad. I didn't buy it under the guise it was a Garret or even a perfect clone of one. It simply fit the need I have without completely reengineering the current design.
If I had the money, I would buy a Garret, but budget doesn't allow. As far as waiting until I have the funds, not what I want to do. I don't see anything wrong with using a clone, if you don't want to use one, that is your option.
As far as I can see the clones are made just as well as the real thing, fit and finish is spot on. They are made with state of the art equipment, not in some hut.
This thread is for progress on the current project, no offense, but I never intended for input as to how to build it. There are is more than one way to skin a cat.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 12-21-2009
(12-21-2009, 11:30 AM)Rudolf_Diesel This thread is for progress on the current project, no offense, but I never intended for input as to how to build it. There are is more than one way to skin a cat.
I'm definitely not a fan of Chinese turbo clones, but keep up the good work.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 12-21-2009
whats you plan on fueling with all of this air???
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - GREASY_BEAST - 12-21-2009
(12-21-2009, 02:23 PM)willbhere4u whats you plan on fueling with all of this air???
That's been my question too for as long as I've been watching this.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Kiwibacon - 12-21-2009
(12-21-2009, 11:30 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I understand GT is a Garret trademark - you use a cotton swab, ubiquitously known as a Q-tip no matter who made it; A facial tissue, Kleenex, etc.
As long as the dimensions remain the same then it should function the same. If it doesn't work as the numbers say it should then my bad. I didn't buy it under the guise it was a Garret or even a perfect clone of one. It simply fit the need I have without completely reengineering the current design.
That was why I asked. The turbo you show has no parts in common with a garrett GT35. The new turbos are built like a T25/T28, very different to the T3 style used by the aftermarket.
But back to the build, what's the fuel target and what is the boost target? How do you plan to control the boost?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-21-2009
As far as fuel, Tomnik is going to handle that. I will be getting some 7.5 elements from him and have his bud install them for me. The M90 will handle boost until 10 psi, then the bypass for turbo will open and it will boost up to 20 psi.
Boost on S/C will be bypass valve - Boost on turbo via waste gate.
I just got back from Bakersfield - 250 mile round trip and picked up an engine from Delivery valve - very nice guy.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 12-21-2009
I would just route the turbo in to the supercharger and let it rip!!!! lol compound 50psi all the way
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - kamel - 12-22-2009
This is exciting as hell! However, I would have welded it for $50. haha
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - GREASY_BEAST - 12-22-2009
(12-21-2009, 09:48 PM)Rudolf_Diesel As far as fuel, Tomnik is going to handle that. I will be getting some 7.5 elements from him and have his bud install them for me. The M90 will handle boost until 10 psi, then the bypass for turbo will open and it will boost up to 20 psi.
Boost on S/C will be bypass valve - Boost on turbo via waste gate.
Cool, sounds like the way to go! Can't wait to see it!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - HoleshotHolset - 12-22-2009
(12-21-2009, 12:47 PM)ForcedInduction I'm definitely not a fan of Chinese turbo clones, but keep up the good work.
Me neither - but I've never heard from anyone that they grenade any easier than a higher dollar turbo.
Awesome machining skills, BTW. I love stuff like this - a LOT.
Beers,
Matt
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-23-2009
Quote:Awesome machining skills, BTW.
Thanks
Here are a couple of pics of belt system:
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 12-23-2009
Very nice!
That water pump is a little bit overdriven isn't it? Even the updated smaller pulley is only 0.9:1.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-23-2009
(12-23-2009, 09:30 AM)ForcedInduction Very nice!
That water pump is a little bit overdriven isn't it? Even the updated smaller pulley is only 0.9:1.
It is only 15% overdriven according to my calculations, but I could be wrong. I was wrong once, but I was mistaken
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DeliveryValve - 12-23-2009
I like it. Beautiful job so far!
Looks like the vacuum pump indeed is getting in the way. Are you going to remove it?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - HoleshotHolset - 12-23-2009
(11-18-2009, 09:31 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Here is a little taste of what I am up to now...
I forgot to ask:
What kind of material is that stuff?
Looks like terra cotta.
Beers,
Matt
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-23-2009
(12-23-2009, 02:44 PM)HoleshotHolset(11-18-2009, 09:31 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Here is a little taste of what I am up to now...
I forgot to ask:
What kind of material is that stuff?
Looks like terra cotta.
Beers,
Matt
It's a machinable plastic, almost like precast bondo. It used to make sample tooling as well plug assist tooling (used to help push material into mold). You can also use it as a pattern when you want to have something cast.
It is very easy to work with, if you make a mistake just super glue a piece on and start over.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - HoleshotHolset - 12-23-2009
OK - that makes more sense than terra cotta.
What is the trade name for that stuff (so that I may Google up some info on it...)?
Beers,
Matt
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 12-23-2009
looking good take some video of it runing
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-30-2009
I have been making some progress, but a few revisions as I go along.
After measuring, it turns out the power steering pump is too big. I decided to use one with a remote reservoir from a Ford Taurus. It has a 6-rib pulley, but I found a brand new 8-rib and slightly larger for $18.00 - brand new (Ford trucks, vans and Navigators use an 8-rib).
I have been working on the power steering pump bracket and belt configuration this past week. My goal is to have at least a 33% belt wrap on the pulleys. I have looked at a few in the wrecking yards and some only seem to have 20-25% on the power steering - I think I will be fine. I am still fine tuning the placement of the tensioner and idler pulleys.
I use a cardboard for a rough template and once I have the hole locations I use a CAD system to draw the brackets and tweak for form and function. I can cut them out myself with the plasma cutter, but I am getting a price for a local steel supply to cut them for me. All I have to do is give them a .dxf file.
The next step is to work on the supports for the tail end of the SC, once I have this complete I will work on the SC plumbing...
Some progress pics:
.
(12-23-2009, 03:56 PM)HoleshotHolset OK - that makes more sense than terra cotta.
What is the trade name for that stuff (so that I may Google up some info on it...)?
Beers,
Matt
I am still trying to find out the trade name, but if you search for machinable resin or plug assist material on google you can get in the ball park.
I am also going to use a radiator from a Yamaha YZ450 dirt bike for the A/W IC. It is a little smaller than my current one, but I it has a fan and and it should be fine. This will provide room for the A/A IC that will mount behind the bumper.
Part of the deal for letting me borrow the motor is to fab an intake for Deliveryvalve and I am giving him my old radiator.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - oel_brenner - 12-31-2009
I count 4 (maybe 5) tensioners... wow
that belt must be 30 ft long.
looks really cool though!
keep it up !
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-31-2009
(12-31-2009, 10:37 AM)oel_brenner I count 4 (maybe 5) tensioners... wow
that belt must be 30 ft long.
looks really cool though!
keep it up !
I was inspired by this:
It actually has 3 idlers and one tensioner on the top near the center line of the engine (it looks like two idlers)
The belt is 90" long - it is the OEM belt for a 1993 Ford Thunderbird S/C. All donor parts thus far are from Ford (a little biased)That will make it easy to find replacement parts as time goes on.
I also decided to s-can the OEM style A/C compressor and go with one from a T-bird S/C. That will entail custom hoses but The Hose Man should be able to help me out and also with the power steering lines as well.
I will be very close to the body on the power steering pulley, I may have to do some surgery and give myself some clearance if it is too tight.
I am considering using a different oil cooler so I can have some clearance for the intake tubing from IC to SC. This will also require using a smaller condenser, but I have a buddy that does A/C work and he can hook me up with all the goodies I need.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - bmwpowere36m3 - 12-31-2009
^^^ Nice, I'd love a BMW S52 w/ an EuroSport Twin Screw. That setup just has one additional idler and the TS pulley of course.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - HoleshotHolset - 12-31-2009
(12-30-2009, 10:37 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am still trying to find out the trade name, but if you search for machinable resin or plug assist material on google you can get in the ball park.
OK - thanks for the info. I found some info on a material called Eccolite Ultra - which sounds kinda like what you're using there.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 12-31-2009
superchargers all the way I love the sound of a twin screw I'v got an Eaton mp45 with by pass valve on my 94 miata
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Kozuka - 01-04-2010
So something like this minus the DrosselKlappe (I assume throttle body)
![[Image: golfgt4.jpg]](http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d15/naryanc45/golfgt4.jpg)
stolen from vw vortex
Or maybe not a compound setup even though it has a bypass I don't know what the benefits would be. I assume the compound at the low end would kick in the turbo ealier as well as providing some good low end boost while not delievering overheated air at higher pressures.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 01-04-2010
It can work either way; super-turbo, turbo-super.
Though with the supercharger first, it can actually be a restriction as the turbo spools up. They only pump a fixed volume of air per rotation and as the turbo increases air consumption the turbo can pull a vacuum if the bypass opening timing isn't right. Open too soon and the turbo takes longer to light up, too late and the engine chokes.
With the supercharger after the turbo, bypass timing isn't as critical. It will just work as a really inefficient compound system (depending on the supercharger's set pressure ratio). Open too soon and the same as above, too late and you get a lot of hot boost.
Either way, its a hell of a lot better than either one alone.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Kozuka - 01-04-2010
(01-04-2010, 09:14 PM)ForcedInduction It can work either way; super-turbo, turbo-super.
Though with the supercharger first, it can actually be a restriction as the turbo spools up. They only pump a fixed volume of air per rotation and as the turbo increases air consumption the turbo can pull a vacuum if the bypass opening timing isn't right. Open too soon and the turbo takes longer to light up, too late and the engine chokes.
With the supercharger after the turbo, bypass timing isn't as critical. It will just work as a really inefficient compound system (depending on the supercharger's set pressure ratio). Open too soon and the same as above, too late and you get a lot of hot boost.
Either way, its a hell of a lot better than either one alone.
Couldn't you also run them into a y pipe into an intercooler and have an electromagnetic clutch release the supercharger at whatever specified psi or not at all also?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 01-04-2010
No. The supercharger will be driven backwards by the air pressure.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 01-04-2010
I saw the VW system, but I don't know if it is feasable to run a clutch on this S/C. It is a work in progress and may change as it progresses. It may never be a drag car, although I would like a set of gears to pull off the line though, but it will be cool as hell. I can't wait to lift the hood when I go to another Benz get together. The purists just shook their heads that last time when I had the A/W IC.
I am basically going to copy the green wagen. It will have a 80mm (guessing) throttle body that will open and essentially bypass the supercharger and have the turbo feed the engine directly.
I wanted to use the OEM bypass on the S/C to open at a set pressure, but due to a clearance issue I will incorporate (Forced, look away) a bypass valve / BOV that will open and dump the output from S/C to input of S/C.
I have pretty much dialed in the bracketry and waiting on a quote from the metal supplier to plasma cut the brackets. I can do it myself, but it is just easier to farm this portion out. By the time I buy the material and cut and grind it will be done for a few bucks more and ready to weld.
I guess I should finish my DIY torchmate kit that I reverse engineered
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 01-05-2010
(01-04-2010, 11:42 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am basically going to copy the green wagen.
Just try to avoid its convoluted tube layout.
There are so many points the wagon's system could have been simplified/improved....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 01-06-2010
(01-05-2010, 12:19 AM)ForcedInduction(01-04-2010, 11:42 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am basically going to copy the green wagen.
Just try to avoid its convoluted tube layout.
There are so many points the wagon's system could have been simplified/improved....
How would you pipe it? I am still tossing a few ideas around...Keep it Simple, but cool.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 01-06-2010
(01-06-2010, 10:08 AM)Rudolf_Diesel How would you pipe it? I am still tossing a few ideas around...Keep it Simple, but cool.
Here is now they had it set up.
For some reason, they decided to have the smaller diameter bypass tube run across the top of the intercooler. I marked it to show a much more simple path, an 8" long bypass with the butterfly in the middle.
That would reduce plumbing, allow the turbo to blow through a larger diameter tube and allow either the intercooler to be moved up higher (and have less air blocked by the bumper) or an even bigger intercooler to be used.