1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project

1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - Printable Version

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RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - meareweird - 09-09-2010

Sweet! The twincharging madness is being realized!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 10-18-2010

Here's the latest:

Doing the mock-up's for the supercharger outlet in cardboard and transferring them to aluminum:

[Image: P9250105.jpg]

Parts cut and shaped, ready for welding:

[Image: PA170124.jpg]

How it will look when complete:

[Image: PA170127.jpg]

And, an inside view:

[Image: PA170126.jpg]

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - HoleshotHolset - 10-22-2010

Nice work so far - I'm looking forward to seeing the evolution of this project. BTW: That was me commenting on YouTube. Smile

Beers,

Matt / HoleshotHolset / CumminsISBe

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 11-21-2010

Well, it's been a month since my last update. I've been going round and round in my head re-designing the exhaust manifold. I think I have the final bugs worked out now and I can go ahead and order the parts.

Here's the project "to do" list: (Boring but it's necessary)

X - Buy stainless fittings for exhaust manifold
O - Buy aluminum tubing for intake
O - Cut and fab exhaust manifold
O - Take exhaust manifold to shop for welding
O - Fab and move engine mount
O - Fit turbo to engine
O - Design turbo feed to SC
O - Fab bypass valves and turbo feed
O - Finish SC pulley mount and powder coat
O - Sandblast and paint SC
O - Fab cover for SC
O - Arrange to have pump fitted with new elements
O - Do electronic mods
O - Take intake parts to shop for welding
O - Fab exhaust system
O - Take turbo and exhaust manifold to be HPC coated
O - Fab gauge mount and install gauges

There's a lot more but that's all I can think of right this second. I'm committed to getting all this done by March 31st 2011! Feel free to harass me and keep me motivated!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - Rudolf_Diesel - 11-21-2010

How far are you going to go into the SC? I just replaced the needle bearings on the tail end, I have part #s if you want them. I also replaced the coupling - big difference in noise! I ended up scuffing and painting it, I didn't want to subject to the abrasives and heat of the powder coating process - just my two cents.

Looks good so far, keep up the good work!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - Mylesofsmyles - 11-21-2010

whoa, this thread is inspirational! put this powerplant and the zf6 in a w123 estate and you've created my dream!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 11-21-2010

(11-21-2010, 06:59 PM)Rudolf_Diesel How far are you going to go into the SC? I just replaced the needle bearings on the tail end, I have part #s if you want them. I also replaced the coupling - big difference in noise! I ended up scuffing and painting it, I didn't want to subject to the abrasives and heat of the powder coating process - just my two cents.

Looks good so far, keep up the good work!

Sorry, it's supposed to be PAINT the SC. I had originally wanted to PC it but most of the coatings are not rated for the projected temperatures in the induction system so I've decided to just stick with paint.

The SC is in excellent shape. Seems like it was a rebuild before I bought it - tight and smooth.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 11-27-2010

I need a source for the gasket that goes between the "governor" cover and the main housing on the injection pump. The Russian site doesn't even show a part number for it.

Anyone? Bueller?

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - gsxr - 11-27-2010

(11-27-2010, 08:44 PM)E300TSC I need a source for the gasket that goes between the "governor" cover and the main housing on the injection pump. The Russian site doesn't even show a part number for it.

What pump are we talking about here? OM603.96x or OM606.96x?

Assuming it's the 606.962, I believe you want p/n 005-997-23-40, which shows up under the 606.912 engine or (European) 605.962, but they should use the same formed O-ring seal. Do a reverse lookup in the EPC and see if it's the one you want. It shows as callout #35 in the EPC for the 606.962 but no part number is displayed... one of the oddities in the EPC, I've seen this type of thing before, think there was a similar issue with DV seals or something like that.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 11-27-2010

Thanks, that's the one. I don't know why I couldn't find it before...

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 11-28-2010

Worked on the gauge mounting today:

Template:

[Image: IMG_4892.jpg]

Test fitting the completed assembly in the ash tray.

[Image: IMG_4895.jpg]

Easy bake!

[Image: IMG_4900.jpg]

Complete!

Now you see it...

[Image: IMG_4909.jpg]

Now you don't!

[Image: IMG_4911.jpg]

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - willbhere4u - 11-28-2010

Dam that's cool!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - jeemu - 11-29-2010

That is wery nice Cool

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - winmutt - 11-29-2010

Sweet man. I need to get me some easy bake Big Grin

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - jeemu - 11-29-2010

What paint you used?

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - willbhere4u - 11-29-2010

I want a real easy bake oven in my car! um fresh cookies!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 11-29-2010

(11-29-2010, 02:40 PM)jeemu What paint you used?

Thanks, Jeemu. The coating I used is powder from Eastwood.

This, I think:

http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-satin-black.html

I would have to check the part number to be sure.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - ben2go - 12-01-2010

Would the super charger with turbo set up work on a 617?I have a good Eaton off a 3.8L Ford V6.I don't wanna push the 617 to close to it's limit and blow it up.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - willbhere4u - 12-02-2010

check this out http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/new-project-skunkwerks-em9d-t-858.html

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 03-03-2011

Well, it's time to pull this back from page 6... Smile

Tomorrow I have a date with the pump man to discuss the project in detail. I have a parts pump (thanks Dave) Smile

and I'll be taking that in for him to have a look at.

Here's a list of the scope of the work I expect him to do. Any comments welcome.

Quote:

3/2/2011
Scope:
Install of customer supplied items:
New 7.5mm pump elements.
New Viton™ O-rings.
New side, bottom and back cover gaskets.
New shaft seal.
Modified advance device.
Adjustments:
Balance element output at idle and 80% rack travel. Customer will provide 80% rack position stop. (Open for discussion)
Set element to 9.5cc/1000 at idle rack position. Customer will provide idle rack stop.
Balance port closure to specs using existing cam rollers plus a combination of customer supplied spares and new parts if available.
Final assembly:
Torque all bolts to Bosch factory specs.
Torque DV holders in 3 steps according to Bosch factory specs with new customer supplied crush washers.
Note:
Lift pump will be eliminated and replaced with an electric pump so no lift pump maintenance is required.

It's starting to move along a little now and I'm excited to be making some progress!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - winmutt - 03-04-2011

IIRC there was a change in the procedure for the DV holders, make sure you/he are/is using the new process.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 03-04-2011

Had a great meeting with Kevin at Chason Diesel this morning. He's a 25 year veteran pump man and he has no concerns whatsoever about installing the elements and setting up the pump.

I'm going to set up a date to do the work in a couple weeks.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - Biohazard - 03-05-2011

Thats great! Keep us updated on this for sure!!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - winmutt - 03-07-2011

(03-04-2011, 10:17 PM)E300TSC Had a great meeting with Kevin at Chason Diesel this morning. He's a 25 year veteran pump man and he has no concerns whatsoever about installing the elements and setting up the pump.

I'm going to set up a date to do the work in a couple weeks.

$$$?

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 03-20-2011

Here's where I'm at now. I've been taking classes to be certified on various machine tools. I can do a few things with my own shop tools but this project is requiring more heavy duty machining.

I have both of the exhaust manifold flanges nearly done. (front 3 and back 3) The only things yet to do are to mill the groove for the piping to fit and be welded into. I also pulled the injection pump today and I'll be stripping it this week in preparation for the new element install this Thursday and Friday.

As of now, I don't know the final cost on the pump work but based on my conversations with the manager, it's not going to be a lot of money since he won't have to try and balance a mechanical mechanism to fit the new elements. Basically, he's installing the elements, balancing the output and port closure.

I'll post more updates as things happen.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 03-23-2011

Here's an easy question: What timing mark do I set the engine at before re-installing the pump. I believe when the mark is at TDC, the pump tab was aligned with the slot in the pump tool.

Also, the timing index mark appears to be a metal tab with a hole in it. Do I set the timing by aligning the timing number in the hole or what?

Thanks for the help!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - gsxr - 03-23-2011

14° ATDC, set with the mark at the edge of the tab - ignore the hole. You need the lock tool for the IP to install it, otherwise it will not remain in position.

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/605_606/07.1-8410.pdf

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - tomnik - 03-23-2011

(03-23-2011, 09:59 AM)E300TSC Here's an easy question: What timing mark do I set the engine at before re-installing the pump. I believe when the mark is at TDC, the pump tab was aligned with the slot in the pump tool.

Also, the timing index mark appears to be a metal tab with a hole in it. Do I set the timing by aligning the timing number in the hole or what?

Thanks for the help!

you can choose the position of the tap or better this has to be set by the shop that does the element swap. You should tell the guy to check begin of delivery and compare it with the IP cam position.
On the mechanical pumps (60x engines) the tap is on the fly weights. The fly weight assembly is on the conical end of the cam. Held in position with the locking device and tightened at a certain plunger lift.
Don't ask why I know this in detail...
A good shop will tell you at what crank position the locking device has to go in. Original is 15deg ATDC crank position.

Tom

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - anjay - 03-23-2011

I know it is of topic but I located IP from 606 and need to make decision fast. Question: is the IP from 95' 606 engine going to work on 603. I am aware that max rpm is lower etc. Just wondering if someone done it.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - ForcedInduction - 03-23-2011

(03-23-2011, 05:01 PM)anjay Question: is the IP from 95' 606 engine going to work on 603.

Yes, but there is no benefit because they are identical. You'll actually lose power since the 606 is only 120hp while a 603a is 148hp.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - gsxr - 03-23-2011

Almost identical but not quite. The 606 is a non-turbo and has an ADA, while the 603 is a turbo and has an ALDA (for North American models, anyway). The 606 pump would need to be recalibrated to deliver more fuel on a turbo 603 if you want the full power delivery. Unless of course you are located in Europe and are referring to a non-turbo 603 engine...

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - anjay - 03-23-2011

Thanks guys! It is US model turbo. I was all exited because Ip has 6mm elements in it.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - gsxr - 03-23-2011

Only the 606.962 engine found in 98-99 E300 Turbos will have 6mm elements.

The 606.91x non-turbo engine IP's have 5.5mm elements.

Exclamation

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - bmartins - 04-03-2011

Hello.
congratulations....
I would love to try your car....brutal!!!!!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 05-07-2011

Hi, small update:

My re-located right side engine mount:

[Image: P4120172.jpg]

This will provide the needed room to mount the turbo.

I also changed all of the valve cover seals and painted the valve cover a pleasing shade of red... Smile

The 7.5mm elements are installed in the pump and I'm going to try and start the car tomorrow afternoon.

Wish me luck!

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - led-panzer - 05-07-2011

Ooooh pretty. Are you keeping the stock exhaust manifold?
Great project Smile

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - erling66 - 05-08-2011

Did you install the elements yourself? I noticed from another tread that you had such plans.
Great project, you are an inspiration Smile

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - mantahead - 05-08-2011

hi, if its any help to you
After i fitted my 7.5mm elements i put the pump on to engine without any adjustments to the elements and run the engine. Then i did my test and cylinders 4 and 2 where putting out twice as much fuel as the rest at idle.
I used a measuring tube and by running my 5 cylinder engine on 4 cylinders for exactly 60 seconds with one injector pipe spraying diesel into the tube i was able to measure quantities. Then i reconnected that injector pipe and let the engine clear itself back on all cylinders before going to the next pipe. This bit is important because you will get different results if you dont let the engine get back on all cylinders before going to the next pipe.
You will need an assistant and a stop watch to get this right. Start the engine and time from when it fires and then at 60 seconds switch it off and measure. Reconnect pipe and start engine and let it clear. Then repeat for every cylinder. Adjust elements on the rack to suit and you will have a sweet running engine. You can do a crack test on the injector lines before and after adjustments and you will see the difference. You could spend a few hours at this to get it perfect.
My engine was my test bench which allowed me to set the pump up for the situation its going to be in on the engine with different bends in the lines etc.

wayne

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - HoleshotHolset - 05-09-2011

(03-03-2011, 09:43 PM)E300TSC Note:
Lift pump will be eliminated and replaced with an electric pump so no lift

Based on that sentence - I have a few questions:
What kind of electric pump do you plan on running?

How do you intend on bypassing the OEM lift pump bolted to the injection pump? Block off plate? Custom fuel lines? Are you also eliminating the fuel heater/thermostat?

What kind of pressure do these electronically controlled inline pumps like? I'm used to the inline P7100's on the Cummins B5.9's and they like (depending on who you ask...) at least 25-35 psi at idle...and never less than that when under load or at higher RPM.

Beers,

Matt

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 05-10-2011

Answers to your questions:

No, I'm not keeping the stock manifold, I'm designing and fabricating a custom piece.

Yes, I installed the elements myself. It's actually not that hard but it was very time consuming because I had to invent the special tools I needed to accomplish the task without damaging anything.

Wayne, that's great info. Thanks!

Matt, I'm probably going to use a Powerstroke stock fuel pump. They're pretty cheap ($65) and should be able to supply enough fuel to support the my 400HP goal. I'm going to regulate the pressure to around 25 PSI as you say. I'll develop an adjustable regulator so I can optimize the pressure. No sense pushing more than it needs... Smile

For now, I'm keeping the fuel system intact and I'll be making small mods as I go along. Eventually, I would use a blocking plate for the old fuel pump hole.

So, an update:

Last night I got it started for the first time. It settled into a fairly normal idle with an even clatter with no smoke. However, it's VERY slow to rev. I checked the timing and found that I had improperly set the initial number and it had somehow slipped to 24* ATDC. I think it was the slop in the cam chain and I had not fully advanced the engine to the proper position since the crank shaft had slipped when I was removing the pump and I had to reset it.

I also have fuel leaking badly from the injection lines at the pump. It always seems like a pain to get them to stop leaking. Maybe I have to "square up" the lines in the holders before tightening them.

One other thing: DON'T RUN/CRANK YOUR ENGINE WITH THE VACUUM PUMP OFF! Found out the hard way that it dumps oil out of the lubrication port... Sad

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - HoleshotHolset - 05-10-2011

(05-10-2011, 05:18 AM)E300TSC Matt, I'm probably going to use a Powerstroke stock fuel pump. They're pretty cheap ($65) and should be able to supply enough fuel to support the my 400HP goal.

OK - sounds like a winner so far.
If you are going to leave the OEM pump in place, where in the system do you intend on splicing in the PS pump? The reason I ask is that some pumps don't take well to having fuel forced through them.

I'm glad to hear you got 'er running - and especially glad that it settled into a good idle. That's an encouraging sign that the OEM electronics can handle larger elements! Nice work!

Beers,

Matt

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - tomnik - 05-10-2011

(05-10-2011, 05:18 AM)E300TSC One other thing: DON'T RUN/CRANK YOUR ENGINE WITH THE VACUUM PUMP OFF! Found out the hard way that it dumps oil out of the lubrication port...

why didn't you ask, I could have told you since I played with pump and timing device. But it was my friend who watched deep into the chain drive when I started the car Angel

How long did it take that you got my elements to run?
I hardly remember that you were the first guy in the US I sent elements.
Great job so far but wait until she breathes with all the "respiratory equipment" you installed..

Tom

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 05-10-2011

Matt, I will not leave the stock pump in place. I plan on crossing over the fuel lines to bypass it. In theory, the best place to put the electric pump is in the back, between the fuel tank outlet and the line leading forward to the engine.

Tom, the engine started instantly as soon as the air was purged. It sounded totally normal at idle. The only strange thing is that when I revved the engine, it would start making a "rump" "rump" sound as the ECU was hunting for a normal speed. I feel that this is because the rack is now too close to the closed position and the ECU can't modulate it properly to maintain a proper idle speed.

Otherwise, the only thing I did was swap elements - no other adjustments besides using the heavier DV springs you sent with the 7mm elements.

I wanted to see how bad it would run without adjustment and it ran quite well! Big Grin

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - winmutt - 05-10-2011

Way cool, Im sure you can hear me clapping all the way down here.

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - mike-81-240d - 05-11-2011

Now hire yourself out to us...

Wink

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - HoleshotHolset - 05-11-2011

(05-10-2011, 07:44 PM)E300TSC Matt, I will not leave the stock pump in place. I plan on crossing over the fuel lines to bypass it. In theory, the best place to put the electric pump is in the back, between the fuel tank outlet and the line leading forward to the engine.

OK - that's what I was thinking you'd do.

When you rev'd up the engine, did it sound like this? I've always thought that it was the governor bouncing a bit until it stabilized at higher RPM that caused this to occur on a lot of heavily modified pulling engines. With an electronic governor, the same sort of thing could be happening...

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - ben2go - 05-11-2011

(05-11-2011, 01:15 AM)mike-81-240d Now WHORE yourself out to us...

I fixed that statement. Big Grin

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - tomnik - 05-11-2011

details about the Powerstroke fuel pump?
12V, Amps?
What kind of pump is it: gear type?
Overflow valve, adjustable pressure?
Flow?
65$ new?

Tom

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - mantahead - 05-11-2011

Tom, the engine started instantly as soon as the air was purged. It sounded totally normal at idle. The only strange thing is that when I revved the engine, it would start making a "rump" "rump" sound as the ECU was hunting for a normal speed. I feel that this is because the rack is now too close to the closed position and the ECU can't modulate it properly to maintain a proper idle speed.

Otherwise, the only thing I did was swap elements - no other adjustments besides using the heavier DV springs you sent with the 7mm elements.

I wanted to see how bad it would run without adjustment and it ran quite well! Big Grin

[/quote]

hi, have you modified the rack in any way? Maybe your timing is still out? I have no trouble with ecu now and made 266hp at 4300rpm, now i have 5500rpm and my clutch is gone so i don't know what power i have now that i have more rpm.

wayne

RE: 1998 E300 W210 Superturbo Project - E300TSC - 05-11-2011

Oh yes, the timing is still 10 deg too far retarded. Now another problem, I stripped the hex head out of the bottom bolt that holds the vacuum pump on.

I will now have to devise a way to get it out so I can get the pump back off to reset the timing... Sad

(05-11-2011, 09:43 AM)HoleshotHolset
(05-10-2011, 07:44 PM)E300TSC Matt, I will not leave the stock pump in place. I plan on crossing over the fuel lines to bypass it. In theory, the best place to put the electric pump is in the back, between the fuel tank outlet and the line leading forward to the engine.

OK - that's what I was thinking you'd do.

When you rev'd up the engine, did it sound like this? I've always thought that it was the governor bouncing a bit until it stabilized at higher RPM that caused this to occur on a lot of heavily modified pulling engines. With an electronic governor, the same sort of thing could be happening...

No, it revved normally, it just sounded stifled and then surged at idle.