Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build

Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Printable Version

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RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 10-03-2011

(10-03-2011, 03:21 PM)dropnosky This weekend removed subframe, engine and tranny from recently sourced parts van.

...

...

Now that is useful when giving these things a tuneup! I hate changing the air cleaning and plugs on these year vans.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-05-2011

(10-03-2011, 07:14 PM)DeliveryValve Now that is useful when giving these things a tuneup! I hate changing the air cleaning and plugs on these year vans.

If only you didn't have to disconnect so much crap to raise the body off. Would be great if the heater core, the A/C, and especially the steering column had quick disconnects. Wiring is pretty good, two big plugs and its done, and a few other little things.
Im not looking forward to trying to get that steering disconnected on the recipient van, ended up having to cut it on the parts van, sucker was not coming off.

Some more progress, stripped the subframe to get a good idea of how bad the rust is-

[Image: subframestripped.jpg]

Couple bad places in addition to the front mount points. This is the worst, the rear connection for the driver side lower control arm is just rotted out, ready to fold-

[Image: subframerust2.jpg]

Driver side spring seat area- (not actually especially vital right here, but still a problem-

[Image: subframerust3.jpg]

Problem in front of the power steering gearbox also-

[Image: subframerust1.jpg]

So overall, the subframe needs to be rebuilt, especially the driver side, which is about 3 times as bad as the passenger side. Ive dropped the whole thing off at a local rust repair place, who will be rebuilding the bad passenger lower control arm support, patching and reinforcing the holes, and then rust proofing the interior parts and undercoating the outside.

Some exciting news is how Chevy set up the motor mounts, super super easy to remove, three bolts each with excellent access top and bottom. I don't have to weld anything to the subframe, I just have to build a new motor mount support bracket the bolts into the oem holes, which should be pretty nice once its done.

This subframe repair should be done in a few weeks, as well as the transmission, so I can start assembly

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 10-05-2011

(10-05-2011, 04:37 PM)dropnosky .......

So overall, the subframe needs to be rebuilt, especially the driver side, which is about 3 times as bad as the passenger side. Ive dropped the whole thing off at a local rust repair place, who will be rebuilding the bad passenger lower control arm support, patching and reinforcing the holes, and then rust proofing the interior parts and undercoating the outside.
...

I hate Northern Rust! There are so many of these rust free subframes in my local yards. I wonder if it would cost the same if you had one of these Cali yards ship you one.

Or I can box one up for you..... Just joking. Tongue

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-05-2011

(10-05-2011, 06:43 PM)DeliveryValve Or I can box one up for you..... Just joking.

lol, you don't want and try and break your record? I estimate a box for one of these subframes would be at least 80-100 lbs, and 5 feet by 6 feet by 2 feet.

Its not overly heavy, but its certainly awkward. After the double front fender box, should be childs play since its only one unit Big Grin

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 10-06-2011

what kind of turbo will you be using on the 240D engine and how will you prevent it the turbo from ruining the engine? willbhere4u told me 10psi is the safest maximum load that wont cause damage to the engine, will you be doing the same?

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 10-06-2011

(10-05-2011, 07:33 PM)dropnosky ..
lol, you don't want and try and break your record? I estimate a box for one of these subframes would be at least 80-100 lbs, and 5 feet by 6 feet by 2 feet.

Its not overly heavy, but its certainly awkward. After the double front fender box, should be childs play since its only one unit

Actually, it would be best to bubble and shrink wrap it and have no box. Then it shipped out that way. I know Greyhound would take bubble wrap parts. Not sure if they would take a 5x6x2 part though.. Huh

.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-06-2011

(10-06-2011, 10:40 AM)Purplecomputer what kind of turbo will you be using on the 240D engine and how will you prevent it the turbo from ruining the engine? willbhere4u told me 10psi is the safest maximum load that wont cause damage to the engine, will you be doing the same?

ill be using a stock 300D turbo, which should put about 8-10 psi max hopefully. I saw that consistently in my older 300D
Ill have some time to tinker with it though, since it won't be in the van for a couple years or so. Maybe I can find something even lower psi that would work, but the custom manifolds will allow me to put any 300D turbo on the engine as if it would be stock.

Im thinking I need to be careful about this though with an EGT gauge, once this engine is in the van, the frame allows me to tow up to a 12x6 double axle trailer, which I have done many times. A low PSI turbo might not hurt the 240 engine just moving a car, but towing a load might/will seriously impact the EGTs with a negative result, whereas just the NA 240 engine would still get the job done without the risk.

we will see, since I started this thread, to give you an idea of the load ive been putting on this van, I managed to completely overheat my stock transmission on the van towing, blowing out the front and rear seals and forcing me to change fluids and filters, and put in new seals.

(10-06-2011, 10:48 AM)DeliveryValve Actually, it would be best to bubble and shrink wrap it and have no box. Then it shipped out that way. I know Greyhound would take bubble wrap parts. Not sure if they would take a 5x6x2 part though...

Lol, I was just joking, don't even consider it! You would have to completely break down the subframe to make it realistically quasi-mobile, removing all steering and suspension as well as the motor and ect ect. Unless you happened to find one standing against a van, no way it would be worth it, and even then, probably not

yard would probably charge me 1000 bucks in labor just to strip it down. Guy here is thinking about 400 bucks to fix it and paint it.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 10-06-2011

(10-06-2011, 10:54 AM)dropnosky ...
Lol, I was just joking, don't even consider it! You would have to completely break down the subframe to make it realistically quasi-mobile, removing all steering and suspension as well as the motor and ect ect. Unless you happened to find one standing against a van, no way it would be worth it, and even then, probably not

yard would probably charge me 1000 bucks in labor just to strip it down. Guy here is thinking about 400 bucks to fix it and paint it.

LOL x2, I was not even considering it as I know what it would take to break it down.... I was just say'in. But if I happen to find one standing against a van................... Big Grin

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 10-06-2011

I am actually taking your idea of the custom manifolds and doing the same thing to my 240D. I am actually pretty eager to see you put the turbo on and give us some results on performance and any issues you may have. for me i have to wait until i replace the shocks

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-06-2011

(10-06-2011, 05:46 PM)Purplecomputer I am actually taking your idea of the custom manifolds and doing the same thing to my 240D. I am actually pretty eager to see you put the turbo on and give us some results on performance and any issues you may have. for me i have to wait until i replace the shocks

be a while before I actually have it running if you are waiting for performance info. Can't put it in the van till I pass the EPA restriction. 2013

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - yankneck696 - 10-06-2011

I had an IHI turbo off of a ford probe on mt 240 engine & it worked pretty nice. It was in a Sammy with 6WD. Never had a boost gague or EGT, but it's still running at the salvage yard I worked at 6 years ago. I had Cush (our guyannan mechanic) twist screws in the pump & it sure made a difference. It also was on WVO & gasoline blend (Floriduh weather).

Ed

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-25-2011

exciting developments-

1- Transmission is FINALLY ready. Big Grin

So it turned out that the 1990 AstroRS T5 that I originally sourced is a single year variant of that gearbox. We were striking out finding any T5 that would accept the shifter, tailcone, and bell housing from the wrecked astro trans. It had to be a T5 from exactly the same year, and from a limited number of vehicles, IE, some of the S-10s, and some of the camaros, but not all.
However, in a stroke of luck, the trans shop guy eventually managed to find a T5 gearbox out of a 90 S-10 that worked for the right price! So now I have a complete rebuilt gearbox for this project.

Everything works, it even has the right splines so I can order a clutch kit for a 1990 astroRS. (which ive done, should be in end of the week)

[Image: astrot5.jpg]

2- Subframe rust repair is complete, and the whole thing has been undercoated. I may try and spray some rustcheck or some such up in the internal areas of the frame, but its ready for the engine and trans to be test fitted. Once I get the clutch, I can start trying to put this together.

[Image: subframerepaired.jpg]

Next big hurdle is finding replacement clutch hydraulic parts. Every auto parts store ive called cannot find a slave or master cylinder for a 90 RS van, ill be going to the dealer to figure this out. Im sure it cross references with something else. I HAVE been able to find rebuild kits though, so I might have to go that route. I have a bad set, so they can probably get me some matching part numbers hopefully.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 10-25-2011

The progress is looking good so far. Are you going to be using the gasser engine on this until you wait for it to become of age so you can use the 616?

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-25-2011

(10-25-2011, 10:38 AM)Purplecomputer The progress is looking good so far. Are you going to be using the gasser engine on this until you wait for it to become of age so you can use the 616?

Yeah, the van is currently in service daily with the stock 180K 4.3 V6 and an auto trans. Smokes a bit on start up, but its been an utterly reliable engine so far.

Honestly, I won't say ive been looking for a crooked inspection place, but I will say ive been keeping my eye open for an inspection facility that practices a "liberal interpretation" of state law. At 1989, the van is an old vehicle, i may be able to just swap everything, and still pass an inspection at just the right place. We will see depending on how hard it is to find other necessary parts.

oh, also some info-

The 1989 Short body cargo converted van im using weighs 3980 lbs.

The 123 240D weighs (I think) approx 3700 lbs.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - 300D50 - 10-25-2011

rockauto.com lists a slave for a 90 astro witht eh V6 as being $15.31, part # S0401
master is part #M0401 $27.79

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-25-2011

(10-25-2011, 03:26 PM)300D50 rockauto.com lists a slave for a 90 astro witht eh V6 as being $15.31, part # S0401
master is part #M0401 $27.79

thanks!

those look correct, ive ordered up a pair

EDIT- I don't know why I waste my time calling the dealership, got off the phone earlier with no information, and no apparent inclination to help cross reference from the parts guys. And here comes Walt swooping in with 5 minutes of internet research. Big Grin

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - 300D50 - 10-25-2011

Those were the middle-of-the-road priced ones, they had Sachs for more and Kelsey-Hayes for less.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-28-2011

Heres another bunch of pics

The clutch showed up, so I got to put the engine and gearbox together using the 4x4 lab kit, and boy, Im definitely of the opinion that that kit was worth it. Just went together so nice, and finish quality is great.

Heres the flywheel bolted up, I was mistaken, i did not need to block it off the crank shaft, the tolerances are about 2mm behind the flywheel

[Image: flywheel1.jpg]

The new clutch I got was effectively the same as the one I purchased way back for a K-1500 except for the splines and a different pilot bearing. heres a pic of the MB to Chevy pilot bearing adapter from 4x4 labs. I ended up using the actual bearing that came in the 1500 kit, and not the bushing that came in the new kit.

[Image: pilotbearings.jpg]

Bearing adapter goes through the new flywheel into the crank, and seats nicely with the new pilot bearing in. I really was pleased with how they rigged this up

[Image: pilotbearingbushinginstalled.jpg]

[Image: pilotbearingbushinginstalled.jpg]

Clutch installed, shift fork and release bearing installed- (i need the GM boot for the shift fork, and I might need to weld slave cylinder seating point for the shift fork, its slightly cracked)

[Image: astrot5releasefork.jpg]

Bolted up the gearbox, and here are a few pics of the 616 and the T5 next to the stock Astro 4.3 and auto-

[Image: 616vs431.jpg]

Here is the new motor laying in the subframe. I used the rear transmission mount point to locate where it should be, and there is good news and maybe possible bad news.
Good news is that the engine won't interfere with the steering apparatus as I was expecting, and there should be more than enough room up front for choosing a radiator.
Bad news it that its awful high, and might hit the top of the hatch. I might get real lucky though, I measured the 4.3 and the 616 and with the air cleaner on the 4.3, they are close in height, plus a little working room. Just have to see how it fits when the time comes and make adjustments then.
Also, draining the oil might be a pain, maybe ill change the drain location on the pan to the front Big Grin

Time to build motor mounts, passenger side should be a straight shot, drive side will have to come forward a bit. On the fence about using stock GM or MB mounts, any thoughts? The GM mounts are WAY easier to change. Also, should I rig up a bracket to include the engine shock?

pass side-

[Image: passmount.jpg]

driver side-

[Image: drivermount.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 10-28-2011

Look'n good! Love it!

Couple of notes.

1) How are you going to do a routine valve adjustment?

2) I'd use the stock Chevy mounts.

3) What is the clutch size of the new flywheel assembly. The stock w123 size for a 616/617 is 215mm and the M110 is 228mm with the 300GD also 228mm.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-28-2011

(10-28-2011, 09:01 PM)DeliveryValve Look'n good! Love it!

Couple of notes.

1) How are you going to do a routine valve adjustment?

2) I'd use the stock Chevy mounts.

3) What is the clutch size of the new flywheel assembly. The stock w123 size for a 616/617 is 215mm and the M110 is 228mm with the 300GD also 228mm.

Im hoping that ill actually have about the same amount of room that the 4.3 currently enjoys. I know what you are saying though, I may have a problem getting that valve cover off. Ill do some experiments to see just how much room I need to move it. Worst case scenario i can always block the subframe up a tad and give the van a lift. Big Grin

Its using an 11 inch GM clutch, so approx 280mm. The flywheel also has the option of using a 10 inch though

(10-28-2011, 09:01 PM)DeliveryValve 1) How are you going to do a routine valve adjustment?

wow, Im glad you brought that up as I sit here and contemplate. I really need to determine absolute height in the engine bay so I can be sure to get the valve cover off before I make any motor mounts. If I need to modify the subframe in order to drop the engine, now is definitely the time to do it.

EDIT- I need at least 5-6 inches above to get that cover off. The 4.3 has about 2 inches of room. Looks like im modifying the subframe. THANK YOU deliveryvalve, I would not have been happy to realize this later on when I tried to do a valve adjustment

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 10-29-2011

Your welcome! I just know how much a pain in the arse that engine bay is to work in!

Lowering the engine more is probably the best way to deal with that. Another would be to make a custom valve cover in which the upper portion can slide to towards the rear right off. (Calling Walt!) But I still wonder how much room you'll have to put the wrench in if you don't drop the engine more.

Modifying the subframe to lower the engine will definitely cause the oil pan to hit the steering linkages if your going to keep the engine at the same location. Perhaps you can drop the linkages down? Possibly have the steering box go lower and have the two idler arms mount lower also? Or if you can't lower the box, then make a custom bent connecting rod between the box and the relay arm working in conjunction with the lowered idler arms.

And if you can't get the steering to work out, then maybe an entirely different suspension is needed.... Like a custom Mustang II supension with "rear" steering rack and pinion or a Plymouth Volare suspension type subframe swap. I don't know, just throwing stuff out there.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-29-2011

all good ideas!

here are some pics of the stock steering bars-
If I cut into the subframe to lower the engine, I will definitely hit the steering as you say, if I go too far down

[Image: steeringvan.jpg]

Still might be possible. Also if I dare to cut the subframe, I will possibly be playing a dangerous game with the lower control arm mounting point structural integrity.
You can see in this pic those holes in the subframe on either side of the motor? the lower control arm front pivot slides inside the subframe there and in sandwiched.

Since the engine is way over on the passenger side (still needs to be levelled) any cuts would be awfully close to exactly where that critical junction is

[Image: enginefront.jpg]

Maybe I should go 300D50's route and modify the stock oil pickup so I can have a shallower pan. I would have a lot less potential issues if I could rig up a way to have that valve cover open like a clamshell as two pieces off to the side. maybe thats possible.

This is the engine compartment from underneath. Looking at this, it might not be totally out of line to consider expanding the hatch directly above by adding a removable piece of firewall instead of messing with the subframe or engine

[Image: astroenginebay.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - willbhere4u - 10-29-2011

can you modify the firewall and move the whole thing back 6" and drop it down a bit

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-31-2011

(10-29-2011, 11:09 AM)willbhere4u can you modify the firewall and move the whole thing back 6" and drop it down a bit

I was thinking that too, but that would move the shifter to the rear of the driver seat, im trying to see if I can keep the trans in approximately the same place as it would be stock.

I think im gonna cut the subframe! Big Grin

There is a lot of room down there, I think i can move the steering bars down or forward. One of the things I love about this van is the excellent turning radius, I have to avoid changing that geometry too much

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - willbhere4u - 10-31-2011

Shelby Cobra shifter!

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - yankneck696 - 10-31-2011

What about using a rack & pinion steering setup ? I searched & found http://www.astrosafarivans.com/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1190

Ed

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 10-31-2011

(10-31-2011, 03:15 PM)yankneck696 What about using a rack & pinion steering setup ? I searched & found http://www.astrosafarivans.com/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1190

Ed

thats an interesting read that would be a good solution. thanks for the link!

Ill get the cut made, and the engine in position, and see what I might have to do

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 11-01-2011

(10-31-2011, 03:32 PM)dropnosky
(10-31-2011, 03:15 PM)yankneck696 What about using a rack & pinion steering setup ? I searched & found http://www.astrosafarivans.com/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1190

Ed

thats an interesting read that would be a good solution. thanks for the link!

Ill get the cut made, and the engine in position, and see what I might have to do

Although I think having a rack is a great idea, it looks like it would be positioned too low that it might scrape on a bump.

I still think having the rack behind the crossmember (rear steer) would be the best solution, too bad I can't think of any steering knuckles that you can use for that rear setup. Maybe you can flip sides? I doubt it though.

.

A lot more clearance with the stock linkage setup.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 11-02-2011

committed now. Big Grin

its off being welded again, the cardboard in the background will be a steel reinforcement that will go on the back side of the cross member.

[Image: subframecut.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - yankneck696 - 11-02-2011

Rear side steering would require alot of fabricating to get the Ackerman angle right.

Ed

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - ben2go - 11-02-2011

I wouldn't screw with the steering.Those angles are a bitch to get corrected.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 11-09-2011

lol, well the guy went a little nuts with my statement "make it strong" Big Grin

I had almost 3/4 of an inch gap on all sides, he threw so much steel on there that its awful close on the passenger side. however, he did an impressive job making it about as indestructible as you can get.

heres from above-

[Image: subframecut3.jpg]

couple other pics-

[Image: subframecut2.jpg]

heres with the engine. Think it will sit a bit higher to clear the passenger side. actually not touching in the pic, but its definitely gonna be close unless I raise it a bit-

[Image: dieselsubframecut2.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 11-09-2011

woah, progress is coming along quickly! Keep posting those pictures Big Grin

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Captain America - 11-14-2011

Not the skidplate! haha

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - OM616 - 12-30-2011

(10-28-2011, 08:41 PM)dropnosky Time to build motor mounts, passenger side should be a straight shot, drive side will have to come forward a bit. On the fence about using stock GM or MB mounts, any thoughts? The GM mounts are WAY easier to change. Also, should I rig up a bracket to include the engine shock?

I modified the stock arms and mount of my turbo 616 / W201, so I could bolt straight through from the top. It is tuff to see in the pic, but if you look close, you can see the bolt at the end of the arm.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 02-13-2012

Talk to me about that oil filter!

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 06-15-2012

im very very seriously considering sidetracking this motor into my volvo wagon, and going 5cyl in this van next year instead.

The wagon is also an 89, but inspected with a 2014 sticker end date, so would be past 25 years by the time it comes back around to be done, so I could start swapping whenever I want.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 06-15-2012

(06-15-2012, 10:06 AM)JB3 im very very seriously considering sidetracking this motor into my volvo wagon, and going 5cyl in this van next year instead.

The wagon is also an 89, but inspected with a 2014 sticker end date, so would be past 25 years by the time it comes back around to be done, so I could start swapping whenever I want.

if you like giving up and being a quitter Dodgy

JK! swapping a turbo 616 into anything is cool !

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 06-15-2012

(06-15-2012, 10:34 AM)Purplecomputer
(06-15-2012, 10:06 AM)JB3 im very very seriously considering sidetracking this motor into my volvo wagon, and going 5cyl in this van next year instead.

The wagon is also an 89, but inspected with a 2014 sticker end date, so would be past 25 years by the time it comes back around to be done, so I could start swapping whenever I want.

if you like giving up and being a quitter

JK! swapping a turbo 616 into anything is cool !

here are my thoughts- Big Grin

EGTs.

Its all about EGTs, and what those will do to this 616. Not only am is waiting forever getting to be a real bother, but ive become increasingly concerned about EGT issues with the 616 motor putting it in this van as I really look at how I use it.

Here are some pics that demonstrate what I do with this van all the time-

pulling a taurus-

[Image: 2012-01-09130243.jpg]

pulling another van-

[Image: 013.jpg]

pulling various VWs-

[Image: 0032-1.jpg]

On top of that, I dont have pics but this van has towed my 115, my GFs 123, my friends Jeep, ect.
This is just private use, not counting the 30-40 times Ive rented double axle trailers from uhaul ect for job sites out in the hilly boonies. I use the shit out of this thing.

So basically, when I really consider what I do with this van, the question is am I being foolhardy thinking that putting a 616 in it with a turbo conversion where EGTs are a concern, and where most of my activities are guaranteed to drive up EGTs. Will the engine last a week? and why wouldn't I just put in a turbo 5cyl 617 for twice the HP, designed for the turbo, and use the same adapter?

These are the questions running through my mind. At the same time, my volvo wagon is both lighter than the 123 chassis, and never destined to tow, so it might be a better platform.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 06-15-2012

(06-15-2012, 02:12 PM)JB3
(06-15-2012, 10:34 AM)Purplecomputer
(06-15-2012, 10:06 AM)JB3 im very very seriously considering sidetracking this motor into my volvo wagon, and going 5cyl in this van next year instead.

The wagon is also an 89, but inspected with a 2014 sticker end date, so would be past 25 years by the time it comes back around to be done, so I could start swapping whenever I want.

if you like giving up and being a quitter

JK! swapping a turbo 616 into anything is cool !

here are my thoughts-

EGTs.

Its all about EGTs, and what those will do to this 616. Not only am is waiting forever getting to be a real bother, but ive become increasingly concerned about EGT issues with the 616 motor putting it in this van as I really look at how I use it.

Here are some pics that demonstrate what I do with this van all the time-

pulling a taurus-

pulling another van-

pulling various VWs-

On top of that, I dont have pics but this van has towed my 115, my GFs 123, my friends Jeep, ect.
This is just private use, not counting the 30-40 times Ive rented double axle trailers from uhaul ect for job sites out in the hilly boonies. I use the shit out of this thing.

So basically, when I really consider what I do with this van, the question is am I being foolhardy thinking that putting a 616 in it with a turbo conversion where EGTs are a concern, and where most of my activities are guaranteed to drive up EGTs. Will the engine last a week? and why wouldn't I just put in a turbo 5cyl 617 for twice the HP, designed for the turbo, and use the same adapter?

These are the questions running through my mind. At the same time, my volvo wagon is both lighter than the 123 chassis, and never destined to tow, so it might be a better platform.

It would have been a cool project but I did always wonder if the turbo 616 would live long if you used it for towing.

I think the wagon is a better idea.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 06-27-2012

(06-15-2012, 05:14 PM)Purplecomputer It would have been a cool project but I did always wonder if the turbo 616 would live long if you used it for towing.

I think the wagon is a better idea.

All right, I made a decision. Its gonna get a 617 turbo motor instead.

Most of the subframe work ive alread done will still be perfectly usable, so now ill keep my eyes open for a parts 300D kicking around.

In the meantime, I finally and truly think I smoked the automatic in this van, so for the interim, ill be taking the 5-speed and installing it behind the gas motor to get it rolling again until next year when the #$%() final emissions inspection can get done, and I can immediately invalidate it.

Im using it as a quasi mobile tool locker at a job site right now.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - aaa - 06-27-2012

EGTs would go down when you turbo it...

Why did you go 616 to begin with?

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 06-27-2012

(06-27-2012, 11:21 AM)aaa EGTs would go down when you turbo it...

Why did you go 616 to begin with?

Yeah, but under heavy load though continuously with the combination of the turbo running to pull, and the EGTs rising anyway because of the load? We are taking on average of 3000-5000 loads towed. Usually with a full van.

I went with the 616 since I started a turbo project in my 240 beforehand, and wrecked that body. I had the motor in hand essentially.

Every time I pulled a heavy grade in my old 300D, EGTs would skyrocket, especially when I had a trailer behind it. This was with a stock turbo, ect.

I think it would work fine if I didn't use the van so hard is my feeling.

But now I have this, which is lighter than the 240 as well. Might be an interesting destination instead for this motor, AND i can work on it as soon as I want legally.

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RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - aaa - 06-27-2012

I would assume you wouldn't boost it as hard a stock 617 is boosted. Additional air with not much additional fuel would go a long way towards cooling things down. Assuming you can live with 62hp.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 06-27-2012

If you're worried about EGTs get yourself:
A cheap EGT gauge ($65, probe included)
A cheap intercooler
A modern variable vane turbo (Dropped my EGTs ~80°F
A straight pipe (dropped my EGTs ~100°F)

Maybe put in an oversized oil cooler as well?

If you go with a 2056V I have a print of my adapter somewhere on PP, print it out 1:1 and start drilling.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 06-27-2012

(06-27-2012, 11:40 AM)aaa I would assume you wouldn't boost it as hard a stock 617 is boosted. Additional air with not much additional fuel would go a long way towards cooling things down. Assuming you can live with 62hp.

another factor thats been on my mind. For the same effort, I can have twice the HP in the van using all the same swap parts ive assembled if I go 617.

The 617 is also much closer to the 4.3 power output.

(06-27-2012, 01:36 PM)Simpler=Better If you're worried about EGTs get yourself:
A cheap EGT gauge ($65, probe included)
A cheap intercooler
A modern variable vane turbo (Dropped my EGTs ~80°F
A straight pipe (dropped my EGTs ~100°F)

Maybe put in an oversized oil cooler as well?

If you go with a 2056V I have a print of my adapter somewhere on PP, print it out 1:1 and start drilling.

I have the egt gauge, and i was planning on a straight pipe. Im thinking ill do all this type of stuff on another platform. Dump a stock 617 in this van, button it up, and call it a day. Big Grin

an intercooler and modern turbo would be nice, i admit. Later on

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 09-26-2012

exciting development. Windshield Kaput.

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Exciting because in the process of getting it replaced, im gonna lose the current inspection sticker. I was under the impression that I had to go ahead and get another sticker that ended the same time based on vin, but ive discovered that if its totally gone, I just pay 30 bucks, and get a new 2 year inspection sticker, and boom, I can start my conversion. Anything I get now will be till 2014, which is 25 years old

What im waiting on now is some rust repair on the windshield mount area, and then its off to be inspected.

also, staying with the 616 after sleeping on it

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 09-26-2012

Great!

The 616 will be nice and light, and you can always turn the pump up Smile

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 12-27-2012

some updates-

Put this van in the air, and I thought it was in good shape for rust, but notice how the subframe is hanging on one side here-

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driver side super rusty, not attached anymore-

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4.3 ready to be dropped-

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from inside-

[Image: 005.jpg]

dropped-

all the mount locations are rusty unfortunately-

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after the engine was out, whipped up a jig to control stock ride height for the replacement drivetrain

[Image: 025.jpg]

with engine removed-

[Image: 031.jpg]

have some rust on the body to deal with, only part though, apart from some rust in the rocker that can be resolved after the subframe is put back up-

[Image: 019.jpg]

Using that jig, I set up the new modified subframe, and got the correct engine height for the diesel

[Image: 032.jpg]

working on motor mounts now.

Good news on the throttle, I should be able to use the stock cable throttle on the diesel without incident. Interesting, it circles around the entire engine bay, and comes around to the driver side of the engine from the passenger side. thing is about 8 feet long-

[Image: 006.jpg]

big issues to work out not resolved yet, steering and oil filter. lots of room for a remote oil filter here though, where the stock fuel filter was-

[Image: 009.jpg]

starter fits perfectly though. I was worried about the location in relation to the lower control arm on the passenger side

[Image: 0142.jpg]

Engine is at the correct height using the jig, motor mounts look good, passenger side lines up perfect, driver side a little, ill be using the bracket off the 4.3 and adding to it.

driver-

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passenger-

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RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 01-16-2013

ive got a whole pile of parts ready to go to the powdercoater from the 89 subframe.

In taking it apart, I was amazed to discover that my 89 delivery van with over 200k on it still has the original chevy riveted upper ball joints. Goes to show what a grease nipple can do for you, all this vehicle does in go through potholes on deliveries for years, and they are still good.

question, ive got to source another swaybar, the front sway bar is split heavily on the ends, what sort of finish should be appropriate on a sway bar?
I was going to send whatever I found off to the powdercoater, but should powdercoat be used on something designed to flex? maybe just quality paint?

Im powdercoating-

-bumper brackets
-brake line brackets
-sway bar bushing brackets
-upper control arms
-lower control arms
-upper control arm attachment things. (some kind of large rod with -threaded holes that the control arm bolts to)
-debating on the knuckles, not rusty, and if I leave them alone I don't have to take apart the brake and wheel bearing, plus they are way easier to get off later on if I want to

Both this and the parts van show that the upper control arms, especially on the driver side rust really bad where they attach to the subframe. Was just going to paint them, but what the hell.