VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread

VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - Printable Version

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RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - SurfRodder - 09-20-2010

(10-06-2009, 03:10 PM)DeliveryValve Got an update yet? Very curious...

So, it hasnt quite been a year yet, but close enough...actually about how long I figgered it'd take me to get to this.

Here are the rest of the dimensions for the GT2360V:

Compressor
Exducer: 60mm
Inducer: 42.5mm
12 blades (6 full, 6 half)

Turbine
Inducer: 50.5mm
Exducer: 46mm
9 blades

the supplied actuator closed the vanes with a relatively linear pull with increasing vacuum:
0" Hg vanes open (to turbine)
4.5" Hg vanes 1/4 shut
6.75" Hg vanes 1/2 shut
9" Hg vanes 3/4 shut
11.5" Hg vanes shut

I removed a locator roll pin and was able to flip the orientation of the turbine side & vane control 180 degrees (a bit of a PITA to get the 3 roller bushings and vanes to line up properly with only 2 hands, but doable) to get the oil feed on top with the turbine section to the aft. I then clocked the compressor side to approximately where I want it. I will have to fine tune it once I get to installing it on the car. My only real concern now is that the actuator is pointing straight up, but it should clear after looking at a Cali setup at the yards this weekend. I should be able to make something work at any rate. Anyway, here are some more pics:

MOD EDIT: Resized pictures to viewable dimensions.
heres a look at the vane control, first on the turbine housing:

and then on the center section side

Heres a pic of the numbers stamped onto the compressor housing:

if anyone wants a clearer picture or any other shots please let me know and Ill hunt for my good camera...these were from my mobile.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - DeliveryValve - 09-21-2010

(09-20-2010, 11:13 PM)SurfRodder ...Here are the rest of the dimensions for the GT2360V:

Compressor
Exducer: 60mm
Inducer: 42.5mm
12 blades (6 full, 6 half)

Turbine
Inducer: 50.5mm
Exducer: 46mm
9 blades

...

Thanks SurfRodder! Better late then never!

I calculate a trim of 49.7. Do you got the numbers for the A/R on the compressor and turbine sides of the housing?

.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - SurfRodder - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 01:42 AM)DeliveryValve Thanks SurfRodder! Better late then never!

I calculate a trim of 49.7. Do you got the numbers for the A/R on the compressor and turbine sides of the housing?

Would they be stamped somewhere? The turbo had no documentation with it. Ill take another look at it, but I don't recall any other markings other than what's in the pics. I guess I could take it apart again and measure the appropriate radii and get a good estimate...now that I know how to do it, it's pretty easy to take down and reassemble.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - ForcedInduction - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 01:05 PM)SurfRodder Would they be stamped somewhere?

On the GT turbos it will be a decimal number like .53 or .51

Thanks for the dimensions and pictures! I'll add it to the list.

Looks like the only major difference from the 59 and 60 is the compressor trim. The 59 has 2mm larger inducer so it will flow more air but the 60 will have a less aggressive surge line (a very good thing on a 617). Basically they're comparable to the T3-50 and T3-55, but with the GT's far better aerodynamics and RPM range.

GT2359V
Inducer: 44.5mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim

GT2360V
Compressor
Inducer: 42.5mm
Exducer: 60mm
12 blades
50 trim

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - INC - 09-22-2010

Where i can find part Nr for this turbo?

http://www.kkdmotorsport.com/kauppa.php?t=1270670598&k=1270835105

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - DeliveryValve - 10-20-2010

(09-21-2010, 01:05 PM)SurfRodder
(09-21-2010, 01:42 AM)DeliveryValve ... Do you got the numbers for the A/R on the compressor and turbine sides of the housing?

Would they be stamped somewhere? The turbo had no documentation with it. Ill take another look at it, but I don't recall any other markings other than what's in the pics. I guess I could take it apart again and measure the appropriate radii and get a good estimate...now that I know how to do it, it's pretty easy to take down and reassemble.

According to this eBay ad, the A/R on the turbine side is .64
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbocharger-Garrett-GT2360V-ZD30CTi-Renault-Mascow-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem588a015cd0QQitemZ380272467152QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_1299wt_939

Quote:Product Info
Item Name: Garrett GT2360V Turbo / Renault Mascott ZD30 ZD30CTi / 160DXI engine
Item No.:0102-723-060
Garrett P/N: 726372-10 / 726371-0010
NISSAN P/N: 14411-DC00A
Situation: - Brand New Genuine Garrett VGT Turbo
Bearing System: Journal Bearing / Oil Cooled
Turbine Housing: AR 64
Qty: 1 pcs
Manufacture: IHI , JAPAN

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - anjay - 12-09-2010

I have a Garrett 3571KLVN. I found pictures of it on internet but wander what this site policy is on publishing "lilfed" pictures from somewhere else.
To my surprise exhaust inlet is T3 flange but vertical. I am planing to replace my original turbo on my 603. It is going to be tight fit by the look of it. At this point my goal is to overcome turbo lag of original set up.
Compressor dia is 71 mm. A/R 0.58
Turbine wheel dia 62 mm.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - ForcedInduction - 12-11-2010

(12-09-2010, 05:10 AM)anjay what this site policy is on publishing "lilfed" pictures from somewhere else.

Its a free country. Pictures don't take physical goods or wealth from anyone.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - anjay - 12-12-2010

Here it is.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=154737

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - winmutt - 12-13-2010

(12-11-2010, 09:57 AM)ForcedInduction
(12-09-2010, 05:10 AM)anjay what this site policy is on publishing "lilfed" pictures from somewhere else.
Its a free country. Pictures don't take physical goods or wealth from anyone.

Thats not entirely true, but generally for the purposes used here its OK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - ForcedInduction - 12-14-2010

(12-13-2010, 10:31 AM)winmutt Thats not entirely true

Actually it is. Don't like it? Feel free to delete the link.

New turbo added;
Schwitzer S2EGL069 (S2E, 103-2085)
Caterpillar 3116 170,185 HP, Various applications (Bus, Semi, GMC TopKick)

Compressor
Exducer: 76.2mm
Inducer: 57.5mm
57 trim
12 blades
0.60A/R
4" mouth, 2" outlet, Map-width enhancement slot

Turbine
Inducer: 69.75mm
Exducer: 60.5mm
10 blades
0.70A/R
T3 flange w/split ports, 4" v-band outlet

[Image: S2E.jpg]

Wheel on the left is from an HX35

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - Biohazard - 12-14-2010

(12-09-2010, 05:10 AM)anjay I have a Garrett 3571KLVN. I found pictures of it on internet but wander what this site policy is on publishing "lilfed" pictures from somewhere else.
To my surprise exhaust inlet is T3 flange but vertical. I am planing to replace my original turbo on my 603. It is going to be tight fit by the look of it. At this point my goal is to overcome turbo lag of original set up.
Compressor dia is 71 mm. A/R 0.58
Turbine wheel dia 62 mm.

That should be a fairly easy adapter plate build to make it connect up to your manifold. I've also eye-balled that turbo online, with the intent of using one when my MW superpump is done.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - George3soccer - 12-14-2010

Ok guys, I looked around, and was wondering. Now can we compare the Schwitzer S2EGL069, and the Holset Hx35. Not sure which Holset we should be comparing, but does anyone have insights between these two turbos and there maps.

The schwitzer does look like a similar turbo in measurements.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - ForcedInduction - 12-14-2010

Schwitzer discussion will be here: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/schwitzer-t-2059.html

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - anjay - 12-14-2010

Here is additional information on Garrett GT3571.
Exhaust housing is not clock able (at least without machining).
When turbo is bolted to W140 manifold (with use of adapter), the center cartridge is tilted about 7-10 deg towards engine. By itself is no big deal,
but oil drain is very close to bodies frame.
To make it fit I did have to cut off from exhaust housing two pedestals for attachment points of electronic box for vane control.
Cartridge is water cooled.
Turbo itself is BIG. After installing on exhaust manifold, exhaust housing is clearing the frame by 1/4"!
Configuration of exhaust pipe connection to turbo is in shape of elongated triangle. Just enough so special flange is needed.
At this point I have a doubt that it will do what I want but is no harm to give a try.

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - superturbocompound - 12-14-2010

(12-14-2010, 07:59 PM)anjay Here is additional information on Garrett GT3571.
Exhaust housing is not clock able (at least without machining).
When turbo is bolted to W140 manifold (with use of adapter), the center cartridge is tilted about 7-10 deg towards engine. By itself is no big deal,
but oil drain is very close to bodies frame.
To make it fit I did have to cut off from exhaust housing two pedestals for attachment points of electronic box for vane control.
Cartridge is water cooled.
Turbo itself is BIG. After installing on exhaust manifold, exhaust housing is clearing the frame by 1/4"!
Configuration of exhaust pipe connection to turbo is in shape of elongated triangle. Just enough so special flange is needed.
At this point I have a doubt that it will do what I want but is no harm to give a try.

i've got 2 of those turbo's and the exhaust housing are huge,i've installed one in my isuzu 2.8l, i will be starting the engine in a couple of days,but from my research i guess that the gt3571klv uses the same compressor wheel as the gt3571 and thus the same compressor map as well,after some plotting i see that this turbo doesn't like boosts in access of 25psi,this turbo is used by hino for their 4.2 or 4.6L truck engine producing 175HP at 2700rpm

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - anjay - 01-07-2011

Here is a link to Garrett GT turbo catalog.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/catalog/catalog_common/Garrett2009Catalog2of2.pdf

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - ForcedInduction - 04-03-2011

I got a good look at Ford's "Powerstroke" at the auto show, I even got to test drive an F350 a few times. 800lbft of torque is a marketing joke, the Ecoboost V6 powered F-150 with half the torque was FAR quicker.

Note Garrett's SST uses two separate compressor wheels, not a single wheel as previously believed, and they are timed together by a roll pin...

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - 300D50 - 04-04-2011

A roll pin? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

When those start falling out...

Other than that, it should keep everything clocked right as long as it's torqued on properly. :p

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - majesty78 - 05-05-2011

Here we go ;-)

World First – Ball Bearing VNT Turbo Boosts Premium Diesel Segment

Class-Leading Innovation
Daimler’s new 3.0L V6 diesel engine, destined for the Mercedes-Benz E, S & R Class series, is winning plaudits around the world for its stunning combination of performance, fuel efficiency and lower emissions. A significant contributor to this impressive powertrain evolution is the world’s first Ball Bearing turbo for the premium diesel segment, developed by Honeywell.
Engine Performance
With this extensive revision of the successful Mercedes-Benz V6 diesel engine in production since 2005, Daimler has succeeded in combining high power and torque with significantly reduced fuel consumption and emissions values. The latest V6 engine is delivering 18% more power and 22% more torque – a record in its class – while returning up to a 12% fuel efficiency gain and lower CO2 and NOx emissions. Much of this performance uplift is driven through innovations and optimization linked to the engine’s turbo technology.
Turbo Insight
The Honeywell VNT turbo developed for Daimler brings to the premium diesel segment for the first time the driveability and engine efficiency benefits of ultra-fast turbo ramp-up delivered by Ball Bearing technology. Honeywell estimates that the Ball Bearing system delivers an improvement of 70% in time-to-torque improvement in accelerations from low engine speeds.
The turbo is water-cooled because of the engine’s high turbine inlet temperatures (up to 860°C) and also features electronic actuation to ensure precise alignment of turbo boost to engine requirements throughout the power range.
Karim Hassaim, Manager of Application Engineering at Honeywell Turbo Technologies says: “The high temperatures meant introducing advanced turbine materials including an innovative ‘boltless’ insert design which, jointly designed with Daimler engineers, guides the hot exhaust gases into the variable geometry nozzle and then out of the turbine wheel into the exhaust line.”
The overall result is a high temperature, high efficiency, low-inertia turbo that quickens responsiveness and contributes significantly to overall engine efficiency and driver experience.

Honeywell Ball Bearing Turbo Debuts in Premium Diesel Cars

From race cars to heavy-duty commercial vehicles to light-duty trucks, Honeywell Turbo Technologies has been at the forefront of extending the benefits of ball bearing turbos to more vehicle segments. And this time, the new frontier is premium diesel cars, where performance reigns supreme while fuel efficiency is becoming increasingly important. Honeywell ball bearing technology has been adopted by Daimler for its 3.0L V6 diesel engine, which is destined for the latest Mercedes-Benz E, C, S and R Class series.

Thanks to a world ‘first’ ball bearing turbo innovation from Honeywell for the premium diesel passenger vehicle segment, the benefits of this breakthrough bearing technology are immediately palpable, practically from the moment when the pedal is put to the metal.
“Compared to the sliding mechanism of conventional journal bearing, the rolling mechanism of ball bearing results in enhanced mechanical efficiency, and therefore better turbo efficiency,” says Craig Balis, VP of Engineering at Honeywell Turbo Technologies. “The significance of this improvement is many-fold.”
First, the transient response is much improved. The magnitude of time-to-boost improvement attributable to ball bearing can be between 20-70%. Second, ball bearing mechanism is shown to help deliver 2% fuel efficiency improvement compared to conventional journal bearing. Although this number may seem small to regular drivers, for OEMs, this incremental improvement can only help them meet ever tighter emissions standards. Lastly, ball bearing turbos work wonders in cold start condition. This is because unlike journal bearing where two layers of films coat the bearings, ball bearing is much less reliant on oil. Therefore, the high oil viscosity associated with cold start condition is much less an impediment to turbo responsiveness in ball bearing turbos.
Honeywell engineers have amassed considerable experience in making ball bearing turbos for racing and commercial vehicle applications, but introducing it to high-end diesel cars is not just a matter of scaling it down. It involves a series of challenges around higher temperature, higher rotational speed, and tighter packaging.
For example, at 200,000 rpm, the mechanical load sustained by a turbo can be very high, requiring Honeywell engineers to select the right material and the most optimized design for component durability. In terms of under-the-hood packaging, while ball bearing and journal bearing share similar constraints, the ball bearing presents Honeywell engineers with the unique task of ensuring bearing robustness with smaller shaft diameter.

Honeywell’s ball bearing expertise not only lies in the product design, but also extends to the shop floor. The assembly and balancing of ball bearing mechanism has to be very precise, with very tight measurement and tolerance level. All this is made possible by close collaboration between engineering and manufacturing experts at Honeywell.
“As the trend towards improved fuel economy continues, ball bearing will be a key enabling technology to help OEMs develop ever-smaller engines that operate at lower average engine speeds, while maintaining the same fun to drive, ” says David Paja, VP of Marketing at Honeywell Turbo Technologies. “We expect this technology to be adopted in the future on smaller 4-cylinder engines.”

Source:

www.honeywellbooster.com

http://www.honeywellbooster.com/boos...m-diesel-cars/

http://www.honeywellbooster.com/boos...va-motor-show/

Best regards,

Alex

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - majesty78 - 05-17-2011

John Deere S200V , produced by kkk schwitzer.

Compressor: 69mm exducer, 44.5 mm inducer
Turbine: 67mm / 56mm

RE: VNT/VGT and WG turbo information thread - DeliveryValve - 05-17-2011

(05-05-2011, 07:14 AM)majesty78 Here we go ;-)

World First – Ball Bearing VNT Turbo Boosts Premium Diesel Segment
...

OK, I want! But at a cheap arse price! Big Grin