+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Other (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Forum: Projects (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: OM648 swap into a w123 (/showthread.php?tid=3913)
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - M-ic - 11-27-2015
This is an amazing job!! If this works than it really opens up possibilities in engine conversions. Great work
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 11-28-2015
Thanks,
That is the idea. Besides this engine the same stuff will get pretty much any of this generation of cars engines to work. So v12s, 55k, etc.
The reason to put the effort forth for the diesel is the high cost of ecus to run common rail and the complexity of tuning. But having factory drivability in any application is a plus.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - Tobulus - 12-01-2015
Maybe you can get an ABS-controlunit to send the speed signals via canbus by just feeding it with 4 (or maybe less) rectangular signals on the speed sensor input wires. It will throw some errors, but I guess it will read the correct speed and prevent the ECU from going into limp mode. Maybe even the automatic transmission will work just with this.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 12-01-2015
Not quite that simple but I will be sending wheel speed data on the bus. I just will not be using any of the factory computers to do this stuff. It adds expense and stuff you have to put in the car that I do not want. And inevitably problems making them happy. The more computers you put in the more you have to add to each system to make it happy.
The whole point of the work I am doing is to remove all of this and have a factory ECU work as though it is in a factory environment.
The transmission side of things will be handled with my standalone tcm. Which will be handling most if not all of the CAN messages.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 04-14-2016
So a little update. I have sent a hash via my laptop and gotten start release from the CDI module. So it looks like going to an emulator is going to work out. I have to work out the details of that implementation but should be fairly straight forward.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - North_Star - 04-16-2016
I will be following this build with great interest!
I just posted my own build today, W201 OM613.
One thing I stumbled upon was the mention of rare engines and high prices...for once, I enjoy a benefit from being a neighboring country of Germany. Parts are dirt cheap and plentiful. I bought a whole 320 CDI from 1999 for 2500 USD. A complete running OM613 can be found for 1000-1500 USD.
Speaking German as a second language has been a huge advantage in my build, for forums as well as sourcing parts.
Best of luck!
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 08-03-2016
Ok,
So I am going to move forward with just using the EIS, and keys, and esl emulator. I bought some equipment and a whole bunch of keys to reprogram. This will also potentially give me the possibility of doing remote locking in the future if I want. Among some other things. I really just decided that for now on this project I want to get it rolling.
I got the vacuum pump and front timing cover and a new timing gear on the way for the 648. So I will have brakes. In the next couple of weeks I will pull the car off the road and start the swap. 1st thing is going to be seeing what I have to do with the oil pan. Hoping to do a minor relief for the rear sump but have other things in place if I need to swap to a front sump.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - atypicalguy - 08-04-2016
(08-03-2016, 09:49 AM)whipplem104 Ok,
So I am going to move forward with just using the EIS, and keys, and esl emulator. I bought some equipment and a whole bunch of keys to reprogram. This will also potentially give me the possibility of doing remote locking in the future if I want. Among some other things. I really just decided that for now on this project I want to get it rolling.
I got the vacuum pump and front timing cover and a new timing gear on the way for the 648. So I will have brakes. In the next couple of weeks I will pull the car off the road and start the swap. 1st thing is going to be seeing what I have to do with the oil pan. Hoping to do a minor relief for the rear sump but have other things in place if I need to swap to a front sump.
Would be cool to put a 648 in to an older w460 diesel gwagen. TThe w463 diesel never came to the us so it requires 17 k to federalize.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 08-30-2016
Got the engine fitted in for placement. Some simple adapter plates for the engine mounts to make from plate aluminum and a front sump oil pan. Working on the fuel system now and will start wiring up the car. Hope to have it running in a few weeks for a test drive up and down the parking lot.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 09-28-2016
Just drove the car in the parking lot. I am super excited.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - bkc - 09-28-2016
Spectacular! I can't wait to see this all work out!
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - SurfRodder - 09-29-2016
Nice! when is it ready to show?
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 09-29-2016
I am probably a couple of weeks before really driving it. Mainly just trying to get some things together to finish. I will have exhaust done today or early next week and need to work out a solution for the charge air piping.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-04-2016
Ok, drove a few blocks today. Have to get some stuff buttoned up but we are up and functional.
Need to get the boost piping figured out a little better. Just temp stuff until I get an i/c design. So it will be crude.
a bit of wiring cleaned up and it is ready. I will get some pics and video in a week or so when it is really setup and driving.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-06-2016
First full throttle pull in the engine swap. It is short but you get the point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aMgCxTWei0
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - TKMad - 10-07-2016
Sounds great! How does it feel?
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-07-2016
It is fast. I love the fact that is is factory. Just turn it on and drive. I will have a really solid tcu tune to match the engine parameters in a bit. But it is already nicer than the previous setup with an om602.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - starynovy - 10-09-2016
TCU tune? Who does this and how.
Gearbox in my W210 makes engine producing 80kW over the stock like it is not even trying.. shitty gearbox controll really. So much TC slip, sensless down shifting..omg.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-09-2016
I use a PCS tcu for the transmission. It is also handling the CAN communications for the ecu to operate outside its original evironment. I can run it in factory cars as well but I do not have the early CAN structure. I can run the transmission just fine from the CAN but I do not have start auth in place. So you have to piggy back the factory tcu for that. ON later cars, ie 2002 and up with ME2.8 etc. It is pretty much plug and play.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-13-2016
Drove the car home last night and back to work. So far everything works turn key. I have quite a few details to work on over time but the project is a success. I forgot to check the ratios in the transmission. So it was shifting a little funny last night and this morning I realized that the trans was a large nag instead of a small and changed the ratios and boom. Back to what I expect. A little tuning and it will be really solid.
Next is to get another one and do a truck swap kit. Thinking of using a GM 6l80e. Either a range rover or a toyota FJ.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-17-2016
Drove the car a few hundred miles this weekend. So far so good. Love the factory drive quality. Few small things to figure out. Got engine temp and iat. up on the CAN monitor. The engine is running cold. Looks like a t stat might be in order. Going to adjust the engine height a bit and get the driveline angle better. Under full load it starts to vibrate in the rear. And thinking of an electric p/s pump for the self leveling. Just got a really base tune in the trans now. It is a little firm for my taste and will work on that for the next few weekends.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-23-2016
Another 300 miles this weekend. Looks like I am getting around 30mph average. Not driving hard but also not driving to get mileage. Combined city.highway. I will keep track and get a solid number as time goes by and my 1st long trip on the highway. I hope to be getting around 35-40. But I have 3.06 gears. I am thinking about something like the 2.74 range to swap in the future. Maybe even 2.46ish.
Just love this engine.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-28-2016
getting the tune on the transmission really dialed. It is always amazing how a few changes in shift points and it just changes the way the car feels. It is also fun that I have a client with a 2006 E320 cdi that is running the tcm-2800 in his car and to work on the tune remotely and share the info from two different cars but same engine and transmission. Comparing logs between the two and what I feel on my end and then taking that to the customer file.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - starynovy - 10-29-2016
Well I salute you, finally someone who instead dumping much superrior common-rail engine uses it. Now you can tune it to 300HP without touching any HW and have lagless experience of power from down low to rev limiter.
So if I get it, you make these TCUs?
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-31-2016
I do not make them but am the sole retailer for PCS on this application. I have been working with them since 2007. This is just the newest version of the tcm and a huge step forward in control.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 10-31-2016
Also,
I have been thinking about getting into the tuning. I Am going to mate these with the gm 6l80e as well. So I want to have different engine transmission packages with different tunes as well. I was over on a tuning forum and it seems like the main addresses are pretty well known for fuel and boost. So I just need to get some hardware etc. I really want to do a flash tune obd though instead of a bdm. Still looking for the specific stuff to use. Hard to weed through it all.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - starynovy - 10-31-2016
PM me price on that controler, my 613 is making around 220kW and it feels so shitty and sluggish because of that gearbox that I stopped to drive it.
Regarding 648 tune..EDC16. Sure it can be done via OBD flash, but look on yours HW/SW numbers and search internet if such full BDM exists for you. If not and something go wrong during the flash, which happens a lot then the ECU is dead. BDM is safe... Unless you are planing on genuine €€€€ equipement..
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - mike-81-240d - 12-04-2016
Glad to see it's alive Russell, sounds like it's about time to drop that OM602 into my 300TD.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 12-06-2016
It is sitting here on the floor if you are still interested.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 12-06-2016
I picked up a Mini Cooper P/S pump for the self leveling suspension. Looks super easy to set up. I am going to put a level sensor on the suspension to turn it on and off as the vehicle rises and drops but still use the standard leveling valve for ride height control.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - 50harleyrider - 01-26-2017
How is the swap working out? This is the only one I've seen for the OM648. I'm dying to try a common rail in my next swap. So if I buy a w211 320 cdi in the states, I can use the ecu in the swap vehicle? The 05,06 e320 CDI cars are showing up for sale in various wrecked conditions now for reasonable prices.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 01-26-2017
IT is great. I daily drive it and have around 4000 miles on it now. It works flawlessly. Drives like factory.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - M-ic - 01-29-2017
Any more videos of the car?
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 01-29-2017
No,
Is there anything specific you are looking for?
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - 50harleyrider - 02-01-2017
If you want to sell the original OM 648 rear sump and pump, PM me. I saw in your post you went to a front sump. I'm going to go ahead a buy an 05-06 E320 CDI for a future swap. Great work!
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 02-01-2017
Not in a big rush. But I am open to offers.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - baldur - 02-02-2017
Nice work. I have used one of those PCS controllers on one project, but that was with a modern clutch to clutch transmission (5R110) which is a bitch to control.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - SurfRodder - 02-03-2017
For a w124, which C class chassis shifter is required? W203?
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - Frankencar - 02-03-2017
(10-13-2016, 11:08 AM)whipplem104 Next is to get another one and do a truck swap kit. Thinking of using a GM 6l80e. Either a range rover or a toyota FJ.
I would be very interested in doing this as well - The wider spread between low and high gears would be ideal in a street driven 4x4 and that OM648 is easily the most appropriate engine for most of the rigs I'd be interested in building. I would love to see this all come together!
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 02-04-2017
(02-03-2017, 08:52 AM)SurfRodder For a w124, which C class chassis shifter is required? W203?
The best shifter for a w124 is the PRND4321 shifters from the w202 c class. It bolts in perfect. Trim and all. The tip shifters do not fit but anything can be made to fit. I have a tip shifter from a w203 in my wagon but not trim or anything. Poor car is always being changed around.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - Porkymerc - 02-05-2017
Hi there, I've been following this thread for a few months now. I have a mint '83 200D that I want to convert to OM647 with 722.6400 as per W211.
As the car is in almost as new condition I want to trial the conversion in a rough 280E chassis that I have so I can finesse everything beforehand.
I have no experience of reading and interpreting CAN signals, minimal experience in oscilloscope diagnostics but can soon pick things up. I'm a truck diesel mech by trade so the mechanical aspect does not worry me.
Have you got as far as being able to construct and sell a device to run the engine using just the engine ecu with your trans controller? I prefer the five pot motor as it is slightly lighter, produces roughly the same power as the M110 and carries on the W123 five pot tradition. Crucially here in the UK the E270cdi did not need a DPF which makes life easier, however I would like to try and fit some type of NOx reduction system such as SCR as diesel is becoming a dirty word here.
I would appreciate any time and advice you are able to give and hats off to you for your work so far.
Gareth
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 02-05-2017
Yes, I can set up the whole thing to work. I use the EIS and smart keys still and the PCS TCM-2800 to run it.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - Porkymerc - 02-06-2017
Thanks, so if I bought a complete donor car would I need to send you any components to be worked?
Can you put a dollar figure on the job including the trans controller please.
Thanks
Gareth
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 02-06-2017
If you want any keys. Otherwise no. I can just set you up with the tcm if you have all the components.
Just the tcm for this application and support is 1800.00. I would need to know which vehicle the ecu came out of and that it is the correct CAN matrix. That can get tricky. If you sent it in then I could verify. Otherwise I would have to source an edc module with the correct one and pair it up with an EIS and keys.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - Porkymerc - 02-06-2017
Ok, my plan is to purchase a complete vehicle so I would be able to send any components that you would need to make things less tricky.
Soon as I have a donor car I'll be in touch again.
Thanks
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - SurfRodder - 02-08-2017
(02-04-2017, 11:05 AM)whipplem104(02-03-2017, 08:52 AM)SurfRodder For a w124, which C class chassis shifter is required? W203?
The best shifter for a w124 is the PRND4321 shifters from the w202 c class. It bolts in perfect. Trim and all. The tip shifters do not fit but anything can be made to fit. I have a tip shifter from a w203 in my wagon but not trim or anything. Poor car is always being changed around.
Awesome. Thanks. Ill keep an eye out for a future swap with this in mind.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - M-ic - 02-15-2017
(01-29-2017, 02:31 PM)whipplem104 No,
Is there anything specific you are looking for?
No, nothing specific. Would love to see more of it though. Just to get a better sense of the functionality.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - whipplem104 - 02-16-2017
Ok,.
Well it runs and drives like a stock vehicle. Tip start and all. The transmission tune is now so close that I almost forget sometimes that it is not stock. I switched over to one of my modified valve bodies a few weeks ago to do some testing and tuning on that and I had forgotten how close I had the stock setup tuned in. It took me a bit to get it back but there are some holes still with this tune.
The only thing I have not had time to figure out for sure and I think it has something to do with outside temp input is the glow system shuts down early when it is cold and it smokes. It all turns on and the car starts up right away and then after a short period it shuts down and the engine is not warm enough to not smoke a bunch. But I also have straight exhaust so there is not dpf or anything either.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - starynovy - 02-17-2017
Same thing happens on earlier 613 family.. there is pre-glow and after-glow time period in ECU somewhere, you have better luck finding it in EDC16. But thing to give a tough.. it should not smoke in stock condition so probably something is shot on your engine friend. Ours smoke bcs of low compression and bad mixing with machined down pistons.
RE: OM648 swap into a w123 - tmoney - 12-16-2018
Here is my new OM648 swap candidate! How has everything turned out with the w123? Would love to see a few more pics and vids!!