C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - Printable Version

C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 (/showthread.php?tid=5193)

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RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - whipplem104 - 05-09-2015

The problem is that you need rear wheel speed data from traction to run the transmission. Then it is just a slippery slope of inputs. If I remember correctly you can get it to work with just rear wheel data but at a certain point it will go into limp. It is not reliable. The wheel speed data for the rear wheels needs to be calculated correctly for the differential ratio as well. Otherwise the transmission will detect slip and go into limp mode.
I will put it this way. I have yet to see one of these projects work correctly unless everything was installed as it was originally in the car it came out of.
The good part is you can use the w210 rear wheel carriers and other parts that would make this doable on a w124. Figure out how to put the w210 steering column in with the steering angle sensor and have a fully functional traction system in your car. It would be cool. ASR or ESP.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - DiseaselWeasel - 05-09-2015

Thanks for your input, I appreciate this sort of honest and valuable information! Maybe I should give the spare 603 pump away after all. But I'm not giving up yet - maybe I just have an even bigger challenge ahead of me Smile

I'll pull the ASR stuff anddecide later, it's not too late and the car's still here and not yet scrapped.

On the other hand I'm not a huge fan of electronic traction controll, I feel more comfortable with spining wheels (having a feel for what's too much throttle and what's not, if you know what I mean)...

I guess the wheel speed signal is transmitted via the CAN? 'Cause I've not found another connection between the two wiring looms, apart from the green double wire labeled with a "CAN" tag. And I've had all of them in my hands Big Grin

That said I've not looked into ASR/EGS connections... I'll have a look! Thanks again for your input! And if you feel I'm a bit naive - well, yeah - I certainly am! Big Grin

I have no idea of what I'm doing here... Wink

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - whipplem104 - 05-09-2015

You are correct it is all through CAN. I am not saying to not give it a go. Just be prepared. Every generation of ecu/tcu/etc... is a little different in what they require and what the defaults are and the things that will trigger limp. As diagnostics and logics get better the systems will shut down smaller amounts from different failures rather than shut the whole car down.
I did forget to mention that the ecu will not allow full revs on the engine without wheel speed data as well.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - DiseaselWeasel - 05-10-2015

Hmmm. There's no denying that you'r onto something here... I will re-think this all. Going mechanical IP & aftermarket TCU will solve almost all of my problems. it's tempting, but will cost me money. The electronics came with the car, for free. But retro-fitting the ASR is a huge task, everything else is just a lot of wiring. Drive shafts, steering angle sensor... That's going to be huge. And retro-fitting W210 steering rack will be impossible to make legal. Almost. Thanks for your input - I'll think about it all.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This is W204 intercooler compared to W210 E300 intercooler...

[Image: llk-2.jpg]

If I can make this fit, it should be a nice upgrade. Got it cheap for 20€ inc. shipping...

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - maxypriest - 05-11-2015

why the w210 steering rack? W124 PAS pump fits the OM606.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - Hario' - 05-11-2015

I think he meant for steering angle data, but that is measured in the column / wheel mounting IIRC.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - maxypriest - 05-11-2015

ah, i see. Thank makes sense. Cripes thses cars are complicated.
Still it works, my W210 E300TD is brilliant in the ice and wet, it's almost un crashable.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - DiseaselWeasel - 05-12-2015

The steering rack in my '98 E300 at least has a sensor that goes to the ASR wiring loom; the only connection near the column is the brake switch. I've had it all apart. And the more I think about it and the more I look at my collection of wiring looms, the more I feel like spending the money for a modified 603 pump. And go the easy-ish way... Rolleyes

Damn computers, eh?

Not a single fault without them... Going strong since 913.000km! This is my daily right now; 300TD n/a. Bullet proof, economic and dead reliable. Doesn't even need current to stay runing.

[Image: faxi_rastplatz.jpg]

Only a couple of stitches here and there Big Grin

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - maxypriest - 05-13-2015

"Doesn't even need current to stay runing"

i love old diesels for this reason - my std is the same.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - DiseaselWeasel - 05-23-2015

Got free 420SE speedo... Since 722.6 has no cable I needed an electronic speedo. This came for free, so I tried to make it fit.

[Image: w126-ki-1.jpg]

Bit of cutting, filing, sawing and angle grinding and fits quite nicely to W124 gauge cluster!

[Image: w126-ki-2.jpg]

Plug for rev counter needs re-soldering and moving, parts of backing plate needed cutting away - and fits! Holes for screws line up very nice! Big Grin

Success.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - DiseaselWeasel - 06-20-2015

[Image: llk-31.jpg]

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - MrWolf - 10-24-2015

How's the transformation? long time with no news, and this is a great proyect

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - going OM606 now... - DiseaselWeasel - 10-25-2015

Hi!

I discarded the OM606, it's too much work right now. I don't have the time left to tinker with huge projects. I know some people just throw them in in two days, that's not for me. However, I got hold of a #22 cylinder head in almost new condition. So - that's the new plan. with the OM603 I might even be able to get historic plates and cut taxes in half... And to be perfectly honest; I like the OM603 better.

[Image: 22er_kopf_om603.jpg]

However, I will intercool the OM603 as well. But it has to look factory-ish. So no welding pipes to the manifold and using blue silicone hoses (I HATE blue silicon hoses!!). Instead, I bought two E290TD manifolds.

[Image: e290-2.jpg]

^the last pic is a montage, I'm not over the moon with how it looks, but it leaves the pump & stop lever accesible and I have to change only a few little things to install it. I hope I'll be able to dress everything up nice to make it appear factory, 'cause the plenum of course needs to be custom made.

And that's where I am right now... As I said, very little time left for this. If it's runing again, I might put the OM606 into the Taxi, that's the much cooler sleeper (and the OM603 n/a is soo slow).

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - MrWolf - 10-26-2015

sad to hear about that, the 606 proyect with all electronics seemed so cool and interesting, I have some friends who have an om606 into their old mercs but always with the mecanical pump. What do you try to do with those 290td intake mainfold, upgrade the turbo performance maybe? or have better access to that side of the engine? I also hate blue silicon pipes and red silicon joints.
By the way, about the taxi, those cars with so many kilometers is better to keep them original if they work well, but i suppose you know that

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 10-27-2015

Manifold to avoid it looking like this: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=5749&pid=67960#pid67960 sorry@the creator, it may work but that's ugly as fuck! And that's not for me. Also I like the idea of having long intake runners to help with torque a bit.

Taxi; well, it has some occasional knocking, sound like con rods. And since I allready have a engine standing around - it's the logical choice. But for now - it works. Car has 935.000km, engine - only god knows (2nd engine, not new)... I finally decided against using the electronics, when a friend's E290 went to limp mode after a vacuume pod failure or something like that. And the thought of a OM60X with limp mode - well, that's just terrifying! And then - I'm no electrician. And I'm yet to see a working build with stock electronics in another car... All in all: the mechanical pump might be the "dumb" way - but it works. And only stops to do so with a major failure of a mechanical nature. I like that better.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - MrWolf - 10-28-2015

maybe that knocking in the taxi are just the engine mounts, it's an easy to check thing and when the mounts are without oil you can feel a knock from 2000 rpm when stop accelerating.
I loved the idea of the electronic om606 because of the economical compaired to an adapted mechanical pump. A friend of mine addapted the electronic key to a w201 190, and that's interesting because you can use the electronic pump without needing to quit the elecronic inmo (antithief), but of course the limp mode is sooo bad and problematic in old cars with old pipes, I understand your decission.
P.D. Sorry for my bad english, I'm used to read but no so used to post

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - seanyt - 10-28-2015

The ecu can be mapped to not go into limp mode, Ive mine mapped with no egr , airflow meter, fuel shut off solenoid/ fuel temp sensor.
Just crank sensor , tps, and map sensor. Very minimal and no immobiliser needed either.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - wanger - 10-28-2015

(10-28-2015, 02:06 PM)seanyt The ecu can be mapped to not go into limp mode, Ive mine mapped with no egr , airflow meter, fuel shut off solenoid/ fuel temp sensor.
Just crank sensor , tps, and map sensor. Very minimal and no immobiliser needed either.

any more information on this sean? i'm doing a conversion and was wanting to keep the factory ECU, i have a complete and running Daiy E300

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - seanyt - 10-28-2015

Yeah I've ecus there already. Socketed and remapped to run all the minimal sensors with deimmobiliser fitted and programmed.
You using stock turbo or uprated.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - wanger - 10-29-2015

stock turbo for now, ill upgrade to VNT something or other later.. only after a few HP more, say 250 so mild mods and a new manifold to miss the chasis rails on the defender.

ow does the fuelling get adjusted?

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - seanyt - 10-29-2015

Thats why i asked about fuelling it can be supplied with a stock fuelling or with additional fuelling and even maps for 6 or 8mm pumps. It can also be remapped afterwards unlike the original ecu.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - M-ic - 11-02-2015

Nice project, sad to hear that the 606 electronic conversion wont happen. In regards to the ecu going into limp mode without ESP, this is true. BUT in cars with only abs and not esp I dont think this happens. As far as I know, these cars are all pre-98 with FBS2 key and not the fully electronic FBS3 key. I have an ongoing project with a w201 with complete driveline from a w202.128(om605, 722.6) except for the abs. The idea is to have a daily driver with 5speed auto, ok power and diagnostics.

Seanyt: I may contact you a little later on in my project about remapping the om605 ecu....

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 11-02-2015

IIRC all OM606 are FBS3... Sad or not - it's too much for me to handle, i got a bit over-excited there. I'm a simple panel beater, not a brilliant rocket scientist Big Grin

And then there's that mentioned time-issue...

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 11-15-2015

So, started on the new radiator hoop. Had to flip the bottom piece once, due to measuring error (rad mounts are not centered but slightly off-set) and then my helmet broke and I ran out of rust free stock radiator mounts. The idea was to integrate the old mounts into a new hoop ala 500E. This makes it easy to re-attach the engine cover and keep the replaceable clips. And it sort of is the closest to a "factory solution". It may look a bit under-sized, but that hoop is sturdy as fuck! Flat-oval pipe is strong.

[Image: tr%C3%A4ger-2.jpg]

I will also tie in the oil-cooler mount and intercooler-mount. It all lines up fairly nicely. With a bit of bracing to the frame rails it'll be able to withstand some impact force (it's the lowest part of the car and right up on the front) it it needs to.

The solution on the Taxi is even better, though... Genuine factory steel sump guard!

[Image: unterfahrschutz-taxi.jpg]

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - Tobulus - 11-15-2015

That looks really great, really factory quality! So it fits behind the bumper without problems? Do you have air condition?

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 11-15-2015

Hi! Thanks a lot! Yes, A/C condenser is in place. Need to make some tiny brackets to fix to the new hoop. As you can see in post #61, it is fucking tight behind the bumper, I think that's about the biggest IC that can be fitted with AC, stock bumper and without cutting away the crossmember...

[Image: llk-8.jpg]

Twin-fans also fit, the big single fan doesn't fit anymore... But will require different condenser (for cars w. twin-fan) & power steering cooling snail...

[Image: llk-111.jpg]

The drawback is that this leaves no "crumble zone" for the IC... If I bump into something, the IC get's it Big Grin

I might build a steel sump guard at one point. On the other hand I don't plan to go off-road with this car. It's a concern, though. But the main thing is: it is large-ish, and it fits without hacked apart or stupid looking aftermarket bumper Smile

Oh, current weight of the new radiator mount is about 1100 grammes! That's pretty light.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - Tobulus - 11-15-2015

One shouldnt bump into anything with the aircon-bumper. Those became expensive the last years

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 11-15-2015

Even worse: I need a series 1 turbo-bumper ;-)

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - maxypriest - 11-15-2015

(10-28-2015, 01:07 PM)MrWolf maybe that knocking in the taxi are just the engine mounts, it's an easy to check thing and when the mounts are without oil you can feel a knock from 2000 rpm when stop accelerating.
I loved the idea of the electronic om606 because of the economical compaired to an adapted mechanical pump. A friend of mine addapted the electronic key to a w201 190, and that's interesting because you can use the electronic pump without needing to quit the elecronic inmo (antithief), but of course the limp mode is sooo bad and problematic in old cars with old pipes, I understand your decission.
P.D. Sorry for my bad english, I'm used to read but no so used to post

my w124 dieselmeken 8.00 mm hx40 606 setup is better on fuel than my bog standard w210 with edc pump.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - MrWolf - 11-16-2015

I know a mechanical pump with dieselmeken preparation is better maxy, but I think is expensive for a non super turbo swap. For a super turbo swap like yours it's perfect

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - maxypriest - 11-16-2015

(11-16-2015, 06:02 AM)MrWolf I know a mechanical pump with dieselmeken preparation is better maxy, but I think is expensive for a non super turbo swap. For a super turbo swap like yours it's perfect

Agreed – however I bet a ‘turned down’ 7mm superpump would perk it up – tis expensive as you say.
Sorry – not hijacking this wonderful thread!

Quick note - Normal driving (steady) often results in 38mpg UK / 31mpg US /7.44ltr-100Km, which I personally think is phenomenal.
I’m thinking of fitting a valve between the plenum take off and the boost actuator on the fuel pump so that the full fuel is only available when you switch it on to avoid unintentional coal rolling in day to day accelerations. I.e. a ‘turbo diesel’ to ‘superturbodiesel’ switch.

Yesterday I was out and in front of a new Mini, I just wanted to shoot off as the person in front turned off the road, however I unintentionally rolled coal on him. I have to add that I’m chasing a boost reduction issue – was 2.8 bar, currently 1.6 for some reason – but that’s another story…

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 11-17-2015

On my daily commute this car always got me milage below 7l/100km Smile

And to keep the engine cool, I forked out for this...

[Image: wapu_72mm-2.jpg]

I'm too having thoughts about a pump with bigger elements. But not so much for power, but smooth power delivery and torque/economy. What I don't want is an engine that blows smoke - it has to be clean throughout. Smoke is just wasted fuel...

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - maxypriest - 11-19-2015

(11-17-2015, 01:59 AM)DiseaselWeasel On my daily commute this car always got me milage below 7l/100km

And to keep the engine cool, I forked out for this...

I'm too having thoughts about a pump with bigger elements. But not so much for power, but smooth power delivery and torque/economy. What I don't want is an engine that blows smoke - it has to be clean throughout. Smoke is just wasted fuel...

“I'm too having thoughts about a pump with bigger elements. But not so much for power, but smooth power delivery and torque/economy. What I don't want is an engine that blows smoke - it has to be clean throughout. Smoke is just wasted fuel...”

I’m fitting a boost alda cut-off valve to my w124. I have tried running the car with the extra boost actuated fuelling disabled and it works an absolute treat, lots of smoke free power. There is an initial puff as the fuel overtakes the turbo when you first apply throttle, however it very soon runs without any smoke whatsoever and the bum dyno indicates is must be pumping late 200’s in bhp. I really don’t like rolling coal accidentally and this feature has that sorted.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 04-10-2016

So, it's getting warmer, time to take action.

Big water pump & smal pulley...

[Image: kopf-7.jpg]

Installed #22 cylinder head

[Image: kopf-34.jpg]

Started to machine some adapters to make a heater bypass...

[Image: stutzen-4.jpg]

Also machined some rollers for a pipe bender.

[Image: rohr-7.jpg]

Which I used to repair the oil cooler mount I cut off for the intercooler installation.

[Image: llk-38.jpg]

And made some brackets to hold the condenser for the AC

[Image: llk-37.jpg]

And I chnaged my plans again - I'm shooting for a water cooled chargecooler. The air/air cooler is just too big and unflexible. An a/w cooler is more complex as far as plumbing is concerned, but I have more freedom to position it.

[Image: llk-wk-2.jpg]

This is off a W220 S400 CDI and fits quite well, but I have to modify the oil cooler duct a little. Fibreglas ordered for this task.

As for the chargecooler itself, I have some options.

Either the AMG option:

[Image: amg-2.jpg]

Or the G-Wagon G270 CDI option:

[Image: g270cdi-wllk.jpg]

But most probably I'm going to custom build something that fits the requirements. Will look into possible donors for a core or a custom made core. I like the design of the AMG chargecooler, so I will probably use this as a template. But for now, the first thing is to get new TÜV and make it driveable again. It's itching badly, the n/a 603 is just so slow, I need to drive a Turbodiesel for a bit again.

Also made a short video. The engine also got a new radiator and a set of rebuild injectors (not ran much yet, problably still some dirt or air inside hence the harsh noise).

That's all, thanks for watching.

RE: C124 300 turbodiesel #2 - DiseaselWeasel - 05-14-2016

Finished the bypass adapters...

[Image: adapter-3.jpg]

Flared some 3/8" copper pipe with a very ghetto flaring die & punch Big Grin

And now I have a 7.5mm bypass to the heater core. The washer fluid heater is Td in parallel to the bypass. Red = cylinder head outlet to heater, red/blue dots washer fluid heater inlet/outlet, green bypass, blue arrow bypass/washer fluid heater return to join heater outlet to water pump.

[Image: bypass-schema2.jpg]

The bypass get's hot pretty quick, so I guess it's working well. If desired, I could increase it's size. I have now got hold of the original water pipe for the washer fluid return, which is 12mm inner diameter. I will probably swap this for the copper pipe, I fear the copper may break over time (vibrations). But as a proof of concept - it seems to work. I have also kept the original 4.75mm ventilation hard line runing across the firewall, giving me about 8-9mm cross section of heater core bypass. So far it doesn't seem to rob too much flow from the heater.

Put the car together, replaced all the injection line plastic clips and it's ready für TÜV. Well, almost. There's still that little hurdle to overcome with wheels. They don't want to accept 215/55 tyres on a 8" wheel. And I need to find a lot more paper work to convince the engineer that it is safe to run R129 brakes in a C124. But biggest problem for him is the tyres on 8" wheel...

[Image: fertig-2.jpg]

And cleaned up the mess in the garage, now I can work with closed doors on this thing Big Grin