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+--- Thread: OM617 MW pump experiment (/showthread.php?tid=5461)
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - kestreltom - 04-13-2014
(04-13-2014, 11:20 AM)OM616 LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that weren't so funny it would be an insult lol...
That was optimism speaking... Ok, Ok it was funny too.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 04-14-2014
No, Im not insulted, not yet anyway, but for 800 buck I rather do something else than trying to sort this out.
Im having a request at the factory that makes my elements now for the 8 mm MW, If I can get it down in cost maybee Im game on.
It seems to me that this old OM617A is popular in other applications than in old W123 cars, That for me is great news, I didnt know that, maybee there is a market for this Product then
I will do this pump complete an try it out, Ofcourse you guys at superturbodiesel get the news first of all.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - MFSuper90 - 04-14-2014
The om617 is a popular swap into non diesel vehicles here in the United States because it is a cheap, plentiful, and reliable. A good 617 can be found here for $500, while a 60x seem near impossible to find.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - 300SD_KY - 04-14-2014
(04-14-2014, 01:19 AM)dieselmeken No, Im not insulted, not yet anyway, but for 800 buck I rather do something else than trying to sort this out.
Im having a request at the factory that makes my elements now for the 8 mm MW, If I can get it down in cost maybee Im game on.
It seems to me that this old OM617A is popular in other applications than in old W123 cars, That for me is great news, I didnt know that, maybee there is a market for this Product then
I will do this pump complete an try it out, Ofcourse you guys at superturbodiesel get the news first of all.
Goran, tell me what is a fair price for the MW with 8MM elements? Would it cost the same price as the super Dieselmeken M-pump? ... i am guessing that 8MM elements might be too much fuel for a 617 turbo-diesel like my 300SD, based on the experience of others. But, i could be wrong.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - yankneck696 - 04-14-2014
A "Fair price" is all relative to:
1. Scarcity of a mechanical M pump for us to send & you having to source one for us.
2. Labor
3. Parts
4. R&D
5. General overhead
6. Most important is enough profit to make it worthwhile for you "To do the voo-doo that you do"...
Ed
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - 85-300D - 04-14-2014
I would be interested in a "parts only" cost as well, just as an option. As long as it would be something that an experienced MW pump builder could put together without any issues.
As far as what I would be willing to pay: I would be willing to pay a "fair" price on the parts, plus the time that you have into them for modifications. Like most people I don't have a lot of extra money, but I also realize that you have a business to as well, and bills to pay. I do appreciate the time and energy that you have put into this project!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - huseyin55amg - 04-15-2014
hi goran. you know I have an American spec 617a coming to Cyprus next month. it will go into my 79 G wagen. maybe all this fuss is for me =D
rgds hus
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - yankneck696 - 04-15-2014
In all honesty, 99% of all rebuilders here are robots that will build you a stock pump with stock parts.
Ed
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - w123love - 04-16-2014
I'd be willing to pay a premium to have an MW pump modified. Couple reasons:
1. No need to source an M pump
2. No need to source M pump associated hardware
3. No configuring needed (i.e. blocking oil lines)
4. Cores are plentiful.
If this comes to fruition, wouldn't it make sense for your US pump shop to handle this business? Logistically speaking it makes sense.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - OM616 - 04-16-2014
(04-16-2014, 02:06 PM)w123love If this comes to fruition, wouldn't it make sense for your US pump shop to handle this business? Logistically speaking it makes sense.
There are currently a few pump shops that have, and or are willing to, build a custom MW pump. A few members have had made the arrangements with different shops to have theirs done, with the anticipation of more work.... However..... the only thing there has been an abundance of is people thinking this can not currently be done in the USA...lol
If there was a serious market for it, I would have gotten my set up done and be cashing in now, but that is not the case, at least from what I have found..
8mm MW and 10mm MW pumps have been done before, no mystery there.. Heck, there is a guy who is screaming that he has a 10mm MW for sale here in the USA and he can't seem to give it away lol...
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - raysorenson - 04-16-2014
With respect, Goran is very good at marketing.
If what's on TOF is true, the MW pump situation may change for the better soon.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - yankneck696 - 04-16-2014
OK, here's the plain truth... 80%+ of Mercedes diesel owners are just plain cheap.
Ed
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - kestreltom - 04-17-2014
(04-16-2014, 10:04 PM)yankneck696 OK, here's the plain truth... 80%+ of Mercedes diesel owners are just plain cheap.
Ed
I am frugal. But I am willing to say what I would pay. I will probably pay more when it comes time... as there are still lots of details to iron out. Will Goran ship "kits" to US rebuilders/owners? Do we ship our cores to him? etc... etc.
Barring ridicule, anyone else is free to say what they would pay Goran and snatch the lead from me...
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - w123love - 04-19-2014
I was under the assumption that Mr. Dieselmeken had made a connection with a US Pump builder, per this thread Superpump Builder in the USA?
(04-16-2014, 03:45 PM)OM616 There are currently a few pump shops that have, and or are willing to, build a custom MW pump. A few members have had made the arrangements with different shops to have theirs done, with the anticipation of more work.... However..... the only thing there has been an abundance of is people thinking this can not currently be done in the USA...lol
If there was a serious market for it, I would have gotten my set up done and be cashing in now, but that is not the case, at least from what I have found..
8mm MW and 10mm MW pumps have been done before, no mystery there.. Heck, there is a guy who is screaming that he has a 10mm MW for sale here in the USA and he can't seem to give it away lol...
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 04-26-2014
Update, So far, this is what I have.
30pc 8mm MW element ready for machining.
25 gasket kits PES5MW RVW on its way
20 watercut 3mm rust free plates,"top plates" on its way
Deliveryvalves from OM603
Special size O-ring is sorted
Struggling a bit with the deliveryvalve holders, Next week I shall try one idea that I have in my head.
First up will be a serie of 7 MW pumps 8mm 120cc.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - 300SD_KY - 04-26-2014
(04-26-2014, 04:29 AM)dieselmeken Update, So far, this is what I have.
30pc 8mm MW element ready for machining.
25 gasket kits PES5MW RVW on its way
20 watercut 3mm rust free plates,"top plates" on its way
Deliveryvalves from OM603
Special size O-ring is sorted
Struggling a bit with the deliveryvalve holders, Next week I shall try one idea that I have in my head.
First up will be a serie of 7 MW pumps 8mm 120cc.
Sounds freaking awesome ;-)
Göran, Have you tested the super-MW pump yet? I am wondering if it makes sense for me to exchange the super M-pump (still new in the box) + bottle of vintage Kentucky bourbon for Super MW-pump ;-)
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - JustPassinThru - 04-27-2014
(04-26-2014, 04:29 AM)dieselmeken ...First up will be a serie of 7 MW pumps 8mm 120cc...
Just to be clear: do you already *have* all the MW pumps you need for experiments? Or, would you welcome a contribution of MW pumps to the cause?
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 04-27-2014
I have got some core pumps OM617A from Norway that will be build up..
I have a testbunny in Norway that will have the first pump to test out, Its a G-wagen.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - kmaser - 04-27-2014
I would be interested in 8mm MW, I have a an MW with Tomnik's 6.5mm elements but I am thinking About going bigger and this would be perfect. Is the test G wagen using stock exhaust manifold?
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Evenglass - 05-01-2014
I've been watching this site for some time now just for this. Thank you Goran for putting your time into this, it is a dream come true for some of us. I would definitely be interested in this, but I have some questions.
1. Would this require sending the MW pump to you? If so would the pump need any special tuning when installing it back here in the states?
2 .I'm really looking for power lower in RPM would this be an appropriate upgrade?
3. Would an upgraded turbo and intercooler be absolutely necessary?
4. What would be required/involved for this upgrade?
I'm not looking for racecar like performance just a little more power 20-40hp would be great. I have the om617 turbo in a Jeep Cherokee with a Chevy 700r4 transmission. One of the biggest reasons people don't put this engine in other things is the lack of power and tune-ability but this could be a game changer. I would be more than willing to advertise for you in the 4x4 market over here if this works out.
you can see my build here;
http://www.dieselbombers.com/diesel-engine-conversions/118649-om617-96-jeep-cherokee-build-thread.html
Thank you again Goran for the time you have been putting into this let me know if there is anything I can do to help state side.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - 300SD_KY - 05-02-2014
Evenglass, a few weeks ago i bought a Super M Pump from Goran (originally from a non-Turbo 300D) ... for my 1979 turbo-charged 300SD.
the pump is still in the box ... awaiting installation from my indie mechanic.
the reason for the upgrade = more fuel delivery.
time will tell if i need a more modern turbo ... as well as a cooling solution (Banks Power Double Shot - Methanol, comes to mind) ... headers, exhaust manifold, cold air intake, 2.5" - 3" exhaust ...
right now, with upgraded Monark injectors, rebuilt turbo ... my car runs very well ... on the highway, i can cruise 90 mph on the flats all day long = 4,200 rpm ... i can chirp the tires on a dry day and spin them a little on a wet day, if i rev in neutral then switch into D.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 05-15-2014
So now Its done, My first 8mm MW for OM617A Note, This is a upgrade pump now, 100% Moore fuel. Next thing is to send this to Norway for a tryout in a G-wagen, Then if it works OK I will build up a few of these one of a kind pumps.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Simpler=Better - 05-15-2014
Göran, what is your favorite color?
Also yes, most 617 owners are cheap wads who don't want to pay to play. Some us us want to play, but don't have their projects running yet (
) But in the car world, $1200 is nothing for 150 extra HP. How much are a set of performance Chevy heads huh?!?
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - fordheaded - 05-15-2014
Now this guy DEFINITELY deserves a round of applause!!!!!! Where can I sign up for one??????
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - mantahead - 05-15-2014
Dieselmeken has done it again, nice one Goran
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Evenglass - 05-15-2014
I'm excited to hear how this is working out, I'm just not sure if this is more fuel than most 617's can handle without major mods such as larger turbo and intercooler. Personally I would be happy to pay $1000+ for more power but for my needs it would not be worth it to pay a $1000+ and than another $1000+ for upgraded turbo and intercooler.
I admit my ignorance on this subject and am humbled by those on this forum that know much more about this than me, please chime in and let me know what you think regarding the minimal requirements to run with 100% more fuel. Will this be possible with only stock parts? (besides the upgraded pump).
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - MFSuper90 - 05-16-2014
The larger elements in the pump will provide quicker injection, cutting down on duration, therefore increasing power even at the same flow rate.
What I am trying to say is, if you don't want to upgrade turbo, intercooler, head, etc, I am sure he could set the fuel for you to slightly above stock, or whatever the stock turbo can handle, and your 617 will still have WAYY more power than the stock pump could even think of producing.
I don't mean to speak for Goran, so hopefully he can confirm what I am saying or correct me
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 05-16-2014
(05-16-2014, 07:20 AM)MFSuper90 The larger elements in the pump will provide quicker injection, cutting down on duration, therefore increasing power even at the same flow rate.Thats correct, pump did 105cc with no adjusting on the governor, Max rack is 14,0mm, There is a possibility to go up to 16,0mm and 120cc Over that the slot for Cold start gets in and puts ignition 6-8 degrees later and that is something you dont want to happen at full load. To adjust max fuel output, just make the pump to not go 100% throttle, quite easy to do.
What I am trying to say is, if you don't want to upgrade turbo, intercooler, head, etc, I am sure he could set the fuel for you to slightly above stock, or whatever the stock turbo can handle, and your 617 will still have WAYY more power than the stock pump could even think of producing.
I don't mean to speak for Goran, so hopefully he can confirm what I am saying or correct me
Pump is now on its way to Norway, Thursday next week hopfully it will be fired up. THIS IS FUN :-)
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Evenglass - 05-16-2014
(05-16-2014, 08:33 AM)dieselmeken(05-16-2014, 07:20 AM)MFSuper90 The larger elements in the pump will provide quicker injection, cutting down on duration, therefore increasing power even at the same flow rate.Thats correct, pump did 105cc with no adjusting on the governor, Max rack is 14,0mm, There is a possibility to go up to 16,0mm and 120cc Over that the slot for Cold start gets in and puts ignition 6-8 degrees later and that is something you dont want to happen at full load. To adjust max fuel output, just make the pump to not go 100% throttle, quite easy to do.
What I am trying to say is, if you don't want to upgrade turbo, intercooler, head, etc, I am sure he could set the fuel for you to slightly above stock, or whatever the stock turbo can handle, and your 617 will still have WAYY more power than the stock pump could even think of producing.
I don't mean to speak for Goran, so hopefully he can confirm what I am saying or correct me
Pump is now on its way to Norway, Thursday next week hopfully it will be fired up. THIS IS FUN :-)
This makes me smile ear to ear like its Christmas. Thank you guys for simplifying that for me. Can't wait to hear what happens in Norway!
Goran my compliments to you sir, your shop looks like an operating room.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Mudpup - 05-19-2014
With the number of folks in the US swapping these engines into offroad vehicles, I don't think you'll have any problem selling modified pumps!Waiting list?!?
Jason
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - rcmarti - 05-27-2014
Goran, what did you end up doing about the delivery valve holders? Or did you just ended up using the volvo ones?
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 05-28-2014
I did some machining on the DV holders, like this.
AND TOMORROW THE PROTOYPE IS FITTED IN nORWAY CapSLock
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - MFSuper90 - 05-28-2014
I thinks capslock was appropriate for that statement
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - rcmarti - 05-28-2014
Goran,
What abouth the delivery valves? Why did you end up using the 603´s rather than the original ones?
Thanks
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 05-28-2014
(05-28-2014, 08:17 AM)rcmarti Goran,In this pump the original valves was worn out, New one is expensive, therefore I used the 603 valve. To the rest Im planning to use the original valve from 617A, that is if its OK.
What abouth the delivery valves? Why did you end up using the 603´s rather than the original ones?
Thanks
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - cho - 05-28-2014
(05-28-2014, 08:20 AM)dieselmeken New one is expensive
yes too expensive,I called bosch guys recently and the valve per piece (without holder) was 27 eur + tax, in the US (as guys on peachparts told me) the valve is like 12 USD. much cheaper.
.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 05-30-2014
Pump is in a G-wagen now, and I got this report yesterday
35" Wheel, stock pump 0-90km/h 62sek ( 0-55mph / 62sec)
After swapping to 8,0mm MW 0-90km/h 18 sec
Nice smoot Power, Good at low idle, 1,8 bar max boost with a slight black smoke after
Automatic transmission started to slip a bit att full load.
This is OM617A Standard, no other Changes than pump.
The fastest G in Norway with one of my 140cc pumps and changed turbo is 11 sek, so I Think this is rather good.
On the negative side, After full load for a long time Engine seems to stall and stop, Dont know for the moment if its a fuel pressure issue or if its the damper screw that needs some adjusting.
Anyway, its to be sorted out.
I will soon start to build up a couple of MW 8mm thats going to be for sale, price will be around 9000SEK incl Swedish tax, ( For US customers -20% tax off) Exchange pump ( around 1100USD) + shipping cost
Expensive or fair price? You decide, I have the solution.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - kmaser - 05-30-2014
Sounds like a fair price to me, do we need to send a core to you as well?
I am very interested and then may have my MW 6.5mm pump for sale so I can have more power!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - yankneck696 - 05-30-2014
A very fair price... Try dou
Code:
bling your HP on a gasser for that amount of money...Ed
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Evenglass - 05-30-2014
(05-30-2014, 02:03 AM)dieselmeken Pump is in a G-wagen now, and I got this report yesterday
35" Wheel, stock pump 0-90km/h 62sek ( 0-55mph / 62sec)
After swapping to 8,0mm MW 0-90km/h 18 sec
Nice smoot Power, Good at low idle, 1,8 bar max boost with a slight black smoke after
Automatic transmission started to slip a bit att full load.
This is OM617A Standard, no other Changes than pump.
The fastest G in Norway with one of my 140cc pumps and changed turbo is 11 sek, so I Think this is rather good.
On the negative side, After full load for a long time Engine seems to stall and stop, Dont know for the moment if its a fuel pressure issue or if its the damper screw that needs some adjusting.
Anyway, its to be sorted out.
I will soon start to build up a couple of MW 8mm thats going to be for sale, price will be around 9000SEK incl Swedish tax, ( For US customers -20% tax off) Exchange pump ( around 1100USD) + shipping cost
Expensive or fair price? You decide, I have the solution.
Awesome news! How long before the first run of pumps are complete? What would the procedure be for sending you the core pump and shipping, payment? How would I set the timing on the new pump, 27*? retard? advance?
Sorry for all the questions.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 05-30-2014
(05-30-2014, 09:17 AM)EvenglassNo problems.(05-30-2014, 02:03 AM)dieselmeken Pump is in a G-wagen now, and I got this report yesterday
35" Wheel, stock pump 0-90km/h 62sek ( 0-55mph / 62sec)
After swapping to 8,0mm MW 0-90km/h 18 sec
Nice smoot Power, Good at low idle, 1,8 bar max boost with a slight black smoke after
Automatic transmission started to slip a bit att full load.
This is OM617A Standard, no other Changes than pump.
The fastest G in Norway with one of my 140cc pumps and changed turbo is 11 sek, so I Think this is rather good.
On the negative side, After full load for a long time Engine seems to stall and stop, Dont know for the moment if its a fuel pressure issue or if its the damper screw that needs some adjusting.
Anyway, its to be sorted out.
I will soon start to build up a couple of MW 8mm thats going to be for sale, price will be around 9000SEK incl Swedish tax, ( For US customers -20% tax off) Exchange pump ( around 1100USD) + shipping cost
Expensive or fair price? You decide, I have the solution.
Awesome news! How long before the first run of pumps are complete? What would the procedure be for sending you the core pump and shipping, payment? How would I set the timing on the new pump, 27*? retard? advance?
Sorry for all the questions.
2-3 weeks Before I have it ready, remember, this is a side Project, I have alot of other work that comes in first hand.
Yes I have pumps so I ship them, but I need a core back. Timing on these is set to 17-19 BTDC ad it works OK
No problems with high temperature etc.
First pump ran 5 hours today, a small oilleak from the stop was one issue, Another is that the Engine will stall warm, but as a tryout they adjust the damper capsule 1/4 turn CW. If it dont work pump will come back to me, But the guy that drives the G say to me that I never gonna get it back!!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - winmutt - 05-30-2014
LOL @ GD guy... Vids!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - semo - 05-31-2014
Awsome! I'm excited to hear about the success! I've got the om617 in a 1997 jeep wrangler and I could definitely use more fuel! I'll be following closely to see that the bugs get worked out and then count me in! I think 1100 USD is a fair price. Count me in!
Also, I don't know if you've considered accepting bitcoin as payment but it would really simplify transactions from us here in the USA (IMHO) So if that is an option let me know!!!
I've got two extra MW pumps so if the first one works out well I'll probably have another for you!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - curt5446 - 06-01-2014
I see one of these in my future. Might give lgreeley83 a run for his money. :-)
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - 85-300D - 06-27-2014
Any updates on this project? You got us all excited and now we don't have any more results!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - MFSuper90 - 06-28-2014
(06-27-2014, 05:36 PM)85-300D Any updates on this project? You got us all excited and now we don't have any more results!
This is just a side project for him, not his main priority right now I bet, but he has come along very quickly on it for it being a side project!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - needamerc - 06-28-2014
This is probably a stupid question but would there be any point fitting this pump to an OM617NA (with aftermarket Garrett turbo already fitted) or would it just be pointless?
Eddie.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - dieselmeken - 06-29-2014
(06-28-2014, 07:52 AM)MFSuper90Thanks for your understanding. No updates so far.(06-27-2014, 05:36 PM)85-300D Any updates on this project? You got us all excited and now we don't have any more results!
This is just a side project for him, not his main priority right now I bet, but he has come along very quickly on it for it being a side project!
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - Evenglass - 06-29-2014
(06-29-2014, 09:32 AM)dieselmekenThanks for your understanding. No updates so far.(06-28-2014, 07:52 AM)MFSuper90 [quote='85-300D' pid='64693' dateline='1403908617']
Any updates on this project? You got us all excited and now we don't have any more results!
This is just a side project for him, not his main priority right now I bet, but he has come along very quickly on it for it being a side project!
[/quote
I'm not sure how many of these pumps you are going to produce but please keep me in mind for one of them.
Enjoy your vacation Goran! looks like you've been very busy.
RE: OM617 MW pump experiment - masterstill - 07-24-2014
I will take one also please. I'm a serious buyer .
Thanks for all the hard work