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+--- Thread: 722.6 w210 stall speed (/showthread.php?tid=8120)
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RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - 50harleyrider - 01-05-2019
Yours and my conversions are almost identical so i'm relying on your experiemce before I get another tc. Which brand did you use? Should I talk to them and get another tc or have them modify the Hughes Performance diesel tc I've already sunk a ton of money into?
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - 50harleyrider - 01-05-2019
SilveradoOM606, Your and my conversions are almost identical except for truck brand, so i'm relying on your experiemce before I get another tc. Which brand did you use? Should I talk to them and get another tc or have them modify the 1200 stall Hughes Performance diesel tc I've already sunk a ton of money into?
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - SilveradOM606 - 01-05-2019
I would really hate to misslead you, although I have gone through a lot and have come to what I think are informed conclusions by now. Something else I will point out is that the input others gave here related to other factors is consistent with what I experienced (I’ll get to this later).
As I said in my last post, the 1600 worked perfect for me. However, mine’s still a gas version. I have abused it plenty amd it works just fine. And I did not go with any special brand. I simply went to the first shop around the block to have them rebuild the stock (Chevy) TC that came with my 4L60E transmission. There really isn’t rocket science in rebuilding them, which is why it’s so cheap now a days. Which makes me think that you have spent way too much for little “added” benefit. I think that our project scope (daily driving) does not demand lots of money into the TC.
Now getting back to other factors, I conclude that the reason initially a 1300 and even a 1600 felt too low for me was that I was using a mechanical 6mm pump that wasn’t giving me much; I kept changing turbos and TC’s getting very little benefit. Finally once I switched to EDC pump and DSL1, I saw a major improvement. Check this though, with that improvement, even my 1300 TC did not feel to be so bad. At that point I tried the 2200 which was way too high (perps with the mechanical pump it may have felt right). I then went back to the 1600 which I think it’s perfect. My point with this is that pump, fueling, turbo, gear ratio all seem to dictate the right stall for you. I feel that if you’re tuned right and have the right gear ratio, a 1600 (give, take) should work for you. And I don’t see much need to spend an arm and a leg. I’m sure a diesel version would be better although the gas one has worked fine for me.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - AlanMcR - 01-05-2019
What are your ratios? revs at 60?
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - jav1 - 01-05-2019
2100 stall feels perfect on my truck (i'm a bit heavier and 4x4). 2000 RPM = 70 MPH. In fact 2000 RPM seems to be actual achieved stall speed since whenever I get on the gas from a stand still, the engine jumps to 2000 RPM and the truck just goes. If i cruise- light throttle at 45 MPH i get 4th gear- TC lock and around 1200 RPM.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - 50harleyrider - 01-05-2019
jav1, glad to hear you've driven your conversion enough to get lockup in 4th and that the gas tc is holding up. I'm sure it would be more cost effective for me to go ahead and buy an oe gasser tc for mine rather than getting the expensive Hughes diesel one I bought modded up to 2000 stall. Hughes performance won't even discuss doing that so I would have to enlist FTI or someone else to do it. Changing it out on a 97 F150 4x4 is a bear of a job even with a lift as I have that bloody cross member for the front torsion bars to wrestle the transfer case over. That's why I want to get it right the THIRD time. Mine also launched nicely with the oe tc when I first got it running. Should have stayed with it.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - jav1 - 01-05-2019
I've been daily driving it for 2 weeks now... about 600 miles and no complaints at all about the torque converter. Time will tell if it holds up. My trans temps are running a little high but I'm doing a little digging on that.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - SilveradOM606 - 01-05-2019
I spin about 1750 rpm at 60mph, a bit low. My trans temp won’t go over 160 F at the most now in winter.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - AlanMcR - 01-05-2019
(01-05-2019, 09:15 PM)SilveradOM606 I spin about 1750 rpm at 60mph, a bit low. My trans temp won’t go over 160 F at the most now in winter.
That is quite low. On all applications of the OM606 that I know of, the factory chose 2500~2700 rpm at 60. Might want to lock out 5th for day to day use.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - SilveradOM606 - 01-06-2019
I agree. I realized just recently, my stand alone unit giving me rpm signal was deceiving me.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - jav1 - 01-06-2019
Curious as to why that RPM would be too low? I ask because I've driven mine with OD locked out and I do establish TC lock in 3rd with the RPM at around 2600 and it doesn't feel right in my truck.....the engine feels on edge, nervous, and twitchy in response to minuscule throttle pedal movements, Where in 4th w/tc locked, the engine feels stable and relaxed. It still responds instantly to the throttle but the feel is much more pleasant and as I would expect.
I don't see a downside the lower RPM. I have my truck gauged to the max including , oil temp. oil pressure, egt, boost, trans temp.... I see nothing in the gauges to suggest the engine is lugging at this RPM? I suppose if it were a manual transmission, perhaps ...but with the auto, as soon as you ask for acceleration, my TC unlocks and/or a downshift occurs and RPM's instantly climb so I don't see cause for concern and much prefer the feel at the lower cruise RPM.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - SilveradOM606 - 01-06-2019
I’m currently cruising 70mph at 2000 rpm with 3.73 ratio, 30.5” tires, and 0.7 in 4th gear (only have 4 gears). That to me is a bit low even with my light, fairly aerodynamic truck. I’m considering a 4.10 rear end which should be easy to find and would increase my rpm at 70mph to 2250, not sure if that will suffice. At higher rpm it would be more responsive. Btw, downshifting to 3rd the rpm jumps to 3000, making it more responsive and taking far less throttle—not a bad alternative to climb steep highway slopes maintaining 70. Ultimately I want to target the 70mph rpm that will optimize fuel economy, and someone quite acquainted with the 606 indicated that the fuel-efficient window is around 2200 rpm.
When I initially started the project I intended to match the W210/E300 rpm at highway speeds, or higher to compensate for the drag-coeficient increment. However, my current 2000 rpm at 70 really isn’t that bad, again, I may just raise it a bit with higher rear end.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - 50harleyrider - 01-11-2019
I talked with the guys at FTI and was told my application is more or less a unique one off and they didn't sound very interested in my application except to recommend I send my TC to them and for $350-$550 plus shipping they would try to get the 1800 stall speed I want. Yeah right. I believe I'm going back to the oem gas TC that came on my 5.4 and E4OD. It was no problem off the line when I originally did my conversion with the stock waste gated turbo and I guess i'll just have to wait and see how it holds up. My truck will not see more than 7000 lb towing and for sure won't get abused. It has the oe tow package so overheating the tranny shouldn't be a problem.
RE: 722.6 w210 stall speed - jav1 - 01-11-2019
You know my opinion. Time will tell if it's the right one but it sure feels correct. I towed with mine last week (only about 3000#) but no issues.