Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build

Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Printable Version

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RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 01-16-2013

I would just clean, preheat (with the benz-o-matic) and paint it on thick.

TELL ME MORE ABOUT YOUR OIL FILTER! Is that a stock housing modified to take a spin-on filter?

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 01-16-2013

(01-16-2013, 12:48 PM)Simpler=Better I would just clean, preheat (with the benz-o-matic) and paint it on thick.

TELL ME MORE ABOUT YOUR OIL FILTER! Is that a stock housing modified to take a spin-on filter?

are you talking about the one in post #85? OM616 is responsible for that one. Big Grin

Its pretty nice, I think he has a thread on that somewhere on PP

Im going a different route, a pretty standard remote oil filter plate. I had a bunch of these JIC fittings left over from a job, so I ground a pair of them down to make a weldable fitting-

[Image: 0012-1.jpg]

plate fitting on the motor- (just capping over the drain back hole on the bottom as more trouble than its worth)

[Image: 003-2.jpg]

and bungs welded to the plate- some fitting left to do with a dremel to make sure I have a nice flowing hole-

[Image: 020-1.jpg]

This will go to a moroso head that will be locate approximately where the astro stock fuel filter or automatic transmission shift brace is

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 01-17-2013

got a plan on the steering problem, the simplicity of which im amazed it hadn't occurred to me already. Thanks to internet forum input again. Big Grin

An astro guy suggested a really simple fix, why not do a body lift off the subframe, and make the distance of the lift exactly the distance the engine needs to come up to clear the steering bars?

I could raise the entire body off the subframe by 2 inches or whatever I need, fabricate motor mounts to hold the engine that much higher, and clear the steering completely with the lower oil pan. All id have to do is extend the steering shaft to reach the gearbox, which is a common enough solution that I might be able to do it with already available aftermarket parts.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 01-31-2013

couple small setbacks, but maybe with a silver lining. Ive been busily plugging away at disassembling, cleaning, and trying to recover as many bits off the stock suspension I can.

The original plan was to do all new control arm bushings, ball joints, ect.

I had removed dropped off 4 upper control arms (off two vans) and one of the lower control arms so far to be sandblasted. Was still working on the extremely bad driver side lower control arm bushings off the 89.

Powdercoater called and said of the 4 uppers, he thinks only one is worth coating, so much rust flaked away that he thinks 3 at least are paper thin if I were to sandblast them all completely. He did a couple sample areas.

Meanwhile, in trying to press out one of the bushings on the lower control arm im still screwing with, the rust was bad enough that I managed to crunch the whole dam thing, splitting the entire area I was trying to press the bushing out of. Its ruined. Pic-

[Image: 0012-3.jpg]

so, in the end, I have a rusty passenger upper control arm, and a rustier passenger lower control arm, out of 6 (actually 8, two lowers off parts van were scrapped, too rusty) originally.

Went on the internet, and discovered I can get brand new upper and lower control arms for about 100 bucks a pop that fit this van, so gonna do that. Come with ball joints and bushings installed. Love working with domestic common stuff. Big Grin

Also have to get a replacement sway bar, original is strangely cracked on both sides lengthwise. 100 bucks brand new also, comes with links and mounts.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 02-14-2013

some updates-

Received my new control arms, and ive reassembled the entire suspension with a lot of new parts.

I got the upper control arms from mevotech, and the ball joints were questionable, so I swapped them with moog, and lower control arms from dorman, which looked pretty good.

some pics of assembly-

new control arms-

[Image: 002_zpsef9dfa66.jpg]

using a ratchet strap and spring compressor to bring the control arms together to bolt in the knuckle-

[Image: 0032_zps538b8301.jpg]

assembled with steering and sway bar-

[Image: 010_zps2f7f6606.jpg]

close up of steering in relation to the cutout on the subframe-

[Image: 008_zpsb25d7f51.jpg]

so now using that metal bar in the above pic to establish a centerline, ive got some numbers to work with.
This is the principle issue. The 616 is a grand total of 27 inches tall, oil pan to valve cover and the valve cover itself is a whopping 6 inches tall. Playing with it, Im going with 6 inches above as a minimum clearance, that way I can lift the entire thing straight up to do valve adjustments.

[Image: 009_zps24657e12.jpg]

Measuring up, I have a ballpark measurement of about 24 inches from the subframe up to the top of the engine compartment, including about 1 inch of stock bushing. Below the centerline, I have about 5 inches of space before interfering with the stock steering apparatus.

So basically using the 5 inches as a locked in point to use the stock steering linkage, if I installed the engine with the stock subframe bushings and no body lift, im looking at a total space allowance of 29 inches, and only 2 inches of clearance above, which would never work. The engine would fit, but I wouldn't be able to service it.
with a 2 inch lift, total space would be 31 inches, and 4 inches of clearance
3 inch lift, total space 32 inches and 5 inch clearance
4 inch lift, total space is 33 inches, and would give me the 6 inches above clearance.

So my plan now is to go with huge 4 inch subframe spacers, and compensate on the super elevated ride height by cutting down the springs by 2-3 inches or so to drop the van back down to close to normal. This way I get a little bit of lift overall from the outside, but the larger dimension I need inside the engine compartment. what do you all think? It will be kind of weird, as ill be lowering the van at the same time as raising it, but theoretically, it should work. This leaves me with extending the steering shaft in some way as my principle remaining steering issue.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - aaa - 02-15-2013

Is cutting the valve cover in two possible?

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 02-15-2013

First of all, you need to see a psychiatrist about your suicidal tendencies aka the spring compression method :p

I'm assuming the engine sticks into the cab. Can you cut out the god house/firewall more? If it's just in the engine bay, can you run a reverse hood scoop?

The body lift is nice and simple, but this thing's going to be way up in the air with 4" of lift Big Grin

(Looks cool but might corner a little squirrely)

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 02-15-2013

(02-15-2013, 09:27 AM)aaa Is cutting the valve cover in two possible?

Like a clamshell? I was thinking about that, but awesomely, raising the engine way up allows me to use MB stock motor mounts again, so the body lift might simplify the motor mount and shock situation.

Also, Ive just found the perfect things to use for the body lift. pics later Big Grin

(02-15-2013, 10:07 AM)Simpler=Better First of all, you need to see a psychiatrist about your suicidal tendencies aka the spring compression method :p

I'm assuming the engine sticks into the cab. Can you cut out the god house/firewall more? If it's just in the engine bay, can you run a reverse hood scoop?

The body lift is nice and simple, but this thing's going to be way up in the air with 4" of lift (Looks cool but might corner a little squirrely)

it was reasonably safe, I assure you! Big Grin

Theres an official MB spring compressor holding the spring in place you can see, the ratchet strap was useful to pull the upper control arm into place, it wasn't taking any spring load.

The engine actually fits stock, but ill never get the valve cover off, so this is about valve adjustments long term when I start using this thing for work.
You missed the beauty of my plan! a 4" body lift, and 3" spring chop to compensate, to give me an overall outside lift of 1 inch to get the ride height about correct.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 02-15-2013

Ah, I missed the spring chop. I'm all for a crazy lifted van don't get me wrong, just trying to poke holes before you flip it Big Grin

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 02-15-2013

(02-15-2013, 11:17 AM)Simpler=Better Ah, I missed the spring chop. I'm all for a crazy lifted van don't get me wrong, just trying to poke holes before you flip it

there are drop spindles also that will fit this van. How about a body lift and drop spindles on the same chassis. Big Grin

As the girlfriend has pointed out, all this work, and in the end it will still be a tired beat looking old minivan. Tongue

EDIT-
here is what I might use for spacers. 6 pallet jack front wheels would make perfect 3.5 inch spacers for the subframe. They are constructed of 1/2 inch cast iron with a 1/2 inch hard plastic outer cover, and they have provisions for bearing stops, so I was going to glue in some fender washers like in pic #2, and they would be centered around the bolt
The big question is shearing force on the bolts. Im reading on astro forums about what people have encountered. I won't be going off road, and two of my bolts are huge, the center ones, but I will have to see. Other options are to weld on a pipe spacer and use the stock bolts

[Image: 0012_zps9410a956.jpg]

with a fender washer dropped in the bearing hole, fits almost perfectly, just needs to be enlarged for the bolt-

[Image: 002_zps367a29a0.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 02-15-2013

Just use big bolts and the shear shouldn't be too terrible. At long as the spacers themselves have a wide seating area.

Beat ass old van? Want it to be awesome? Paint it like Kreiger's van:

[Image: Vanispheres.JPG]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 02-15-2013

(02-15-2013, 12:44 PM)Simpler=Better Just use big bolts and the shear shouldn't be too terrible. At long as the spacers themselves have a wide seating area.

Beat ass old van? Want it to be awesome? Paint it like Kreiger's van:

hahaha
nice. Wouldn't fly as a professional work van though. Big Grin

one of those full size vans in the painting will be where I source an extended steering column though, with the body lift.

Heres what the subframe bolts look like. I had to special order the center two for $$$, but the other 4 were aftermarket. I can't change the size of the bolts unless I cut into the body and replace the nuts on the inside of a solid frame member. I was surprised, they are totally inaccessible where they are, god forbid one ever gets stripped out.

Mounts and body bolts-

[Image: 0012-2.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 02-15-2013

McMaster carr will have all the bolts you have ever dreamed of, and more.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 02-15-2013

(02-15-2013, 03:42 PM)Simpler=Better McMaster carr will have all the bolts you have ever dreamed of, and more.

edit, I should have said I can't change the diameter of the bolts. Have 6 on order on the way that should work.

However, been researching what seems to be a much better method, a pipe lift.

Basically this involves cutting 6 sections of 4 inch pipe to the desired height, welding them to the subframe in the mount locations, and welding a cap on top the right size for the stock mounts, then just bolting them up using the stock hardware. That looks like the best option

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 03-15-2013

so some small updates-

for the pipe lift, I decided things would be way easier cutting if I did square pipe, so I used some 4 inch square instead. Just have to finish welding it up, but everything is tacked.

sizing the square stuff, went with a 3.5 lift-

[Image: 0022_zpsf4e5860d.jpg]

everything tacked, hopefully get it welded this weekend-

[Image: 005_zps2f6d058b.jpg]

a great development of raising the motor up that far is I think I can use the stock MB engine mount arms and mounts, with the built in provision for the shock instead of having to fab that up. Working on a few adapter pieces of steel to mount the shocks to the frame.

Meanwhile, ive got the body back down near the ground and ive been stripping out all the A/C stuff and other gasoline incidental stuff, like the ECU ect. The plan is to get the clutch pedal in, pivot worked out, and be ready to do the hydraulics as soon as the subframe is mated back to the engine.
taking some time, but slowly coming along.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 03-21-2013

subframe is welded up, ready to be refinished.

[Image: 001_zps1f6c26c2.jpg]

into the cabin, pleasantly, GM left some location evidence for the stick-

[Image: 002-1_zps07cabadf.jpg]

In sourcing the 5-speed, the guy also sent me some unobtanium stuff like the stock shift boot and some trim and sound insulation pieces, cut out the stick location-

[Image: 004-2_zps653a871a.jpg]

Meanwhile ive been playing with the clutch issues. I do have a stock clutch pedal that will supposedly fit under the dash. The problem with this is that the firewall and pivot points were reinforced on the 5-speed optioned vans, and id have to reinforce the firewall on this van.
Ive learned that the firewall apparently flexes on application of the clutch if it isn't reinforced.
At the same time, I have to drill out some totally inaccessible horizontal holes and get some unobtanium bushings to fit so the stock clutch pedal will pivot.
Instead of all this, im thinking of going with a floor mount pedal similar to this-
[Image: WIL-340-1289_JM_zpsaff56df7.jpg]

[Image: WIL-340-1289_JM_zpsaff56df7.jpg]

to mount it flat, im thinking of fabrication a mount position for it like this-

[Image: 007-1_zps67215797.jpg]

some wiring stuff im looking into to now. The ECM for this van is on the passenger side kick panel area-

[Image: 010_zps3cafe307.jpg]

in the engine compartment, this whole bundle of wires at position 2 goes only to the ECM, except one which controls the door switch on the passenger door. Im going to get rid of everything apart from that one wire.
At position 1, I have the correct plug that screws in, so from there I can run my relevant wires to the diesel setup and make it look factory

[Image: 011-1_zps92fbd8a4.jpg]

Over on the drivers side, there is this control box which apparently controls only a brake proportioning valve, and the variable wipers. Im hoping that it doesn't need the ECM for any reason, and i can just give it 12 volts to continue working correctly. Ive been looking in yards for something from a similar year astro, there are no identifying numbers left on this thing

[Image: 008_zps27b103ca.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-04-2013

So the clutch pedal is just about resolved, some final welding to do once I have the right angle, but it hangs in the correct area finally-
from the outside, this is where the slave is supposed to poke through on vans that had this option in this body style-

[Image: 001_zps8d816f03.jpg]

after drilling a bunch of little holes and carefully working with the hacksaw and dremel, the hole was finally cleaned up-

[Image: 004-2_zpse6dc6340.jpg]

this is a stock master cylinder for a 1990 astro RS, bought from autozone. They looked up the truck for me just using that info, and came up with this-

[Image: 0032-2_zpsdf6bb00d.jpg]

mounted outside and inside-

[Image: 007-1_zps20b2a750.jpg]

drilling some horizontal holes in this tiny inaccessible area was not really possible, at least for me, and I decided to instead cut a slot, build a pivot, and weld it up when I had it fitted properly.
this is where the hole is supposed to be i think, matches on both sides with this weird little curve-

[Image: 0102-1_zps48d95e35.jpg]

I notched out that whole area on both sides- (not the cleanest cut in the world, but ill dress it up before I weld.

[Image: 014-1_zps1c338816.jpg]

meanwhile with the pedal I made this little pivot piece with a couple ears for welding-

[Image: 015-1_zps74cec50a.jpg]

fitted it lines up pretty well, now to weld it in-

[Image: 017-1_zpsf6fcc184.jpg]

overall, this was a huge pain in the ass. Pics later once its permanently affixed

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 04-05-2013

Great work arounds son far. Nicely done!

Regarding that clutch pedal, was there enough room to fit in a Mercedes pedal with the incorporated clutch master cylinder? You'd just have to tap into one of the brake fluid reservoir.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-05-2013

the steering column (removed in these pics) takes up a ton of room, I doubt I could have used the mercedes pedal without some serious cutting and at least moving the fuse panel.

One thing I don't like about this pedal is it has no spring assist as part of it like the MB stuff, and like VW stuff I also have

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 04-05-2013

Lookin' good!

(04-05-2013, 07:59 AM)JB3 One thing I don't like about this pedal is it has no spring assist as part of it like the MB stuff, and like VW stuff I also have

Yup, that's a domestic truck for you Smile

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Ksteen2 - 04-05-2013

hi, I wounder, propobly like many others, why the 616 and not a 617-605 or 606?? ;o

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-05-2013

(04-05-2013, 09:04 AM)Ksteen2 hi, I wounder, propobly like many others, why the 616 and not a 617-605 or 606?? ;o

fuel economy and durability are my ultimate goals, not really power, and I had a 616 motor in hand and already had done the turbo manifolds for it.

Im basically building the drivetrain to suit the work use of the vehicle, honestly, in day to day use it probably won't leave 3rd gear or top 40mph, and id love to maximize the economy for shuttling around town.

Occasionally, I need the van for highway runs or to tow trailers to different job sites, and thats why I wanted to turbo charge it to give it a little more power to handle these needs.

However, having said all that, a 617 would match much more correctly the stock engine that was in this vehicle, and if I were to do the project again, id use a 5cyl motor from the start.

Im not familiar with the 605-606 motors as much, love to old iron motors, plus they are a little more forgiving on alt fuels, another long term goal

(04-05-2013, 08:10 AM)Simpler=Better Lookin' good!

(04-05-2013, 07:59 AM)JB3 One thing I don't like about this pedal is it has no spring assist as part of it like the MB stuff, and like VW stuff I also have
Yup, that's a domestic truck for you

this is common to domestic trucks? I have been trying to find out if im missing a piece. theres a little extra hole in the pedal that could work for a spring attachment.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 04-05-2013

Let me check my ranger on lunch break. AFAIK, it's just a pedal hooked to the master

Yup, nothing but a master cyl. No springs or anything fancy, beyond an idiot starting switch

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-05-2013

(04-05-2013, 09:18 AM)Simpler=Better Let me check my ranger on lunch break. AFAIK, it's just a pedal hooked to the master

Yup, nothing but a master cyl. No springs or anything fancy, beyond an idiot starting switch

interesting! thanks. apparently there might be a torsion spring on the chevy clutch pedal up at the pivot. A guy over on the astro forums emailed me a pic of a clutch pedal on his truck, and there is something hidden up there. Interesting that the ford doesn't have one.

I think I have a torsion setup figured out though, working on it today, have the half day off! Smile

If I can get the torsion spring arranged, then work up a stop, I can get the clutch pedal bracket welded in and get past this particularly steep hurdle

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-05-2013

so rummaging around, I managed to find this big torsion spring, which originally was for a Mk2 VW brake pedal. I played with the spring rate by rebending the hooks to look like this-

[Image: 005-1_zps204f3ceb.jpg]

So that it would actually catch on the pedal, I notched it up high-

[Image: 004-2_zps747dade4.jpg]

I then notched the pivot piece I made to get the other side of the spring, here it is installed on the pivot/pedal, rest position for the pedal is approx level with the pivot piece now-

[Image: 008-1_zpsf8d3bf5c.jpg]

Now that the spring was installed, I welded in the pivot piece permanently, you can see here how the rest position of the spring kicks the pedal up quite far. The welds are a bit ugly, but its plenty strong-

[Image: 013-3_zps7a2d9163.jpg]

next I made a little stop for the interim until I rig up a neutral safety switch. This is made again from a mk2 VW part, its actually a clutch lever bushing for a cable clutch, which works well enough as the interim stop-

[Image: 015-1_zpsba4310af.jpg]

Now apart from cleaning and painting the weld areas and bare metal, I have a working spring loaded clutch pedal with a stop finally!

[Image: 017-1_zpsa9dcdee9.jpg]

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-12-2013

two parter update, bunch of new pics.

Here are the finished position wise motor mounts. (later once Im satisfied with them, Ill take them off, do some finish grinding/welding if needed, and powdercoat them, and the driver side still needs an engine shock). So after waffling deliberation, I decided to go with the GM mounts because they are so much easier to remove, especially with the engine being in a van body and accessibility maybe being an issue for something like the mounts.

here is how the driver side turned out-

passenger-

The engine now sits with excellent clearance over the steering control arms. I have a high lift overland vans steering column connector coming which will compensate for the big lift on this subframe

a lock to lock test of that engine height looked good for steering interference. Though I did discover what looks like a bind issue with the tire hitting my aftermarket replacement sway bar, that might be a problem later. The bend is different than the OEM swaybar

I found a use for those pallet jack wheels I had lying around, they make excellent transmission mount spacers-

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 04-12-2013

I like the transmission mount spacers Smile

For the steering interference, it's not hard to get used to. When I ran camry wheels on my truck (cheap 16" snow tires...) they hit pretty hard, you just stop turning the wheel at the right point Smile

Assuming you have a rubber bumper on the A arm for the steering lock, you can install a nut&bolts to adjust the steering lock depth.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-12-2013

part 2-

time to reattach subframe to unibody and see how all this measuring and tweaking fits on the van-

lowering, the stock MB fuel filter head location had to be removed to fit-

mated, the only interference are these brake lines luckily! If the engine went any higher, id have some issues with the MB power steering pump hitting the GM brake booster

From the inside, everything lines up nicely, the stick handle is just a tiny bit to the rear, but still came right up to position. The engine will definitely fit under the hatch without issue, and it looks like I should have no major problem removing the injection pump if I need to. The access actually seems better than in the 240 in some areas-

On the passenger side, looks like there should be just room for a turbo, there is actually a little more room than this picture suggests, but exhaust clearance might be interesting here. I have to look into the fitting here soon-

Up front I can use either the GM or MB radiators, actually both are very new. Lots of room up here fortunately. (angle appears weird, but the actual pic is on a tilt)

above, this is the valve cover clearance available-

there is just room to get the cover off! Huge hurdle jumped with this development. It has to be pulled into the passenger cabin to clear the front, but it comes out without too much difficulty, so i will have to remember that when im routing lines later-

On the subframe, I had some concerns since this was a rusty subframe originally out of a later van, I was worried it might not fit right. Fortunately 5 out of 6 bolts fit perfect. One is totally off, by maybe 3/4 of an inch. I also stripped the thread on that nut as well (I had threaded it first a little, and once the others were in, that bolt got so jammed it ripped out the threads)
Fortunately for me, its just about the best place for this problem with plenty of access. God forbid it was a center bolt. My plan is to open up the unibody above, drill up through the body using the bushing as a guide where it actually sits, and weld in a new nut in this new position, then close up the unibody.

and after all that, here is the tradeoff in body height-

Thats a bit too high, after I get it running, ill be looking to drop it about 2 inches. Right now it looks preposterous, with the rear dragging, and the front reaching for the sky

(04-12-2013, 09:00 AM)Simpler=Better I like the transmission mount spacers

For the steering interference, it's not hard to get used to. When I ran camry wheels on my truck (cheap 16" snow tires...) they hit pretty hard, you just stop turning the wheel at the right point

Assuming you have a rubber bumper on the A arm for the steering lock, you can install a nut&bolts to adjust the steering lock depth.

Im missing quite a bit of OEM rubber bumpers on my control arms. One of them was probably the steering stop. When I work on lowering the suspension back down to something reasonable, i need to source stops for the upper and lower control arms, as well as a stop for steering. The lack of the rubber stops might be exaggerating the lift as well

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 04-12-2013

[Image: 004-2_zps19e561ff.jpg]

A set of oversized Twenties will take care of that wheelwell space. Big Grin

But seriously, looking good!

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - ben2go - 04-12-2013

Jack up the ass and run some all terrain tires.It will fit with the area you travel.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-13-2013

so here are the radiators compared- MB on the left. The ports are in the right place apart from the difference of side to side vs up and down flow.

Amazingly, the stock astro upper hose fits perfectly if you cut off about 2 inches. The stock Mercedes lower hose fits with about 4 inches removed. There might be a reference issue with the fan for the lower hose, and Im missing a lower plastic shroud that I definitely need that should solve that problem. The fans almost fits in the shroud correctly, just about 1 inch over to the passenger side. Also I had to trim a one inch strip off the upper shroud to clear the power steering pump

cooling system almost completely hooked up-

the only thing left is this rear port that needs to go to the heater core. The plan is to fabricate a pipe passage that bolts to the top of the valve cover and gets the coolant line past the turbo exhaust area without getting too close-

Excellent development on the throttle. Due to some amazing coincidence, or just a standard hole size that all automakers make for these things, the astro throttle cable fits right in perfectly to the Mercedes cruise control cable attachment. As if it were made for it. Some heavy modification to the throttle will need to take place here, as the distance is quite a bit different for cable throw, but I can use the mercedes bracket for the custom mod

@ deliveryvalve-

thanks! HELL no on low pro over size ghetto type crap, lol. Big Grin

this thing is going to be generic gen 1 astro when im done, lettered and commercial plated, just as boring as can possibly be

@ ben2go-

lol, another expensive look id prefer to avoid. the plan is parked in a lot, your eyes don't even recognize this as anything other than a gen 1 work van and pass over without interest until it fires up. Smile

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-13-2013

ok, Ive taken care of the cooling system and its all hooked up ready to test. I had this steel coolant pipe on the shelf, and I made some brackets for it to fit the valve cover-

How it looks installed-

Meanwhile, fitted the turbo. For the first time, the fact that this is a van came home to be big time. The turbo is really heavy and difficult to install from this angle, and the edges of the hatch might as well be a knife! The good news is that if fits in the space nearly perfectly, the bad news is that an exhaust pipe wont. Ill have to modify the hatch/body a slight amount to get the clearance I need for the downpipe.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 04-13-2013

How about removing the accordion portion of the coupling and install a custom down/flex pipe directly to the turbo outlet with a v band..

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - ben2go - 04-13-2013

Just a heads up.Some of your pics aren't showing.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-15-2013

(04-13-2013, 10:21 PM)ben2go Just a heads up.Some of your pics aren't showing.

Photobuckets crapola upgrade, I'll try and fix it

(04-13-2013, 05:42 PM)DeliveryValve How about removing the accordion portion of the coupling and install a custom down/flex pipe directly to the turbo outlet with a v band..

.

That's not a bad idea, what exactly is the function of that accordion?

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 04-15-2013

(04-15-2013, 05:54 AM)JB3 .....

That's not a bad idea, what exactly is the function of that accordion?

I maybe wrong, but here are my three reasons why they went that route.

1) MB wanted to use a standard flexible downpipe, so the put it in a fixed location support mounted at the rear of the exhaust manifold.
2) MB wanted the option to use different suppliers/manufacturers of the turbo which may have various lengths to be addressed. The accordion spacer easily allowed for the length variation by taking up or shorting the distance between the turbo and fixed position down pipe.
3) the accordion spacer absorbed the differences in the rate of heat expansion and cooling contraction between the downpipe and turbo. If there wasn't one, than there would be a lot of stress at the downpipe and turbo mounting points on the cast iron exhaust manifold and would lead to cracking.

I would mount the down pipe directly to the turbo and eliminate the hard mount. If you still wanted to use the mount, I would only attach it to the downpipe after the flex portion.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-15-2013

(04-15-2013, 10:47 AM)DeliveryValve
(04-15-2013, 05:54 AM)JB3 .....

That's not a bad idea, what exactly is the function of that accordion?

I maybe wrong, but here are my three reasons why they went that route.

1) MB wanted to use a standard flexible downpipe, so the put it in a fixed location support mounted at the rear of the exhaust manifold.
2) MB wanted the option to use different suppliers/manufacturers of the turbo which may have various lengths to be addressed. The accordion spacer easily allowed for the length variation by taking up or shorting the distance between the turbo and fixed position down pipe.
3) the accordion spacer absorbed the differences in the rate of heat expansion and cooling contraction between the downpipe and turbo. If there wasn't one, than there would be a lot of stress at the downpipe and turbo mounting points on the cast iron exhaust manifold and would lead to cracking.

I would mount the down pipe directly to the turbo and eliminate the hard mount. If you still wanted to use the mount, I would only attach it to the downpipe after the flex portion.

.

im thinking option 3 with how mercedes designed these things. Big Grin

Good call on no hard mount, there is enormous room for exhaust mounting just underneath, ill support it about 2 feet away with a nice rubber mount. There is a stock mount space where the cat used to be right there.
Plus I can use the open threaded posts to mount a heat shield instead!

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - DeliveryValve - 04-15-2013

(04-15-2013, 11:01 AM)JB3 im thinking option 3 with how mercedes designed these things.

I meant to say it was a combination of all three. Wink

(04-15-2013, 11:01 AM)JB3 Good call on no hard mount, there is enormous room for exhaust mounting just underneath, ill support it about 2 feet away with a nice rubber mount. There is a stock mount space where the cat used to be right there.
Plus I can use the open threaded posts to mount a heat shield instead!

I think as many heat shields you can install by the turbo would make your passenger's legs very happy! I don't think stock Astro heat padding was made for the heat a turbocharger would make.

.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - maxypriest - 04-15-2013

This thread is fantastic and needs 5 stars

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-17-2013

Thanks!

adjusted camber and dealt with the last subframe bolt. Now I can safely lift it without putting excess twist on the subframe and get to finishing the exhaust and such

camber was pretty bad originally-

super scientific method to get it close, ill have an alignment shop dial it in when the van is running

subframe bolt I was able to use the original nut still, I drilled the pass through hole just a little larger, and it threaded! it was less off than I initially expected. I was going to weld this shut, but I think im going to clean it up and install an access panel. Why GM made these things completely enclosed by metal is beyond me, this nut is heavily rusted

As deliveryvalve suggested, removing the flex pipe and flange stuff from the stock mercedes setup back to this bolt flange on the turbo housing itself produced a lot of room to do a pipe down. Ill make a pipe the bolts to this point instead

good call! Big Grin

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - willbhere4u - 04-17-2013

You can add a flex pipe in the down pipe any where you want.If so desired

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-17-2013

(04-17-2013, 03:29 PM)willbhere4u You can add a flex pipe in the down pipe any where you want.If so desired

ive got an aftermarket one to install. My plan is to rig up an S-type pipe that is hard mounted to probably the transmission bolt flange a bit lower by the starter, then do the flex pipe underneath.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 04-18-2013

Two points:

#1-Think of how the motor shakes while idling, then think about your flex pipe placement.

#2-Take that WG cover off while it's easy, clean everything up, and install brass nuts on the studs while it's easy to access

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Purplecomputer - 04-18-2013

woah, I rember how this and willbehere4u's thread inspired me to get a turbo on my 240.

good work JB3!

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-18-2013

(04-18-2013, 08:38 AM)Simpler=Better Two points:

#1-Think of how the motor shakes while idling, then think about your flex pipe placement.

#2-Take that WG cover off while it's easy, clean everything up, and install brass nuts on the studs while it's easy to access

You mean that cover completely held on by little mountains of rust? Big Grin

Good call and good call. Flex pipe will be mounted right after the tranny area. Interestingly the 4.3 did not have a flex pipe. The whole exhaust was hung with really soft rubber large hangers.

(04-18-2013, 08:42 AM)Purplecomputer woah, I rember how this and willbehere4u's thread inspired me to get a turbo on my 240.

good work JB3!

Thanks! gotta catch up with you and we can race eventually. Big Grin

so some minor updates-

stock driveshaft for the 4.3 auto fits without modification to the manual-

couple pics of the type of room underneath now that I could lift it. Im liking the accessibility that this body lift creates, lots of room to fit various items-
driver side-

passenger side-

Turbo exhaust downpipe resolved. Local custom exhaust place made this for me. Id say its a minimum 2 inches from the body at its closest. Im going to support this in a second off the transmission bolt pattern, maybe a third using the original second support on the exhaust manifold-

Slave installed-

I might luck out on the remote oil filter. It looks like I can drill a couple holes and mount it directly to the driver side engine mount, which would put it just a few inches from the remote plate I have and minimize the travel-

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-19-2013

Question-

What returns the throttle to rest position, is it only those two springs near the back of the injection pump? Or are there other internal components that do it as well?

I'm having an issue getting a full return to rest on the throttle. Those springs defintely need to be replaced, wonder if there is anything else contributing though. No linkage is attached with this problem

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-20-2013

so a few updates, I reinstalled all the front clip stuff and the bumper to get an idea on how the front looks with the subframe dropped. The result is weird (perhaps enhanced by the color difference). I will need to make a set of brackets to get the bumper back up.

For the last couple nights ive been researching chevy steering column disassembly, and after reading numerous threads, my decision is that I will be drilling out the pin for the shifter handle, and cutting off the tab in the engine bay vs opening that pandoras box and trying to remove those parts from the assembly. I did receive my steering linkage extension to make up for the lift!

Im using a ford V10 high torque starter (or so it says on the box). This is approximately half the size of the original MB starter, and will have some mechanical advantage working with the bigger flywheel. It fits pretty well with no interference around it-

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-22-2013

so I blew it on the oil filter relocation plate. I got a little overkill on the JIC fitting welds, ended up putting no less than 4 beads around them each to make double sure no leaks, and warped the 1/4 inch steel plate. Blush

oops, starting again with 1/2 inch steel plate this time.

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - Simpler=Better - 04-22-2013

Eh, it happens. Want to mail me that "scrap" plate so I can throw it on the mill and cut a clean flat face?

Double up on the bumpers Smile

Looks good, how close are you to a test drive?

Is there a heat shield for the starter?

Oh yeah, I forgot how ugly those vans were :p

RE: Turbo 616 powered Astro Van build - JB3 - 04-23-2013

(04-22-2013, 03:51 PM)Simpler=Better Eh, it happens. Want to mail me that "scrap" plate so I can throw it on the mill and cut a clean flat face?

Double up on the bumpers

Looks good, how close are you to a test drive?

Is there a heat shield for the starter?

Oh yeah, I forgot how ugly those vans were :p

Plate is yours if you want it, its a bit ugly, but serves as a good practice piece. Pm me you address and ill drop it in the mail to ya

This is the list before a test drive-

Finish oil filter system
Reconnect and run new brake lines for front wheels
Run clutch hydraulics and bleed
Install steering column and column extension
Finish fuel system, pull in tank pump, new filter, ect
Support bottom of radiator properly
Remove and repair clutch pedal bolt hole (oval), adjust stop
Wire starting and charging
Adapt throttle cable
Connect vaccum booster to vac pump
Connect power steering
Finish turbo oiling drain and supply
Install air filter
GREASE BALL JOINTS (can't forget that!)
Finish trans mount properly
Maybe trim shifter through hole

Then after its running-

Fix bumper
Install front end drop spindles, install control arm bumpers
A million little things Big Grin

By ugly I'm sure you mean a symphony of appealing aesthetics