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+--- Thread: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed (/showthread.php?tid=5559)
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - mike-81-240d - 10-01-2014
I just ordered the same intercooler. Hopefully I can figure out a way to hide the boost pipes, as I have a euro bumper already.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - MFSuper90 - 10-03-2014
When you move up to the 150cc pump you can sell me your little pump
I still want to come take a ride in this beast!
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 10-08-2014
Good luck to you guys with the intercooler. It's not drop in (obviously) you will have to do some tweaking to get it to fit and get creative to get the hood to latch. My approach was more caveman, I umm gently moved some of the intercooler down to allow the hood to latch. If you don't want to alter the intercooler you'll have to mount it about 1.5" lower. Also you will have to route around the tow hook (I cut mine off).
MF, id be happy to meet up but we have limited time before snow flies I'm thinking. And once it does the Benz is in storage till spring. And I'm sure we could come to a deal on the pump, but my 150cc is a ways off
No external Alda on my pump. No external anything (think fuel limit) so if I try to get more out of it I guess I will have to open it up. Goran says it would be very easy to get 100cc from it.
Need a clutch and a dyno. And reamed prechambers, and 315 nozzles, and 3" exhaust, and and...
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - MFSuper90 - 10-08-2014
I know what you mean with the snow. I just drive mine anyhow, it's rear wheel drive, fun in the snow
I found a om603 in columbus for sale, really got me thinking now....
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - lgreeley83 - 10-08-2014
I'm sure it's not one of your prouder moments but your caveman....bent intercooler or what? Got a pic?
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - mike-81-240d - 10-11-2014
Was your clutch a oe Sachs?
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 01-24-2015
In process for spring -
Holset HE221W, 315 nozzles, reamed prechambers, new heavy duty clutch
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - mike-81-240d - 01-25-2015
Let me know what comes of your clutch.
Mine is making some interesting noises, and occasionally slips if I beat on it into 2nd...
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-02-2015
Mike - I will post results of the clutch for sure, nobody has any information or review of an HD clutch for a 617 that I can find. Ill be trying a Spec stage 3. I was going to try clutchnet but decided against it after reading multiple bad reviews about their service.
Got the HE221 installed.
Unfortunately its February in Cleveland, and theres over a foot of snow. Have to wait till spring.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - mike-81-240d - 02-02-2015
So does this mean your old Holset is for sale?
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-02-2015
(02-02-2015, 03:22 PM)mike-81-240d So does this mean your old Holset is for sale?
Not yet. I want to see how this turbo works out before I get rid of the HE341.
My reasons for trying the HE221:
Looking to move the power down a little lower in the rpm range. I'm also looking for a more "driveable" experience. The 341 is a fun turbo that I know will flow all the air I could ever use, at least until I start bending rods. However it spools HARD.
For example, turn a corner, shift into second and give ~60% throttle. Go from 5psi to 22psi in the matter of a few hundred rpm, breaks back tires loose and/or makes clutch slip.
I think a more linear boost curve will make the power transfer to the ground a little more linear. If that makes sense.
My 6mm pump as it sits now should be 100cc (turned up a little since I first got it, dieselmeken said it would be very easy to get 100cc from it) which is enough for around 250hp at the crank. The HE221 should be well sized for that power, I've seen dyno proof of 285hp at the wheels with one.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-20-2015
So I stopped at the shop I used to work at and bought the owner lunch, in exchange for a couple hours use of the mill.
Got these installed today. Along with new injectors with 315 nozzles from Greazzer.
Unfortunately it will be a while before I can test them, as it is still winter and my pump is on its way to Sweden.
I know the "laboratory" way to do these things is to change one thing at a time but oh well.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-26-2015
Plans have changed for 2015
HX35 turbo, F.R.A.S will be building me an exhaust manifold, and my pump will be 7.5mm 140cc
Goal - 300HP at the wheels
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - F.R.A.S - 02-26-2015
Hehe will be a sweet ride
What's the problem with the clutch? I have a om617 FW laying in the shop and I can make that ready for a Sachs 765 for you
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-26-2015
I have never sent a pm faster
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - raysorenson - 02-26-2015
Get a cam made. Since valve lash is adjustable, it seems to easy not to try, especially if you're going to spool a real turbo. Did you see that Delta Cam thread? Their prices seem reasonable.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=5201
You'll need to find out how much valve to piston clearance you have at TDC. Simple enough task.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - MFSuper90 - 02-26-2015
You can get a cam reground for $3-400. Pretty reasonable I think, but I have no clue what specs or anything to get it ground to, to ensure proper valve clearance and such
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - raysorenson - 02-26-2015
$125 thrown around in the Delta Cam thread. Soooo cheap.
If you go to their site and look at their videos, they kinda show you how the sausage is made. They have a bunch of profiles stored, they measure yours, and go from there.
Piston to valve clearance is pretty easy. Set the piston at TDC, then push down on the valve until it touches the piston, using a dial indicator to measure travel.
This is on my list, once I get my 617 4x4 on the road again.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-27-2015
I'll have to research more on a cam, but I am intrigued. I had planned on pulling the head off my 85 before I scrap it, and porting it as much as I can. That will be "version 2.0" though, for now the engine will remain stock.
Not too worried about the spool. The HE341 I ran last year had a 9cm turbine housing, and I had full (22psi) boost at 3000rpm. So I would estimate it started to spool ~2400rpm. That's with the shit stock EGR manifold and stock exhaust.
Custom exhaust manifold and 3" exhaust, the 12cm housing should spool about the same. The modified injection pump makes a world of difference in spooling up a turbo. There's absolutely no comparison with the stock pump, even a maxed out one.
Still trying to determine what flywheel F.R.A.S has, doesn't sound like the 38lb one. Sounds like it's a 240 flywheel, but he can modify it for a 240mm Sachs clutch - clutch problem gone! No rolling the dice with clutchnet or spec!
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - raysorenson - 02-27-2015
That's great spool with an he341.
Why move to the HX35? I uderstand the largest 57mm HX35 flows maybe 600 CFM, the HE341 650 CFM. The HE's were the next generation turbo after the HX's and the HE doesn't have the split turbine housing. Split housing aren't much use in a 5 cylinder.
Drive pressure will probably be higher on the HE but I can't say for sure.
Alcaid is probably our best resource for matching Holset turbos to Mercedes engines.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 02-27-2015
It's funny you mention Alcaid. I sent him a message about the hx35 with the 10cm housing, he said that (paraphrasing) to get 300+ hp on an om617, a 12cm housing would be needed.
Ironically, I had one in the garage, bought it a while back, planning to build a set of compounds with the he221.
Jeemu and the other fins were always adamant that the 9cm turbine was no good, and caused too much backpressure.
As far as the divided housing, F.R.A.S and I haven't started designing/figuring quite yet. It is possible to do a divided manifold on a 5 cylinder, just split one cylinder between the two sides.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-07-2015
(02-27-2015, 03:04 PM)led-panzer It's funny you mention Alcaid. I sent him a message about the hx35 with the 10cm housing, he said that (paraphrasing) to get 300+ hp on an om617, a 12cm housing would be needed.
Ironically, I had one in the garage, bought it a while back, planning to build a set of compounds with the he221.
Jeemu and the other fins were always adamant that the 9cm turbine was no good, and caused too much backpressure.
As far as the divided housing, F.R.A.S and I haven't started designing/figuring quite yet. It is possible to do a divided manifold on a 5 cylinder, just split one cylinder between the two sides.
How is FRAS figuring out where to put your turbo flange? I was figuring out how to mount the he200wg today and it looks like the wastegate will not mount in the stock manifold position. It puts the wastegate actuator too close to the exhaust. So I may have to hack off the bracket and weld it back onto the other side of the compressor housing. Either that or get a new manifold. For now no intercooler so I could just position it for a straight shot into the w115 intake.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - F.R.A.S - 03-08-2015
(03-07-2015, 10:22 PM)atypicalguy(02-27-2015, 03:04 PM)led-panzer It's funny you mention Alcaid. I sent him a message about the hx35 with the 10cm housing, he said that (paraphrasing) to get 300+ hp on an om617, a 12cm housing would be needed.
Ironically, I had one in the garage, bought it a while back, planning to build a set of compounds with the he221.
Jeemu and the other fins were always adamant that the 9cm turbine was no good, and caused too much backpressure.
As far as the divided housing, F.R.A.S and I haven't started designing/figuring quite yet. It is possible to do a divided manifold on a 5 cylinder, just split one cylinder between the two sides.
How is FRAS figuring out where to put your turbo flange? I was figuring out how to mount the he200wg today and it looks like the wastegate will not mount in the stock manifold position. It puts the wastegate actuator too close to the exhaust. So I may have to hack off the bracket and weld it back onto the other side of the compressor housing. Either that or get a new manifold. For now no intercooler so I could just position it for a straight shot into the w115 intake.
Somethings you can't really build for. One guy can have a hx35 from a Dynapac heavy equipment and one a hx35 from a Dodge truck and those have different wastegate actuator positions. So easy to move stuff like that can be necessary to move AND that is almost always the case due to the simple fact that you need to spin the turbine or compressor house around to get the oil inlet up and oil return down
With the car and all the parts in house it's alot more simple as you can understand. However if you build a car you can move a bracket, otherwise you should empty the savings account and send the entire car to us and get it back it ready to race.
Other than that we have built for most chassis before and most engines so it's just a mater of photos and experience to get it to work.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-08-2015
One of the other reasons for using the HX35 was the wastegate attaches to the turbine housing, which allows the turbine and compressor housing to be rotated independently of each other.
Really excited to see what you guys come up with Fred. Chomping at the bit here
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-08-2015
Yes I am already considering alternate wastegate actuator mounting points. That is simpler than a new minifold. But not as good for high hp.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - F.R.A.S - 03-08-2015
(03-08-2015, 08:18 AM)led-panzer One of the other reasons for using the HX35 was the wastegate attaches to the turbine housing, which allows the turbine and compressor housing to be rotated independently of each other.
Really excited to see what you guys come up with Fred. Chomping at the bit here
(03-08-2015, 10:05 AM)atypicalguy Yes I am already considering alternate wastegate actuator mounting points. That is simpler than a new minifold. But not as good for high hp.
atypicalguy you should consider another manifold and not the alternative actuator position
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-09-2015
Installed a new Genuine Bosch 044 feed pump today. The factory lift pump won't be able to keep up with a 7.5mm superpump so it will be eliminated. I wanted to install it back near the tank but aside from putting it in the trunk I couldn't really find a good spot for it. Ended up on the drivers side of the engine bay. Once the line is primed I can't see it having too much trouble drawing from the tank.
I HATE wiring and electronics but I did it the right way and didn't hack it at all, gave it its own relay, soldered all the connections, shrink tube, the whole nine yards. Trying to assure my reluctance to rely on anything electric I guess
Took some pictures but for some reason they won't upload.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-11-2015
I guess I am not following the turbo logic here.
First was he341, which came on too hard with 6mm pump.
Then 221w installed. Did you ever post any results from the 221w? Seems like maybe it got liquidated with old pump. How was it? Not enough power? And what size housing was it?
Then hx35 12cm and bigger pump. This seems like a step backward in driveability, but more hp potential with other exhaust mods.
For me it is all about early spool. I want it on line at like 1500rpm. If it doesnt do that, I'm not driving it. So I went micro turbo for now. Next would be compound setup I guess.
Im all for experimentation but if you dont know what the destination is, its hard to know when you've arrived =:-)
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-11-2015
I never drove the HE221. I chose it because it was better matched to the 6mm pump in terms of power capacity and driveability. 6cm exhaust housing.
I was enthralled with the idea of making real power, and building an actual "superturbo", but I couldn't afford 2 pumps, so I posted the for sale ad for the 6mm to see if there was interest. It sold in 24hrs. Accordingly, I sold the turbo to go with it, which sold in less than 24hrs. Boom, I had $1,850 to work with.
Shipped my spare M pump to Goran, told him my goals, he put together a 7.5mm pump with 160cc max, and full fuel to 6000rpm.
Contacted F.R.A.S about an exhaust manifold, got that ball rolling.
Talked to Alcaid, the Holset guru, about a 300hp turbo. He said a 12cm exhaust housing would be needed. Well, I already had a 9cm and it worked quite well. With a bigger pump and proper exhaust manifold, it shouldn't be drastically different to the HE341. It may even get rid of the on/off manners of the HE341.
So I chose a turbo for absolute power, not driveability, though I do not believe drivability will suffer too much. If the lag is too great and I'm not happy with it, I have an idea about putting an M90 supercharger where the A/C unit mounts. We shall see.
I can see why you want boost so low in the rpm range, with a stock pump you really only start moving when the boost comes on. With a modified pump, the whole dynamic of the engine changes, it's much peppier out of boost.
If you get a modded pump, I think you'll find that HE211/HE200WG too small, unless you want to compound it. While the response will probably be fantastic, it'll choke in the high RPMs.
My destination will be a dyno showing 300hp or greater at the wheels
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-12-2015
I like it.
Yes fras thinks 150hp will be max for the 200wg and I agree. The wagon has a low 1st gear but I am tired of getting dusted at stop lights. My g taught me that the peak power and torque are not nearly as important as having it available at low rpms. At least stoplight to stoplight. I have no use for 300hp, honestly. I drive sunset twice a day and am already cornering at the limit of the tires and suspension.
On a separate note, Where can I get an he341ve? Seems simpler than compound. Was that turbo factory on some vehicle?
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-12-2015
Oh it was 2006-7 isb 230 in f650
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - F.R.A.S - 03-18-2015
What do you think this will be?
![[Image: 210381-45eabe3139b0dbad8442696ade7264f1.jpg]](http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/images/211/210381/210381-45eabe3139b0dbad8442696ade7264f1.jpg)
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-18-2015
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-18-2015
Nice.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-19-2015
Dieselmeken Super M-pump came today.
7.5mm elements, set to 140cc, absolute max 160cc, full fuel to 6000 rpm
![[Image: IMG_1153.jpg]](http://s4.postimg.org/ndv3g7q65/IMG_1153.jpg)
image hosting without account
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-19-2015
Cool.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - mike-81-240d - 03-20-2015
So sexy. Can't wait to get the 8mm MW for myself.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - F.R.A.S - 03-20-2015
Just had to post the second sneak peak
![[Image: 210381-5d3d2a91f353b2a7720bff9177354866.jpg]](http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/images/211/210381/210381-5d3d2a91f353b2a7720bff9177354866.jpg)
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - DeliveryValve - 03-20-2015
(03-19-2015, 11:58 AM)led-panzer Dieselmeken Super M-pump came today.
7.5mm elements, set to 140cc, absolute max 160cc, full fuel to 6000 rpm
image hosting without account
WOW!
.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - DeliveryValve - 03-20-2015
(03-20-2015, 02:31 PM)F.R.A.S Just had to post the second sneak peak2nd wow!
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - MFSuper90 - 03-21-2015
(03-20-2015, 02:31 PM)F.R.A.S Just had to post the second sneak peak
That's so badass!
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-21-2015
(
Evil maniacal laughter)MF hopefully we can meet up this summer so you can see/ride in/drive it
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - MFSuper90 - 03-22-2015
(03-21-2015, 08:07 AM)led-panzer (
MF hopefully we can meet up this summer so you can see/ride in/drive it
I'd love to! We might have to do it sometime before may, I leave for an internship beginning of May. Even if it's not put together the whole way, I'd love to see it.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-25-2015
Ok. I got the 7.5mm pump installed, plumbed, and running.
I made a block-off plate, to get rid of the stock lift pump. Couldn't resist the engraving function on the mill.
![[Image: IMG_1162.jpg]](http://s1.postimg.org/k40g134pr/IMG_1162.jpg)
The Engine shock has to come out to allow room for the ALDA. there's no way you could fit both. Also the engine mount arm makes things very very tight. The only way the pump fits at all is all the way "advanced" in the slots. So wherever you install it at timing wise, thats where it will be - no adjustment.
![[Image: IMG_1164.jpg]](http://s28.postimg.org/vpl0m5pct/IMG_1164.jpg)
I milled and drilled all the passages in the stock filter head as big as I could. Used a nice higher flowing banjo bolt and did the Baldwin mod.
![[Image: IMG_1165.jpg]](http://s1.postimg.org/zak9x8yvz/IMG_1165.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_1168.jpg]](http://s7.postimg.org/uaifj5yjf/IMG_1168.jpg)
(ignore the shitty clamp in the bottom left, it will be gone)
She's all in and running. Had some pretty spectacular leaks when I first keyed the pump
Fuel pressure is set at a constant 3 bar. Had an oscillating idle when it first started up but it seems to have sorted itself out. It seems very eager to rev, I'm wondering how tip in throttle will be.
So a review of all the fuel side mods -
-Enlarged prechambers
-315 nozzles
-7.5 mm pump
-Baldwin filter mod with enlarged passages in filter head
-Bosch 044 feed pump, 45psi
-Fuel pressure regulator
-6AN fuel lines all the way from the tank to the pump
I'm considering the fuel side completely done. All I have to do is wire up my fuel pressure gauge in the cabin.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 03-25-2015
Why do you need a fuel pressure gauge inside? Seems like the pump is adequate.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - F.R.A.S - 03-26-2015
Looks great mate.
It happens that the fuel pressure drops on boost, it has happened to us and it's aggravating that you cant make decent boost and you check and re-check everything fifty times. First time we didn't have an external FPR-gauge so we mounted a camera under the bonnet
Had like 0.5bar (7psi) when driving under boost so it was an easy fix when we knew about it.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 03-26-2015
(03-25-2015, 09:25 PM)atypicalguy Why do you need a fuel pressure gauge inside? Seems like the pump is adequate.
As F.R.A.S said, so I can monitor fuel pressure, especially at high load high rpm, to make sure it's adaequate. It can also help in a "no start" or "suddenly dies" situation, I can see if it's the electric pump. I don't trust electronics.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 04-18-2015
What kind of power does this thing make now?
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - led-panzer - 04-18-2015
(04-18-2015, 12:23 AM)atypicalguy What kind of power does this thing make now?
None yet. Been the victim of a customs nightmare.
In the meantime I'm handling the rear of the car. New subframe bushings, axles, and diff mount, 18mm rear springs, bilstein HD's, and a 3.69 differential.
I'll post some pictures when I get to that point.
RE: led-panzer's 1984 300D 4-speed - atypicalguy - 04-19-2015
Is customs balking at the manifold? You already have the pump, right?