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+--- Thread: W202 220D om604 +P (/showthread.php?tid=6138)
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 03-20-2015
Will start the car up this weekend (I hope)
![[Image: 210381-efc21c7289c5ea24fe7513a20a6bf125.jpg]](http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/images/211/210381/210381-efc21c7289c5ea24fe7513a20a6bf125.jpg)
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 03-25-2015
How to trash an engine in under 15min
Updates will come.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - bruno_pinho - 03-25-2015
What happend?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - erling66 - 03-29-2015
That sounds bad :o( I hope you find the reason and can tell us about it.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 03-30-2015
Have not even popped the hood yet
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - svenr - 03-30-2015
Hope its not serious
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 04-02-2015
That the end of it then?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Riverstick - 04-04-2015
What happened Fred?.....Did she put a leg out of bed?(con rod out through the block?)
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-05-2015
Car is still with hood closed
But I will try to take it apart today... Have been just a bit mad at myself. This was NOT a mechanical error, it was totally my own fault and lesson learned is DO NOT START THE CAR FOR THE FIRST TIME LATE AT NIGHT BEING TIRED.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 04-05-2015
Hit the valves?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-05-2015
Took the engine apart today. Looks WAY better then expected. Have been really embarrassed over the failure
Was such a rookie mistake but I really have to tell you...Screw all explanations that I have. It's simple, I was tired and missed a crucial part.
I forgot to fill up on water so run the car empty
yea I know, like the dumbest shit ever happened really but that's the truth.Now to the lucky part. Head is not cracked, pistons looks great, engine turns easy. Everything just looks good... So a new head gasket, machine the head straight, clean the prechambers and grind in the valves... Then it should fire right up again
It's amazing how strong those engines are really.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Turbo - 04-05-2015
even the sun has black spots...
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Riverstick - 04-05-2015
Not to worry Fred....tiredness is worse than being drunk.... Most guys never wake up to learn this lesson when driving late at night.
Normally a headgasket, machine head and your sucking diesel once more. Looking forward to seeing this car back in action
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Booster - 04-05-2015
Glad that its all ok! Cant wait to see it up and running.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-05-2015
(04-05-2015, 01:30 PM)Turbo even the sun has black spots...
Yea thanks, still sucks though
(04-05-2015, 01:39 PM)Riverstick Not to worry Fred....tiredness is worse than being drunk.... Most guys never wake up to learn this lesson when driving late at night.
Normally a headgasket, machine head and your sucking diesel once more. Looking forward to seeing this car back in action
True in every way...
(04-05-2015, 01:53 PM)Booster Glad that its all ok! Cant wait to see it up and running.
it will be up and running as soon as I can. Have to find the time to machine a new head gasket though
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - turbojeep - 04-05-2015
Glad to hear that it wasn't worse, I thought for sure you were going to say that your rods were making friends with the engine bay. Keep up the good work!
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-06-2015
(04-05-2015, 06:05 PM)turbojeep Glad to hear that it wasn't worse, I thought for sure you were going to say that your rods were making friends with the engine bay. Keep up the good work!
Yea it was better then expected. I didn't know/think about the lack of water so I drove the car om 28psi of boost for at least 5min, maybe more untill it died of the heat. So it was really, really bad. The day after we tow started the car to check the damage and it was filling the entire area in smoke. Really bad! I actually though the head was cracked in half.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Riverstick - 04-06-2015
Hi Fred,
In that case, You will probably want to replace the piston rings, and give a quick hone to the bores. Mercedes engines are normally ready for service once more after this mini overhaul.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-06-2015
(04-06-2015, 03:12 AM)Riverstick Hi Fred,
In that case, You will probably want to replace the piston rings, and give a quick hone to the bores. Mercedes engines are normally ready for service once more after this mini overhaul.
Surprisingly the bore is in perfect condition, the engine turns easy and bottom end looks like nothing ever happened
Thing is like this. If I have to pull the engine and take it apart, honing it and replacing the rings I'll rater get my self an om606 and sell the parts. I only have an 8mm 180cc IP on this one and if I wanted to make more work on this engine it has to be compound and A LOT of power.
Plan for next build is 8mm SS IP from Dieselmeken and aiming for 5bar of boost (70psi). However there is both time and money in a build like that so would be nice getting this one up and running so I can sell it and free up some cash
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Hario' - 04-09-2015
606 fits
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 04-09-2015
5 bar boost??????? Wow the rods and pistons will take this? What else is needed for that? Arp bolts gaskets etc?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - mytmousemalibu - 04-09-2015
My biggest worry about the 60X engines is the main bearing saddles and caps since its only a 2-bolt main and they have cracked under high power. I won't be shooting for the moon with mine but for the sake of durability I'm planning on making a stout main girdle/bedplate to strengthen the bottom end. I wish these were a cross-bolted main, then it would be perfect!
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-12-2015
(04-09-2015, 04:35 AM)whitey1986 5 bar boost??????? Wow the rods and pistons will take this? What else is needed for that? Arp bolts gaskets etc?
Will do forged h-beam rods and 12.9-bolts.
(04-09-2015, 05:27 AM)mytmousemalibu My biggest worry about the 60X engines is the main bearing saddles and caps since its only a 2-bolt main and they have cracked under high power. I won't be shooting for the moon with mine but for the sake of durability I'm planning on making a stout main girdle/bedplate to strengthen the bottom end. I wish these were a cross-bolted main, then it would be perfect!
I don't know if the bottom end will suffer that much, billet main caps maybe. It's not that expensive to make, the expensive part is the line honing involved in making it work. And for sure 12.9-bolts down there. Maybe some epoxi in the block and so on.
You think the block will flex that much so there is need for a girdle? I don't really but sure it's fast to just cut out with the water jet.
So epoxy filled block with a main girdle, 12.9-bolts all over and 5bar of boost. Sounds like a plan guys
Only worry is the pistons. Cummins guys are running steel pistons at this boost and there is a reason for that. I'll think of something.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Booster - 04-12-2015
What turbo set up will you use to get 5bar??
You will need a custom boost gauge hahaha
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 04-12-2015
(04-12-2015, 02:51 AM)Booster What turbo set up will you use to get 5bar??
You will need a custom boost gauge hahaha
Yea boost gauge I have only reaches 4bar (56psi)
Think there is a 6bar (84psi) option available Will run (ohhh man this is far in the future) a compound setup with like a gtx3071r and a gtx4202r, this might change and maybe I need a 3076 instead of the 3071 to make the earth spin but we'll see.
Money is the real problem here though and would like to put it all in a w203 chassis instead. We'll see what happens
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 04-12-2015
Mahle do steel pistons with lower compression height so potential for cutting the block down save weight
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Turbo - 04-12-2015
(04-12-2015, 05:45 AM)what pistons are you speaking about below!? whitey1986 Mahle do steel pistons with lower compression height so potential for cutting the block down save weight
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 04-12-2015
http://www.mahle.com/mahle/en/news-and-press/press-releases/topweld-steel-pistons-make-passenger-car-diesel-engines-even-more-economical.jsp
Have a look. I don't know if they sell to the public but if someone contacts them they might get some decent information.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Duncansport - 04-12-2015
(04-12-2015, 02:39 PM)whitey1986 http://www.mahle.com/mahle/en/news-and-press/press-releases/topweld-steel-pistons-make-passenger-car-diesel-engines-even-more-economical.jsp
Have a look. I don't know if they sell to the public but if someone contacts them they might get some decent information.
Mahle does indeed sell these for for the performance market of Cummins, Powerstroke and Duramax. These are still heavier then aluminum but they are very resilient to heat, can run extremely high clearance (they expand less) . I spoke with them about a year ago and the cost to even make these for use is beyond something they would be willing to attempt. Even for the big 3 diesel engines here you still talking almost 2K for a set..without rings.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 04-12-2015
Wowzer definitely a lot then!
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Turbo - 04-12-2015
(04-12-2015, 02:39 PM)You are quite aware of that piston for a IDI engine differ quite much from a DI engine whitey1986 http://www.mahle.com/mahle/en/news-and-press/press-releases/topweld-steel-pistons-make-passenger-car-diesel-engines-even-more-economical.jsp
Have a look. I don't know if they sell to the public but if someone contacts them they might get some decent information.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - greenmachine - 09-04-2015
hello people, i´ve also installed a m pump on a om604, but this pump has a vacum switch to power off, as i had a crappy lucas pump, with electrical power down, how did you go around this issue, and have the pump on and off with the car key ?
thank you
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - raysorenson - 09-04-2015
The ignition switch normally has a vacuum switch attached. You can add an electrical vacuum switch controlled by the ignition if you don't feel like replacing the whole ignition switch assembly.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - greenmachine - 09-04-2015
(09-04-2015, 10:48 AM)raysorenson The ignition switch normally has a vacuum switch attached. You can add an electrical vacuum switch controlled by the ignition if you don't feel like replacing the whole ignition switch assembly.
myne, doesnt .... its a w202 220d from 1995 .... can you specify the wiring and the vacuum switch model ??
my idea is to use the vacuum valve from the egr valve, but where to get the power from ???
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - raysorenson - 09-04-2015
Find a wire that's hot in start and run. The egr vacuum valve should work fine.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 09-05-2015
I just mounted a new valve and got ignition power from the fuse box.
And yea guys...
The head is assembled and renovated from top to toe so I will start this car up really soon
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - erx - 11-03-2015
From where did you take oil for turbo? From oil filter housing oil pressure sensor plug? And oil return line is just drilled through engine block?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 11-04-2015
I have a m103 oil filter housing with oil out to the turbo and the return is in the sump.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Hario' - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 02:25 AM)F.R.A.S I have a m103 oil filter housing with oil out to the turbo and the return is in the sump.
No plugged fittings on the 604? I thought it came with turbo option also
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 11-05-2015
No om604 where only n/a, only one from om601-om606 that never had a stock turbo version.
(11-04-2015, 05:22 PM)Hario No plugged fittings on the 604? I thought it came with turbo option also
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - erx - 12-01-2015
How much boost was your 604 stock soft headgasket holding? We put 606 modified manifolds, turbo and 6mm pump on 604 and headgasket was blown out after 30 meters driving with 2nd gear.
3rd and 4th cyl have pressures down so it must be blown gasket between these two cylinders. I belive it was going to be blown anyway because we got 2bar for two seconds and that was all, it was the shortes test drive ever.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 12-02-2015
Ohhh man sorry to hear. I did 2.5bar (35psi) for a couple of weeks of HARD driving. Then I swaped to the om605 steel gasket.
(12-01-2015, 05:12 PM)erx How much boost was your 604 stock soft headgasket holding? We put 606 modified manifolds, turbo and 6mm pump on 604 and headgasket was blown out after 30 meters driving with 2nd gear.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - erx - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 02:24 AM)F.R.A.S Ohhh man sorry to hear. I did 2.5bar (35psi) for a couple of weeks of HARD driving. Then I swaped to the om605 steel gasket.
(12-01-2015, 05:12 PM)erx How much boost was your 604 stock soft headgasket holding? We put 606 modified manifolds, turbo and 6mm pump on 604 and headgasket was blown out after 30 meters driving with 2nd gear.
So mine was just old and needed changing anyway. I will not go over 2bar with stock 606 turbo, I don't know if I buy stock 604 gasket and go for silmple way or also swap to 605 metal gasket. Is gasket bore diameter needed to machine bigger like you did? Will the piston edges hit the gasket or what is the problem?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 12-04-2015
Yes the om604/5/6 pistons actually goes higher then the block so the pistons will hit the gasket. The organic gasket will never make it if you don't o-ring the block and that's more work then machining a gasket.
(12-02-2015, 03:20 AM)erx So mine was just old and needed changing anyway. I will not go over 2bar with stock 606 turbo, I don't know if I buy stock 604 gasket and go for silmple way or also swap to 605 metal gasket. Is gasket bore diameter needed to machine bigger like you did? Will the piston edges hit the gasket or what is the problem?
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - erx - 12-06-2015
I took off cylinder head and found that pistons are not reaching to the block level, two pistons were about 3mm lower than block. I took pistons out and all four rods are bent, it was quite a surprise after one spoolup with 2nd gear. It seems that spool went up very fast and on low rpm and it killed the rods, turbo from om606 spooled up really fast on 2,2 engine, 2bar came instantly.
![[Image: IMG_5521_zpsf1go1fr8.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/om604/IMG_5521_zpsf1go1fr8.jpg.html)
And how it looks under the bonnet.
![[Image: IMG_5517_zpsqx3dnbnx.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/om604/IMG_5517_zpsqx3dnbnx.jpg.html)
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - F.R.A.S - 12-07-2015
Damn man, that has to have been some crazy low down torque.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - NZScott - 12-07-2015
Yikes. So the head gasket blew as well as the rods bending?
Bit frightened about my NA 617 with a 5cm turbine and 7.5mm pump now
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - whitey1986 - 12-08-2015
Off topic slightly - nzscott looking at your consideration description you should feed the turbo into the supercharger. Supercharger is a positive displacement pump and only compresses a fixed volume so could be a restriction to the turbo. As it can't pull through more than the maximum the supercharger can supply. Whereas the air being compressed by the turbo can then be compressed again by the supercharger with less restriction. Hope this helps
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - CRD4x4 - 12-08-2015
(12-08-2015, 01:29 AM)whitey1986 Off topic slightly - nzscott looking at your consideration description you should feed the turbo into the supercharger. Supercharger is a positive displacement pump and only compresses a fixed volume so could be a restriction to the turbo. As it can't pull through more than the maximum the supercharger can supply. Whereas the air being compressed by the turbo can then be compressed again by the supercharger with less restriction. Hope this helps
Wouldn't forcing a supercharger to compress already compressed turbocharged air be asking a lot from it? The supercharger already has a parasitic drag on the motor/crank pulley when it's compressing atmosphere so think of the horses your losing.
I'm not saying it doesn't work - I haven't done it myself - I'm just sharing my thoughts.
RE: W202 220D om604 +P - Hario' - 12-08-2015
(12-08-2015, 07:41 AM)CRD4x4(12-08-2015, 01:29 AM)whitey1986 Off topic slightly - nzscott looking at your consideration description you should feed the turbo into the supercharger. Supercharger is a positive displacement pump and only compresses a fixed volume so could be a restriction to the turbo. As it can't pull through more than the maximum the supercharger can supply. Whereas the air being compressed by the turbo can then be compressed again by the supercharger with less restriction. Hope this helps
Wouldn't forcing a supercharger to compress already compressed turbocharged air be asking a lot from it? The supercharger already has a parasitic drag on the motor/crank pulley when it's compressing atmosphere so think of the horses your losing.
I'm not saying it doesn't work - I haven't done it myself - I'm just sharing my thoughts.
It's called compounding, and if the supercharger is geared to provide for example 15psi boost. If a turbo is pushing 30psi into the supercharger, the supercharger output would be 45psi. So the supercharger only sees a 15psi differential across it, just like it would in a normal operation.
The reason why a turbocharger can't draw through a positive displacement supercharger is because the turbo's air flow requirement fluctuates with the turbocharger shaft speed (unrelated to crank speed), whereas a positive displacement supercharger's airflow requirement is directly proportional to crank speed.
Using a turbocharger to provide air pressure at the inlet of a positive displacement supercharger is very beneficial because rootes blowers run out of the ability to fill with air when they rotate at high speed. (Gear the SC for low down boost and the turbo will spool at high revs and pump into it bring its airflow back up). Much in the same way an engine's power curve drops off when it reaches peak air flow (atmospheric air pressure is unable to fill the void left by the rapidly descending piston within the decreasing inlet stroke window are rpm's increase.
Rant. lol.