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+--- Thread: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 (/showthread.php?tid=1604)
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - winmutt - 02-07-2011
FWIW thye W124 has the oil cooler in the wheel well as well. Can't be all that bad.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - casioqv - 02-07-2011
(02-07-2011, 10:46 AM)jonbobshinigin While I am saving up for a Myna Build, I plan on turning my pump up to full load, and installing an Intercooler. I have decided to use the passenger side area in front of the wheel well.
This is how nicely the Saab intercooler fits in the w124/w201 wheel well:
![[Image: Saab_IC_side1.jpg]](http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/W124.133_Sabb_IC/Saab_IC_side1.jpg)
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 02-07-2011
Which particular model is this off of? Any more photos?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - casioqv - 02-07-2011
(02-07-2011, 03:09 PM)jonbobshinigin Which particular model is this off of? Any more photos?
Most 80s Saab Turbos... I'm not entirely certain. I just found that photo online, but have also toyed with test fitting in the junkyard. The fit is a bit tight in the w201, but I think it can be made to work.
It's not a very big or efficient intercooler, and at that placement location would probably require a powerful electric fan to get much airflow across it. But it might be one of the few intercooler options that doesn't require hacking up the body.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - ForcedInduction - 02-07-2011
The saab intercoolers are too small for a 3L engine, especially a 603, the flow restriction offsets more efficiency than the cooling gives. Volvos are the worst though.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 02-07-2011
So what would you recommend for something to handle Full Load adjustment that will also fit under the wheel well area? The ultimate option would be an AMG style bumper and a full IC, but that it more money than I have right now and obviously would not make sense until I had a Myna. Also, I am not wanting to go Water to Air right now.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - casioqv - 02-07-2011
(02-07-2011, 04:01 PM)ForcedInduction Volvos are the worst though.
I'll bet the Volvo intercooler is one of the best ever sold in a stock turbocharged passenger car, considering it's massive size, but I don't see how you'd fit it in any Mercedes. My gas Volvo turbo is making about 220 horsepower on the stock intercooler without any pinging on crap California pump gas, and there's people on Turbobricks.com making a lot more power than that with the Volvo IC on gasoline engines where intake air temps are far more critical.Look the Volvo intercooler flows better than the Saab one:
http://www.gusmahon.org/html/cooler%20test.htm
Efficiency test of stock Volvo intercooler compared to a massive custom Spearco one:
http://personal.linkline.com/dbarton/SpecSheet.html#intercooler
I'd say dropping intake temps from 175C (448 kelvin) to 56C (329 kelvin) (on a stock Volvo T3 pushing 10.9 psi into a 2.1L engine) is "pretty good" and represents roughly a 36% increase in air mass entering the engine at the same boost level. Sure, there's better intercoolers out there but there aren't really any intercoolers this good that can *easily* be fit to a W124 without cutting the chassis up.
When comparing flowrates keep in mind that the OM603 only revs to ~4600rpm (I think that's right, can anyone confirm that?) whereas those "small" gasoline 4 cylinders rev to ~7000rpm actually flowing higher air volumes than the OM603 at comparable boost levels.
I think the air to water intercooler is a nice elegant solution, but I'd be too afraid of it developing a leak and hydrolocking the engine for a daily driver...
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - ForcedInduction - 02-08-2011
(02-07-2011, 04:07 PM)jonbobshinigin So what would you recommend for something to handle Full Load adjustment that will also fit under the wheel well area?Small and high flow is a difficult job to fill. Pretty much all that fits the bill are A/W cores. A TDI intercooler would be a better compromise than a Saab since its twice as thick.
The ultimate choice for a small intercooler would be something like this Ford Sierra radiator+Intercooler combo.
Quote:I'll bet the Volvo intercooler is one of the best ever sold in a stock turbocharged passenger car, considering it's massive size, but I don't see how you'd fit it in any Mercedes.Um, have you ever measured the pressure drop across one? Even on a stock car? Considering the above statement, I'd say no.
The drop on a stock 9psi engine can easily be upwards of 1psi, very restrictive. A decent core shouldn't see more than 0.25psi drop at maximum flow and boost.
Volvo's intercooler is little more than a water radiator with different tanks clamped on. It relies on very narrow passages to get air contact instead of large tubes with turbulators as with a true intercooler.
Quote:When comparing flowrates keep in mind that the OM603 only revs to ~4600rpm (I think that's right, can anyone confirm that?) whereas those "small" gasoline 4 cylinders rev to ~7000rpm actually flowing higher air volumes than the OM603 at comparable boost levels.That is false. Its rare for a stock g@sser to revv that high.
An OM603.96 revvs to 4500rpm with 12psi boost= 300cfm, 336cfm if intercooled
A Saab 900 turbo revvs to 5500rpm with 6psi boost = 221cfm
A Volvo 240 Turbo revvs to 6000rpm with 9psi boost= 296cfm
So in either case, neither flows as much as a 603 under intercooled or non conditions.
Read through here:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1931/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1946/article.html
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 02-08-2011
That looks very interesting Forced! Also very clean looking. Now would that be enough cooling power to keep up with a Myna? My guess it that it would not, in which case I would style like something for my "Stage 1"/Full Load + Intercooler behind fender. Do you have a recommendation for something adequate for that application?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - winmutt - 02-08-2011
I think the cheapo AW intercoolers on ebay are probably the best way to go. The only downside is that they use AA cores instead of AW cores. However they appear to flow plenty for our needs and are pretty compact. Like this one :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/12-25-X12-X4-5-UNIVERSAL-TURBO-INTERCOOLER-AIR-WATER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b877a16cQQitemZ170598572396QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Check this puppy out :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Custom-Universal-406-CFM-4-Core-High-Flow-Intercooler-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf4913d36QQitemZ330520673590QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_3271wt_941
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - ForcedInduction - 02-08-2011
(02-08-2011, 10:42 AM)jonbobshinigin Now would that be enough cooling power to keep up with a Myna?For a little 15psi 4-banger, sure. For a 20-30+psi Myna engine, definitely not. Little short of a full sized front or top mount intercooler would work for that. Even A/W would need something twice the size of the core I've got (10x4.5x4.5).
Quote:Do you have a recommendation for something adequate for that application?The TDI IC is a better fit.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - casioqv - 02-08-2011
(02-08-2011, 05:09 AM)ForcedInduction The drop on a stock 9psi engine can easily be upwards of 1psi, very restrictive. A decent core shouldn't see more than 0.25psi drop at maximum flow and boost.
There's definitely a trade-off between flow restriction and cooling. The Volvo intercooler is pretty restrictive (although less so that most other stock 80s car intercoolers) but the large surface area and small passages mean it drops the air charge temperature considerably. I don't think you can make a clear cut comparison between the Volvo intercooler and a smaller one that has less flow restriction, but also doesn't cool the air as much without actually comparing them in a specific vehicle on a dyno.
Still, I agree there's no reason to use the Volvo intercooler. Any vehicle which could fit it could use the Isuzu NPR intercooler instead which is about the same size/shape as the Volvo with much less flow restriction.
Quote:A Volvo 240 Turbo revvs to 6000rpm with 9psi boost
Stock boost is set even lower than that (5-6 psi) but the stock intercooler still seems to work well with it raised to ~15psi.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - ForcedInduction - 02-08-2011
(02-08-2011, 02:18 PM)casioqv I don't think you can make a clear cut comparison between the Volvo intercooler and a smaller one that has less flow restrictionI did. The large pressure drop offsets the better cooling with higher turbo drive pressure. Its a balancing act; high flow, high cooling or a little of both. A free flowing intercooler that doesn't cool very well is better choice than a very restrictive one that gets the temperature near ambient.
Given MB's reputation for "over-engineering", why did it take them 20 years before choosing to install one? Even Ford took "only" 12 years before adding it to the powerstroke line.
Quote:Any vehicle which could fit it could use the Isuzu NPR intercooler instead which is about the same size/shape as the Volvo with much less flow restriction.Or pretty much any core if such a large amount of space is available. The only marks in the Volvo favor are its cheapness and common availability.
Quote:Stock boost is set even lower than that (5-6 psi) but the stock intercooler still seems to work well with it raised to ~15psi.Yes, I understand there is even a factory "overboost kit" that allows 13psi for a limited time.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jeemu - 02-08-2011
If make small accelerations, Chinece coolers are good enough. If need to drive fast long times just need choise better cooler core.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - gsxr - 02-09-2011
Stock 603.96x rev limit is 5150rpm, ±250rpm. Tranny upshift at WOT is ~4800 but I tweaked mine to ~5000. Peak power is down around 4600, but the engine has useful delivery to at least 5k. The Finns are spinning them up even higher but 5k is fine with me.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-08-2011
Does anyone know if an Intercooler would fit behind an original Lorinser front bumper?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - winmutt - 03-08-2011
(03-08-2011, 11:57 AM)jonbobshinigin Does anyone know if an Intercooler would fit behind an original Lorinser front bumper?
You got one? Post a pic in your car thread!
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-08-2011
I am just looking into acquiring one actually...but I need to know if it will allow for an intercooler. Any idea what a new Lorinser bumper would run?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - gsxr - 03-08-2011
(03-08-2011, 12:43 PM)jonbobshinigin Any idea what a new Lorinser bumper would run?I'm sure you'd faint if you got a price. I'm also pretty sure the Lorinser items are no longer available new. But they should allow room for an IC; you can probably tell if you can get decent photos.
You can buy the AMG front bumpers though, those are still available; at least the Gen2. The Gen1 is now marked "discontinued".
The Gen2 is $1265 from Parts.com plus shipping, and includes the auxiliary high-beam driving lights. And yes, it will definitely allow room for a nice-size IC.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - winmutt - 03-09-2011
The duraflex kits are half the price and the full body.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-09-2011
Are the durakits okay? Would AMG bumper be better for fitting an intercooler behind? Im getting the bumper either way, I just wanna know which would be better for an intercooler. Also, is there something besides a a Lorinser that I can put on the rear to match this front Lorinser?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - frodes - 03-12-2011
Have any of you considered water-intercooler?
It shuld be possible to incorporate in the original air supply over the engine, and will not need any big hoses.
The w140-manifold pictured earlier in the tread looks very mouch the same as the standard manifold on all 603 turbos sold in Europe (all years from 1987 to1996).
The pictures located HERE are from my engine compartment. None of the manifold specially, but it can be seen in some of the pictures.
00012 is the only one showing some of the manifold. I can take some more pictures if requested.
The car is my 1992 300TD Turbo , euro.
This manifold is NOT suited for tuning, and is considered the main reason that almost all cylinder heads on the OM603 turbos get cracks and must be changed. I changed mine at 400.000 km (250k miles). It had cracks on 3 cylinders.
The design of the manifold causes too high temperatures.
How would the HX40 work with a standard IP? I want to tune my car, but I want to start with exhaust, manifold and take it from there.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - ForcedInduction - 03-12-2011
(03-12-2011, 10:03 AM)frodes Have any of you considered water-intercooler?I've used it for over a year. I like it quite well.
Quote:and is considered the main reason that almost all cylinder heads on the OM603 turbos get cracks and must be changed.The manifold has no effect on cracking from overheating.
Quote:It had cracks on 3 cylinders.No it doesn't.
The design of the manifold causes too high temperatures.
Quote:How would the HX40 work with a standard IP?Extremely poorly. Its slow to spool even on the 8.3L 300hp engine its designed for, it wouldn't spool more than a few psi with less than WOT at high RPM on a 603.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - frodes - 03-12-2011
you are of course free to mean what ever you want to about the stock manifolds. Ask any serious tuner, they'll tell you the design is useless.
I don't know if the problem with cylinder heads cracking is the same on US versions. On euro spec, they all need replacing at 300-450.000 km.
Adjusting the turbo pressure and diesel delivery only makes the problem worse. Yet, the bad ass setups with twice the original output or even more, seem to do just fine as long as the flow is optimized.
What would be a good working turbo with stock IP, yet being ready for up to 250-280 hp?
Any more info / pictures of your water intercooling? I've only seen it installed in an 1994 E280 with twin turbo.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-13-2011
The Brand New, Genuine Lorinser Front bumper is in my possession! I am very excited and pictures will be up soon...hopefully tomorrow! I feel like I kind of found a goldmine.
It says Lorinser 488 2021. Made in West Germany
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - ForcedInduction - 03-13-2011
(03-12-2011, 12:28 PM)frodes Ask any serious tuner, they'll tell you the design is useless.Ah, so thats why every manufacturer in the world uses the design.
Quote:I don't know if the problem with cylinder heads cracking is the same on US versions.ALL 603 14-18 version heads crack due to casting design flaws, not the manifold.
Quote:What would be a good working turbo with stock IP, yet being ready for up to 250-280 hp?An HY35 or HE341 would be more than enough for that power range and up to 36psi boost.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - wlockerb - 03-13-2011
Is studding the head neccesary when getting into boost levels like that?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - gsxr - 03-13-2011
(03-13-2011, 01:24 AM)ForcedInduction ALL 603 14-18 version heads crack due to casting design flawsOnly #14 and #15 heads had the weak design that was crack prone.
#17, 18, 20, and 22 are the revised 603 turbo head castings which almost never crack.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-13-2011
As promised:
![[Image: lorinser1.jpg]](http://www.godspeed22.com/benz/lorinser1.jpg)
![[Image: lorinser2.jpg]](http://www.godspeed22.com/benz/lorinser2.jpg)
![[Image: lorinser3.jpg]](http://www.godspeed22.com/benz/lorinser3.jpg)
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - gsxr - 03-13-2011
Niiiiice! But even after you paint it red, I'm not sure how it will look on that Jetta...
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - frodes - 03-13-2011
(03-13-2011, 01:24 AM)ForcedInduction An HY35 or HE341 would be more than enough for that power range and up to 36psi boost.
What about Garret GT28R?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-13-2011
Haha...very true. I figured someone would say something about that. Now what to do with this bumper, sell or install?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 03-13-2011
Anyone know the part number for the impact strip? Is it same as stock?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - gsxr - 03-14-2011
Impact strip should be same as stock. Part number depends on if you want the 86-93 style which is textured and black, or the 94-95 style which is smooth and painted bumper color (which may or may not be body color, it varied by the paint code).
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - frodes - 03-24-2011
.... or how about the Garret GT32 ? Shuld be bolt-on.
I am probably installing 6mm elements in my pump and fitting water cooler.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - Einar - 03-30-2011
I have also heard that the head cracking problems dont appear with another turbo manifold.
Offcoarse, if the engine is too hot, yes, but they are cracking even W/O too hot engine.
A restrictive exhaust manifol/turbo will make the EGT higher, and the head will get hotter.
I have a cracked #16head here, cracked on 5 cylinders.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - frodes - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 10:48 AM)Einar I have a cracked #16head here, cracked on 5 cylinders.
I just had to have a look at my old head, that is sitting in the basement, awaiting removal of the pre chambers. It gave up at 401.000 km (250.000 miles), with 3 cracks, and it is a #18 from a 1992-model euro spec (300 TD Turbo was sold 1987-1996 in europe).
Stock IP, stock boost pressure. Always driven carefully.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 08-23-2011
Okay, so I have this puppy just sitting here beckoning me to install...what will I need to do to make the HX35 Spool in a practical manner for daily driving without a pump upgrade? As long as it does not kill my MPG tremendously I am okay with a little less spool time...I will do the full load adjustment as well, and probably install the bumper and intercooler soon after.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - winmutt - 08-24-2011
That is all that can be done is turning screws. Have you gotten a U tube yet?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 08-24-2011
I am not sure what you are referring to..."U Tube"?
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - winmutt - 08-24-2011
The coolant pipe from the tstat housing to the aux water pump. On the 603 with the federal manifold its a snake that comes up and interferes with the euro manifold, as you pointed out earlier
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 08-24-2011
Oh that...I have not tracked one down still...What did you do to remedy that? I have not thought about it for a while so it is not fresh in my mind :-) I am just getting antsy to get this thing installed!
PS - I am searching now and just stumbled across your benzworld post requesting one. Ha!
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 04-08-2018
This project is alive again...DPUK 6mm Pump is installed along with Holset HX32. Photos to follow!
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - awsrock - 04-08-2018
HX32 aka HX30 Super? Curious, used to be a lot of unknowns about the fabled HX32
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 04-08-2018
It is a legit HX32! And yes, I have heard nothing but how mysterious they are. I will have specs from Holset on it soon! More info in Signature link.
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 05-19-2018
Supposed Specs:
Comp Inducer 54mm
Turbine Inducer 52mm
12cm Turbine Housing
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - awsrock - 05-20-2018
Nice. I have a similarly sized BW turbo. What cc is your pump? As long as I don't have any intake leaks it performs pretty well. A little laggy in 3rd at low throttle but top end is great. Fuel kicks in around 2700. I have a custom manifold that has somewhat long tubes though
RE: Holset HX35 Install info on om603 - jonbobshinigin - 05-22-2018
130CC from the 6mm DPUK....I am having issues spooling the HX32. I am seeing maybe 5 psi at 3500 rpms then it will shoot up to 20-25 for a quick second at 4500rpms. Very frustrating. No boost leaks but maybe an exhaust leak at the flex pipe between the two parts of the exhaust.