(06-13-2016, 07:50 AM)Petar Note that chart is likely made for a gas engine and a diesel will certainly move more air per hp. How much i don't know but i would estimate 20-30% more

(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!

Some questions if you do not mind: 

1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working? 

2. how big is the small turbo compressor?

3. how big are the bypass wastegates?

4. What rpm does it spool? 

5. Have you measured any backpressure?

You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.

(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx

(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!

Some questions if you do not mind: 

1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working? 

2. how big is the small turbo compressor?

3. how big are the bypass wastegates?

4. What rpm does it spool? 

5. Have you measured any backpressure?

You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.

1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.

2. 

GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648, 
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades

3. 60mm

4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.

5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.

(05-17-2018, 12:42 AM)atypicalguy

(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx

(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!

Some questions if you do not mind: 

1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working? 

2. how big is the small turbo compressor?

3. how big are the bypass wastegates?

4. What rpm does it spool? 

5. Have you measured any backpressure?

You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.

1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.

2. 

GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648, 
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades

3. 60mm

4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.

5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.

Thank you for the detailed responses. 

That is a nice back pressure ratio!

Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?

And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure. 

I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.

(05-19-2018, 07:07 PM)erx

(05-17-2018, 12:42 AM)atypicalguy

(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx 1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.

2. 

GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648, 
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades

3. 60mm

4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.

5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.

Thank you for the detailed responses. 

That is a nice back pressure ratio!

Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?

And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure. 

I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.

I use two solenoids for bypass wg-s to control both upper and lower chambers. Bypass is 100% opened when full load. VGT is controlled by Ole fejer controller.

(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates.   what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?

just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.

(10-18-2018, 04:00 PM)erx

(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates.   what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?

just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.

Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.  

I will add pics someday.

(10-18-2018, 04:00 PM)erx

(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates.   what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?

just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.

Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.  

I will add pics someday.

(11-10-2018, 10:04 PM)whipplem104 I was wondering if you have done a before and after dyno with the intake. No other changes.

(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?

(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx

(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?

It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.

But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.

It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out  interior.

Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.

(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy

(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx

(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?

It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.

But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.

It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out  interior.

Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.

Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.

There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure. 

Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.

It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.

(02-28-2019, 12:19 PM)g wizz

(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy

(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.

But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.

It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out  interior.

Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.

Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.

There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure. 

Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.

It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.

its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.

external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.

cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.