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+--- Thread: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D (/showthread.php?tid=858)
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-30-2010
The stock oil feed had the restrictor at the end of the line in the fitting that bolted to the turbo....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-30-2010
(07-30-2010, 01:13 PM)Captain America The stock oil feed had the restrictor at the end of the line in the fitting that bolted to the turbo....
ok I will take a look and verify...as Ronald Regan said, "Trust, but verify"
t
Thanks.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 07-30-2010
This from Garrett's Website:
Oil Supply & Drainage
Journal Bearing Turbo
Journal-bearings function similarly to rod or crank bearings in an engine - oil pressure is required to keep components separated. An oil restrictor is generally not needed except for oil-pressure-induced leakage. The recommended oil feed for journal bearing turbochargers is -4AN or hose/tubing with an ID of approximately 0.25.
Be sure to use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
Ball Bearing Turbo
An oil restrictor is recommended for optimal performance with ball bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure of 40 - 45 psi at maximum engine speed is recommended to prevent damage to the turbocharger's internals. In order to achieve this pressure, a restrictor with a 0.040' (1mm) orifice will normally suffice, but you should always verify the oil pressure entering the turbo after the restrictor in insure that the components are functioning properly.
Recommended oil feed is -3AN or -4AN line or hose/tubing with a similar ID. As always, use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
OIL LEAKAGE SHOULD NOT OCCUR ON A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING
SYSTEM IF RESTRICTOR IS NOT USED UNLESS THE SYSTEM
PRESSURE IS EXCESSIVELY HIGH.
Oil Drain
In general, the larger the oil drain, the better. However, a -10AN is typically sufficient
for proper oil drainage, but try not to have an inner diameter smaller than the drain hole
in the housing as this will likely cause the oil to back up in the center housing. Speaking
of oil backing up in the center housing, a gravity feed needs to be just that! The oil
outlet should follow the direction of gravity +/-35° when installed in the vehicle on level
ground. If a gravity feed is not possible, a scavenge pump should be used to insure that
oil flows freely away from the center housing.
Avoid:
Undulations in the line or extended lengths parallel to the ground
Draining into oil pan below oil level
Dead heading into a component behind the oil pan
Area behind the oil pan (windage tray window) where oil sling occurs from crankshaft
When installing your turbocharger, insure that the turbocharger axis of rotation is parallel
to the level ground within +/- 15°. This means that the oil inlet/outlet should be within
15° of being perpendicular to level ground.
Oil pressure is 107psi at cold start and above 3500rpm hot.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-31-2010
(07-30-2010, 06:45 PM)ForcedInduction This from Garrett's Website:
Oil Supply & Drainage
Journal Bearing Turbo
Journal-bearings function similarly to rod or crank bearings in an engine - oil pressure is required to keep components separated. An oil restrictor is generally not needed except for oil-pressure-induced leakage. The recommended oil feed for journal bearing turbochargers is -4AN or hose/tubing with an ID of approximately 0.25.
Be sure to use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
Ball Bearing Turbo
An oil restrictor is recommended for optimal performance with ball bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure of 40 - 45 psi at maximum engine speed is recommended to prevent damage to the turbocharger's internals. In order to achieve this pressure, a restrictor with a 0.040' (1mm) orifice will normally suffice, but you should always verify the oil pressure entering the turbo after the restrictor in insure that the components are functioning properly.
Recommended oil feed is -3AN or -4AN line or hose/tubing with a similar ID. As always, use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
OIL LEAKAGE SHOULD NOT OCCUR ON A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING
SYSTEM IF RESTRICTOR IS NOT USED UNLESS THE SYSTEM
PRESSURE IS EXCESSIVELY HIGH.
Oil Drain
In general, the larger the oil drain, the better. However, a -10AN is typically sufficient
for proper oil drainage, but try not to have an inner diameter smaller than the drain hole
in the housing as this will likely cause the oil to back up in the center housing. Speaking
of oil backing up in the center housing, a gravity feed needs to be just that! The oil
outlet should follow the direction of gravity +/-35° when installed in the vehicle on level
ground. If a gravity feed is not possible, a scavenge pump should be used to insure that
oil flows freely away from the center housing.
Avoid:
Undulations in the line or extended lengths parallel to the ground
Draining into oil pan below oil level
Dead heading into a component behind the oil pan
Area behind the oil pan (windage tray window) where oil sling occurs from crankshaft
When installing your turbocharger, insure that the turbocharger axis of rotation is parallel
to the level ground within +/- 15°. This means that the oil inlet/outlet should be within
15° of being perpendicular to level ground.
Oil pressure is 107psi at cold start and above 3500rpm hot.
That is for a ball bearing turbo, I am using a journal bearing turbo. As I said, it is my project and if I decide put more oil AND it fails then I just have to buy another adapter, a few dollars. I don't want to run into problems of not having sufficient oil and having the compressor wheel contact the housing - you know this well with your attempt at installing the Holset.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 07-31-2010
(07-31-2010, 07:56 AM)Rudolf_Diesel That is for a ball bearing turbo, I am using a journal bearing turbo.I quoted exactly what you posted in #250
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/new-project-skunkwerks-em9d-t-858-5.html#pid15318
Quote:I don't want to run into problems of not having sufficient oil and having the compressor wheel contact the housing - you know this well with your attempt at installing the Holset.Do we REALLY need to go over this again. The holset's failure was NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE OIL SYSTEM.
There will be NO more discussion on that INCORRECT theory of my Holset's demise. It was 100% thoroughly disproven yet you people still clasp onto that completely incorrect idea. DROP IT, You're wrong. Simple as that. End. Of. Discussion.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-31-2010
What I posted was about the needs of a journal bearing turbo and that is what I have.
A far as the rest of your post I will not go an further with that subject as it is serves no purpose on this particular thread.
As far as my knowledge, well, your opinion is yours and you know what they say about opinions.....BTW, I see you edited your remark.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-31-2010
(07-31-2010, 08:14 AM)ForcedInduction(07-31-2010, 08:09 AM)Rudolf_Diesel What I posted was about the needs of a journal bearing turbo and that is what I have.DOH. You're right. I just skimmed the article and I didn't notice that it was about different turbo types.
Quote:A far as the rest of your post I will not go an further with that subject as it is serves no purpose on this particular thread.Mature choice.Hopefully jeemu will learn to do the same in his thread.
Quote:BTW, I see you edited you remark.To add information.
Ok, fair enough, I don't really want to go into this, but I read it before you did the edit.
Anyway I am here to learn and educate - I will stay on task.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 07-31-2010
(07-31-2010, 08:17 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Anyway I am here to learn and educate - I will stay on task.
Wunderbar! I can't wait to see the project completed and in action!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-01-2010
Getting some things done today and it is coming together well. I have drive shaft on my list today, hopefully it will cool down and I will have it done by the end of the day.
A few pics of the progress:
Back side of I/C
New and improved oil line fittings
View of turbo side
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-01-2010
Decided to say ef it and get it done - finished the drive shaft, flex discs, center bearing/ support and a nice and clean heat shield.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - winmutt - 08-01-2010
Looks good. Nothing like stickin it out for a few extra hours. Always makes for sweet dreams later that night
.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-01-2010
(08-01-2010, 07:31 PM)winmutt Looks good. Nothing like stickin it out for a few extra hours. Always makes for sweet dreams later that night
Tell me about, I am beat, I had to go to the wrecking yard also to get a new Glow pulg relay, mine was melted at the + input, I found one a nice set of MW injector lines that look faily new.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 08-01-2010
Ummm, Why do I recognize your new profile pic??? bahahahaha!!!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - meareweird - 08-03-2010
Every time I look at this I am struck at how beautiful it is good job with the engine. It rivals the finnish guys work even. Btw if you are completely wrong and blow the engine I suggest putting it in a glass box and using as coffee table
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - JB3 - 08-03-2010
you may have already mentioned this, but what are you using for flex discs again? did you say V8 discs? The one on the front looks pretty impressive. The rear one looks way stronger as well, with far more metal to rubber ratio.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 01:13 PM)dropnosky you may have already mentioned this, but what are you using for flex discs again? did you say V8 discs? The one on the front looks pretty impressive. The rear one looks way stronger as well, with far more metal to rubber ratio.
Standard flex discs for a 300SD, but the front also has a dampening ring...it always looks bigger in the picture
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - squirrelmaster - 08-04-2010
So how is The injection Pump comeing along?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-04-2010
(08-04-2010, 04:23 PM)squirrelmaster So how is The injection Pump comeing along?
It will be here on Friday or Saturday and as soon as I can get some pics I will post them.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 08-04-2010
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. Time goes sooo slowly sometimes...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-04-2010
(08-04-2010, 05:59 PM)Biohazard Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. Time goes sooo slowly sometimes...
Please get here Friday!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - supercharged3.0 - 08-07-2010
Looking good )) Keep going
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-07-2010
It's HERE!!!
Pump arrived today and I have been busy all week as well getting it together. I am still dry fitting a few pieces to make sure it is all going to fit, so far so good. It is a tight fit, but it all seems to be going together well.
Here are a few pics of the progress.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 08-08-2010
Please take lots of video's when its running!!!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - supercharged3.0 - 08-08-2010
This is a pure porn )))))))
I can not wait to see it running )))
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 08-08-2010
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Alastair E - 08-08-2010
That is absolutely beautiful work.....
But, do yourself a favour.....
Get some Clamps on those Injection-Hard-Lines!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 08-08-2010
Did you run it yet? Did you run it yet!?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-08-2010
(08-08-2010, 05:06 AM)Alastair E That is absolutely beautiful work.....
But, do yourself a favour.....
Get some Clamps on those Injection-Hard-Lines!
I have the clamps, but I still have to remove the hard lines for 4 and 5 as I put the rest of it together. This thing is like a zipper, each piece has to fit perfectly and in the right spot and at the right time. Once it is complete then the clamps go on.
(08-08-2010, 12:27 AM)willbhere4u Please take lots of video's when its running!!!
I plan on it, I need to invest in a digital video camera to get some good footage.
(08-08-2010, 05:41 AM)ForcedInduction Did you run it yet? Did you run it yet!?
In due time Grasshoppa
As bad as I want to start it and run it, I am getting the A/C hoses squared away so I can get the hoses crimped. I need to bolt on the exhaust and finish that as well. I am hoping by Wednesday I will start and test run...maybe earlier if I can't wait any longer.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - squirrelmaster - 08-08-2010
Oh boy! I Can't wait to get my pump back from dave
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - yankneck696 - 08-08-2010
AWESOME !!!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 08-08-2010
Braaaap!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 08-08-2010
(08-08-2010, 03:00 PM)squirrelmaster Oh boy! I Can't wait to get my pump back from dave
You and me both amigo!!
Chompin at the bit over here...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - tomnik - 08-09-2010
thanks God it's not me causing the delay...
But if it helps: Imagine the delivery time for the future in case Rudolf's IP runs at all
Jokin', all settings are reported and Rudolf's was to learn where to touch it.
Tom
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 08-09-2010
(08-09-2010, 12:02 AM)tomnik thanks God it's not me causing the delay...
But if it helps: Imagine the delivery time for the future in case Rudolf's IP runs at all
Jokin', all settings are reported and Rudolf's was to learn where to touch it.
Tom
Haha! I'm going to be ready for the pump when it gets to me, but I've got plenty to keep me busy till it shows up. I'm going to be a busy boy when I get back from Bonneville... I'm sure the next couple of pumps will go quicker, now that DervTuning knows what settings are working best.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - yankneck696 - 08-09-2010
Just as in all new frontiers, things need to hacked & mapped. I applaud all involved & when I can get a 1:1 reversing trans for my Penn Yan, I'm gonna stuff a 617 in it with one of thede pumps !!!!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-09-2010
(08-09-2010, 12:02 AM)tomnik thanks God it's not me causing the delay...
But if it helps: Imagine the delivery time for the future in case Rudolf's IP runs at all
Jokin', all settings are reported and Rudolf's was to learn where to touch it.
Tom
One of the reasons it took so long was the fact that yes this was the first 7.5mm element installation; secondly, mother nature was not kind to our firends on the East coast, i.e. ice storms and power outages and HOT weather and power outages, which had caused delays; and thirdly the pump was to be delivered as a turn key.
The settings were gone over and over to make sure it would idle like a stock pump and deliver fuel like a top fueler (one would hope). The pump was not only bench tested , it was installed quite a few times on a real world vehicle and tested and tested and tested some more!
The end result, a turn key, kick ass pump that will now be the desired setup and Myna will be the second choice.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - HughF_UK - 08-09-2010
Rudolf,
As I've been PM'ing Tom about, any information that your pump builder is willing to share with us here in the UK is would be very much appreciated. I have a local diesel shop who I have worked with for many years and they are keen to build me a 6 cylinder M pump for my 606 with some of Tom's elements, so any help is appreciated.
When are we going to get a video of it running
Hugh
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DervTuning - 08-10-2010
Amazing work Rudolf
Good to see the Super M pump shining in the southern California sun!
The final setting of the high idle screw (max rpm) was exactly 1.5 turns CW. Until you get used to the power and response of the engine, I suggest returning the high idle to the bench verified, stock setting of exactly 1.5 revolutions CCW
Hugh, I will send you a PM.
(08-09-2010, 10:28 AM)HughF_UK Rudolf,
As I've been PM'ing Tom about, any information that your pump builder is willing to share with us here in the UK is would be very much appreciated. I have a local diesel shop who I have worked with for many years and they are keen to build me a 6 cylinder M pump for my 606 with some of Tom's elements, so any help is appreciated.
When are we going to get a video of it running
Hugh
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - tomnik - 08-10-2010
oh David,
did you inform Rudolf that he has to keep max. rev below 2000/min for the first 2000 mi for running in the pump??
Rudolf, I am sure your excellent work and the performance will set the level quite high.
Tom
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-10-2010
(08-10-2010, 02:04 PM)tomnik oh David,
did you inform Rudolf that he has to keep max. rev below 2000/min for the first 2000 mi for running in the pump??
Rudolf, I am sure your excellent work and the performance will set the level quite high.
Tom
Das ist Scheiße
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 08-10-2010
(08-10-2010, 02:14 PM)Rudolf_Diesel^^^^???^^^^^(08-10-2010, 02:04 PM)tomnik oh David,
did you inform Rudolf that he has to keep max. rev below 2000/min for the first 2000 mi for running in the pump??
Rudolf, I am sure your excellent work and the performance will set the level quite high.
Tom
Das ist Scheiße
Dunno if I'd be able to run the pump in properly, I would probly end up firing it up and after checking to make sure every things cool.... Pin it!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - altamonte - 08-10-2010
First of all - way cool. Reminds me of the compound turbo Wright radial engines on the Connie.
Very cool - low end boost until the turbo spools up enough to push more air at high RPMs.
So now you need a clutch on the supercharger which will cut it out whenver the RPMs get high enough - some simple pressure micro-switch which will return to supercharger when the turbo boost comes down - differential pressure sensor perhaps between the two sides ?
Ahhh, to have mad time to do something like this. I'll just keep to simple projects like puting a turbo OM606 into a w140.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-10-2010
(08-08-2010, 02:38 AM)Biohazard
Dude...I kept trying to figure out WTF is that from and my son told me and I started laughing may ass off!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
I thought it was your angry face, not your "O" face
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - HughF_UK - 08-11-2010
(08-10-2010, 12:24 PM)DervTuning Hugh, I will send you a PM.
Much appreciated David, I await your PM with interest.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 08-11-2010
(08-10-2010, 07:38 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Dude...I kept trying to figure out WTF is that from and my son told me and I started laughing may ass off!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
I thought it was your angry face, not your "O" face
Hahaha!
How goes the install / finishing? Looking forward to seeing what I'm sure will be another super sano install with the a/c and exhaust.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DervTuning - 08-11-2010
Oh no, I told him to keep the max revs to only 1500/min for ~2000 mi! I hope he reads this
Hugh, PM sent
Damn funny video!
(08-10-2010, 02:04 PM)tomnik oh David,
did you inform Rudolf that he has to keep max. rev below 2000/min for the first 2000 mi for running in the pump??
Rudolf, I am sure your excellent work and the performance will set the level quite high.
Tom
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-11-2010
Got it started and made a quick video, really crappy, but IT'S ALIVE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUwlDkPtxqg
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ID240D - 08-11-2010
Just read through this thread....Incredible buildup and the engine sounds awesome!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 08-11-2010
sweet love that sound!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 08-11-2010
A couple of issues...
1. I think the power steering pump is kaput. I do not have any power steering - I rotated it by hand and the fluid from the box did pump into the resevoir (it was red in the steering box and the fluid in the reservoir was clear, now it is all red).
2. The A/C bracket was made from a precision aluminum cast plate and it had some flex - well it broke, no big deal. I just now have to make it out of steel and add some gussets to the back side.
3. It sounds like the coupling in the supercharger may have a little play, I didn't think it needed to be replaced, but I guess I was wrong. No big deal, all part of the shake down process.
4. One of the copper washers for the turbo water cooling lines is leaking, I tightened it, but it still has a small leak.
It sounds wicked and needs to be driven!