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+--- Thread: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D (/showthread.php?tid=858)
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - E300TSC - 09-09-2010
You "treed" him. He was asleep at the switch with the .723 R/T. Add your R/T to your time and his to his time and you get the actual times.
I hate the standard light sequence and prefer a "pro" tree. The standard sequence gets me antsy waiting for the green. For a better R/T, try fixing your eyes on the last yellow before the green. Don't watch the lights come down, just fix your stare on the yellow. When it comes on, GO! Forget the green. It takes the car that last half second to get moving. Beware though, if you stage too deep, you'll red light.
Inch forward until you just light the last stage light and don't move any further.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-09-2010
(09-09-2010, 06:02 AM)E300TSC You "treed" him. He was asleep at the switch with the .723 R/T. Add your R/T to your time and his to his time and you get the actual times.
I hate the standard light sequence and prefer a "pro" tree. The standard sequence gets me antsy waiting for the green. For a better R/T, try fixing your eyes on the last yellow before the green. Don't watch the lights come down, just fix your stare on the yellow. When it comes on, GO! Forget the green. It takes the car that last half second to get moving. Beware though, if you stage too deep, you'll red light.
Inch forward until you just light the last stage light and don't move any further.
That makes sense...I kept trying to figure out where the .0398 number derived from, it is the difference between his time and my time with the added R/T.
I usually prefer the Sportsman lights, I am on the opposite side of the spectrum and get antsy over waiting for the green on a Pro tree
On the Sportsman tree I wait until the third yellow illumintes, but I have been asleep and not leaving as soon as it turns yellow. If you are paying attention you can actually see it start to glow before it turns on completely.
I will pay more attention to staging and do a "deep stage", I believe that is what it is called.
There is a whole art form to just launching the vehicle, let alone actual racing.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-09-2010
Am I the only one that wants to see a burnout video before you get rid of the auto trans??? You know, put it out of its misery ... !!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 09-09-2010
Screw boring burnouts, I want to see the breaking point of the transmission.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-09-2010
The breaking point is included in the burnout if done properly
Get that trans temp up, rev the motor and shift! haha pretend there is a clutch and see what happens
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - E300TSC - 09-09-2010
(09-09-2010, 07:12 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I will pay more attention to staging and do a "deep stage", I believe that is what it is called.
There is a whole art form to just launching the vehicle, let alone actual racing.
Some strips use the LED lights now so you don't get the whole "pre-glow" effect. Deep staging is rolling forward until the pre-stage light turns out. You'll red light if you deep stage and leave on the yellow.
Shallow staging gives you a little roll out so the vehicle gets moving before tripping the timer.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-10-2010
Rudolf invited me to go to the Irwindale Speedway 1/8 mile drags last night and it was a blast! I believe he made a total of 5 passes (3 of which before I got there). I shot video for him for the last 2 passes. The man needs a trans! The ole 300 definitely gets the "what the hell is this thing doing here" looks and comments and the "that thing stinks" haha but then when the hood pops open ..... This happens
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - meareweird - 09-10-2010
That is an awesome picture!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 09-10-2010
That picture is priceless
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - garage - 09-10-2010
Hmmm..
I coulda swore i read that there was more video of this car...THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-10-2010
There Is! Rudolf must be busy working on everyone's projects lol
I know it's hard but be patient, he will post em...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-11-2010
So this probably belongs in the Transmission section, I will post some information there as well...
As you know I have been having some trans issues since the S/C and the Über pump - mainly flaring and some high speed slippage. The high speed slippage occurs when I am cruising on the freeway and I floor it and the RPMs and boost rise, but the MPH stays the same.
I did some research and found that many of the guys running autos and drag race use something called "tractor fluid". Upon further research I found that specifically use John Deere "Hy-Gard" transmission and hydraulic fluid for heavy equipment and tractors. I use Sweepco 714 in my truck, which is basically the same type of fluid, but supposedly the best out there. Sweepco is used in throphy truck auto transmissions and they sometimes run up to 400*F and the oil does not break down. Sweepco is supposed to have an additional additive that the Hy-Gard does not, but the Hy-Gard is only $14.00+ / gallon vs. the Sweepco at $32.00 / gallon.
I purchased 2-1/2 gallons of Hy-Gard on Friday from a John Deere dealer in a nearby town (home of West Coast Choppers). I also purchased 2 gallons of Wal-mart brand Dex III to aid in flushing the trans. Other supplies needed were a 5 gallon bucket and 3/4" I.D. clear vinyl hose.
I removed the trans cooler line from the passenger side of the radiator and installed the vinyl hose on the rubber hose coming from the radiator and ran the vinyl hose into the 5 gallon bucket. I started the car and as the fluid was coming out of the hose and into the bucket I was adding the fresh Dex III into the dipstick tube. I poured 8 qts. into the trans and ran the motor with my assistant putting the trans through the gears and leaving it in drive until the fluid onl started to trickle out of the vinyl hose. At this point I stopped the engine and I drained the balance of the fluid from the pan and also drained the torque converter. I let it drain for about 45 minutes until it looked like it was only a few drops.
Most of the guys that are running the Hy-Gard use at least one quart of tranny fluid for coloring the base fluid and for some of the additvies, but mainly for color. I added 6 qts. to start and took it for a test drive, really quick to see if all was well. I also needed to adjust my my linkage since the motor was lowered and the linkage was off a bit.
I took it for a test drive and I CAN feel a difference, the shifting is a little firmer, yet not harsh. Those that have used it described it as "grippy". On hard accelleration, there is a slight flare between 2-3, but not as bad as before. When I am on the freeway it still slips a bit, but if I back off on the throttle a bit, the speed catches up to the RPMs.
I will report more as I drive it some more and allow the fluid to do its' magic....The other thing I need to do is use a smaller orifice and see if that helps 2-3 shifting.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 09-11-2010
How does it run when you don't use vacuum at all? Have you adjusted up the modulator pressure?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-11-2010
(09-11-2010, 04:09 PM)ForcedInduction How does it run when you don't use vacuum at all? Have you adjusted up the modulator pressure?
I drove it at the track without vacuum and it was better...I will try today since the fluid change and see if it is better.
I am going to check the pressures this week and see if that nees to be adjusted as well.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-11-2010
Good to hear the fluid is making a difference.
I do not know what the valve body looks like or how it works in these cars; but with my Turbo 350 trans in my Sprint I removed the valve body and drilled out the holes in the separator plate where the 1-2 and 2-3 clutch apply fluid passes through. This didn't make the trans shift harder per-say but much firmer and quicker as the volume allowed to apply the clutches was increase significantly...
I dunno if this will help the 722 but it might be worth looking into.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 09-11-2010
I thought there was a spring upgrade in the valve body available for these cars to eliminate the shifting flair between 2,3 shift I found a few years ago doing research but I cant remember where I found it???
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - tomnik - 09-12-2010
this one ?
http://www.ctpowertrain.com/servlet/the-469/722.3-722.4-Diesel-Kit/Detail
Tom
(09-11-2010, 07:36 PM)willbhere4u I thought there was a spring upgrade in the valve body available for these cars to eliminate the shifting flair between 2,3 shift I found a few years ago doing research but I cant remember where I found it???
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-12-2010
(09-12-2010, 01:25 AM)tomnik this one ?
http://www.ctpowertrain.com/servlet/the-469/722.3-722.4-Diesel-Kit/Detail
Tom
(09-11-2010, 07:36 PM)willbhere4u I thought there was a spring upgrade in the valve body available for these cars to eliminate the shifting flair between 2,3 shift I found a few years ago doing research but I cant remember where I found it???
Thanks! I just ordered the kit and it should be here before next Saturday...hopefully I can get it in there before I go to Fontana.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-12-2010
I checked the modulator pressure today and it was 3.4 bar - spec for 722.315 (my trans case #) calls for 2.9 bar. I set it to spec and it shifted really nice and smooth, like you would expect a luxury car to shift...but that is not what I am after. I ended up setting the pressure at 3.7 bar and it seems to be doing well. I will leave it at this settimg for a few days and see if it is good. It takes about 10 mins. to hook up gauge and make the adjustment so no big deal to may adjustments if needed.
As I stated earlier I ordered a spring kit, so hopefully I will get it by early next week and install before the races on Saturday.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DeliveryValve - 09-12-2010
(09-12-2010, 10:28 AM)Rudolf_Diesel(09-12-2010, 01:25 AM)tomnik this one ?
http://www.ctpowertrain.com/servlet/the-469/722.3-722.4-Diesel-Kit/Detail
Tom
(09-11-2010, 07:36 PM)willbhere4u I thought there was a spring upgrade in the valve body available for these cars to eliminate the shifting flair between 2,3 shift I found a few years ago doing research but I cant remember where I found it???
Thanks! I just ordered the kit and it should be here before next Saturday...hopefully I can get it in there before I go to Fontana.
R_D just a note, if your unhappy with 2-3 and the rest of the shifting is acceptable, then only change out the K1 springs. Very easy to do and can do it without removing valve body, located on driver's side front of valve body. If you use the whole kit, then the rest of the shifting characteristics will change. Possibly to an unacceptable manner.
Another note, K2 spring for firmer 3-4 is easy to get at also, located driver's side rear of the valve body. 1-2 will need to split the valve body.
.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-13-2010
(09-12-2010, 06:49 PM)DeliveryValve R_D just a note, if your unhappy with 2-3 and the rest of the shifting is acceptable, then only change out the K1 springs. Very easy to do and can do it without removing valve body, located on driver's side front of valve body. If you use the whole kit, then the rest of the shifting characteristics will change. Possibly to an unacceptable manner.
Another note, K2 spring for firmer 3-4 is easy to get at also, located driver's side rear of the valve body. 1-2 will need to split the valve body.
Thanks for the tips...from what I have read so far, most seem to be happy with the K1 / K2 spring swap. I don't really want to mess with the valve body. I should have the kit tomorrow and installed on Wed.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 09-13-2010
Hope it works out well!
I was seriously thinking of this upgrade in my 300sd before a bad junk yard oil cooler killed it
don't buy used oil coolers ever! You can never get all of the crap out from a previous engine failure!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Silberpfeil - 09-14-2010
Rudolf I have to ask if a Tremec 6 speed would be a possibility for your conversion? Is it possible and you just have a 5 speed already?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-15-2010
(09-14-2010, 10:19 PM)Silberpfeil Rudolf I have to ask if a Tremec 6 speed would be a possibility for your conversion? Is it possible and you just have a 5 speed already?
The 6 speed is cost prohibitive and the size is another issue - I also have a good deal on the five speed.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-15-2010
Okay I got my trans kit today and will install tomorrow after work. I am going to firm up the shifts on 2-3 and 3-4 as firm as they will go...firm = less slip.
So as far as I can tell, correct me if I am wrong, I need to eliminate all of the highlighted pieces for K1/k2 (except for plates) and install the new springs in their respective positions, right?
K1 spring (purple)
K2 spring (pink)
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DeliveryValve - 09-15-2010
(09-15-2010, 09:08 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
So as far as I can tell, correct me if I am wrong, I need to eliminate all of the highlighted pieces for K1/k2 (except for plates) and install the new springs in their respective positions, right?
...
Almost got it right.
You'll need the green pistons (after the plate) that the springs go into. All the other internal springs and plastic retainers are put away for safe keeping. .
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-15-2010
Got it, thanks! The instructions are not the greatest, and I wasn't sure if I need the piston..I only want to do it once!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-16-2010
I got the springs for K1 / K2 installed and what a difference! It shifts relatively normal if you just cruise, but get on it and it shifts FIRM, not harsh, but nice and firm. I have not tested with max fuel yet, but it should make a difference their too.
It is too bad that I had to buy an entire kit for $55.00 and I only needed two springs. If any one wants to firm up their trans and needs some springs, I am willing to sell for a few bucks each.
I have also been working on a solution to my bypass valve operation. I was having an issue with the bypass valves fluttering because of the pressure dropping and the valves closing and the cycle repeating - the boost gauge would bounce and you could hear the S/C making a "woo woo woo" sound... as the valve opened and closed.
I designed a new circuit that is working really nice, it is the best it has run since the S/C was installed. It uses two micro switches, one pressure switch, two relays and a solenoid valve to control the vacuum signal. Below is the schematic:
I know what some are saying, you can do that with vacuum valves, you don't need to use all those electrics...well I prefer to use electrcial controls, that is what I do for a living and it is very easy to work with.
As I drive and the boost gets to the set point, CR1 energizes and is held by an aux. set of contacts. SW1 is a reset that is activated when the throttle linkage is at rest - idle. There is an additional switch for WOT that closes the bypass valves and allows for the S/C to pump some air to the turbo. I have also incorporated a switch to bypass the system when I drag race.
Before this the car would cruise on the freeway at 65 and the boost would be at whatever I had the pressure switch set to. Now it will be at 3 psi and when I add fuel the turbo starts to spool and we have boost, If I floor it, the boost comes on instantly from the S/C.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DeliveryValve - 09-17-2010
Good to hear the two springs worked out.
Thanks for posting your by-pass solution. It's always great when you can use what you know for other things to fix an issue.
.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ConnClark - 09-17-2010
(09-16-2010, 10:10 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Before this the car would cruise on the freeway at 65 and the boost would be at whatever I had the pressure switch set to. Now it will be at 3 psi and when I add fuel the turbo starts to spool and we have boost, If I floor it, the boost comes on instantly from the S/C.
Shouldn't it be at 4 to 5 psi at 65?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-17-2010
(09-17-2010, 12:34 PM)ConnClark(09-16-2010, 10:10 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Before this the car would cruise on the freeway at 65 and the boost would be at whatever I had the pressure switch set to. Now it will be at 3 psi and when I add fuel the turbo starts to spool and we have boost, If I floor it, the boost comes on instantly from the S/C.
Shouldn't it be at 4 to 5 psi at 65?
It could be, I looked at the gauge real quick and it looked like 3, but does it really matter? Remember, this is not the tiny OEM turbo...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-17-2010
Does it matter what the boost is? The lower the boost required to maintain a speed is good right? It is related to airflow efficiency through the engine correct? I believe this is where Forced comes in with all his fancy facts....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 09-17-2010
Boost cools combustion, just a few psi on the highway will cool EGTs by 100* or so. Its a tradeoff; cooler combustion means less heat waste into the cooling system but boost means exhaust backpressure.
I've found with my VNT that under 45mph my engine likes cruising without any boost, above that it likes having 5psi.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ConnClark - 09-17-2010
More boost also means more complete combustion.
Edit: If the turbo is sized and matched right at some RPMs and fuel levels boost pressure exceeds back pressure.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-17-2010
I have 2 lbs of boost at idle and I have 3-5 lbs of boost at 65 mph depending on my foot, the EGTS are around 650, depending on my foot and accelerator is not far from idle position...no blacksmoke and low egt's means I am not wasting fuel, when I accelerate boost comes on smooth and power is there and no black smoke which means complete combustion. Little to no boost = less stress on the parts as well.
Next week I will try to get e consistent tank on this set up and see what the fuel milage is.
As far as EMP, it is either equal to or a few lbs. higher then the boost pressure and it is also lower depending on the load - yes I have experienced all of these scenarios. I believe it meets or exceeds my expectations for back pressure in the exhaust system.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-17-2010
Dunno if this is good or not but I'm at like 6psi @ 65mph and 9psi @ 75-80mph....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-17-2010
(09-17-2010, 05:58 PM)Captain America Dunno if this is good or not but I'm at like 6psi @ 65mph and 9psi @ 75-80mph....
That is not a bad thing, I used to make similar readings with my old turbo and the OEM as well. In my truck I get 5 at 70 and when I floor it it gets up to about 28.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ConnClark - 09-17-2010
(09-17-2010, 05:29 PM)Rudolf_Diesel As far as EMP, it is either equal to or a few lbs. higher then the boost pressure and it is also lower depending on the load - yes I have experienced all of these scenarios. I believe it meets or exceeds my expectations for back pressure in the exhaust system.
If you ever get a chance to play on a dyno get a plot of both your pressures vs power and torque. Depending on what your after, you can adjust the point at which you make more boost than backpressure and the point at which you have the highest ratio of boost to back pressure by playing with the AR ratios of your turbine and compressor housings. A turbo gives maximum benefit at the highest ratio of boost to back pressure.
A VGT effectively allows you to change the AR ratio of the turbine on the fly which is why they are so great.
Since you are intercooling that means a lower boost pressure would deliver the same amount of air. However I don't think that your cooling enough to cram the same amount of air at just 3psi. Also remember that also since your intercooling that your EGTs would be lower than stock if you were getting the same amount of air. If your getting the same EGTs as stock with less air you will be subjecting some engine components to higher peak thermal loads than normal. To what degree this offsets benefits of lower pressures I'm not sure of.
I get 6psi at about 65 and 9psi at 80 like Captain America with my car too. More boost at 65 would probably get you better mileage. Of course I don't think mileage is your main goal.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-17-2010
Mr. Clark, What is your setup? I don't see anything on your car... Nice to know my car is normal? Always seemed to me to be a bit high, but maybe not.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - meareweird - 09-18-2010
I think this should be the new front page pic!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ConnClark - 09-18-2010
(09-17-2010, 09:15 PM)Captain America Mr. Clark, What is your setup? I don't see anything on your car... Nice to know my car is normal? Always seemed to me to be a bit high, but maybe not.
I have kludged a SDL turbo on to my 85 Kalifornistani 300SD. The 50 trim compressor helps off set the detrimental effects of the trap ox/cat on the top end. I also threw a cherry bomb on my exhaust. Eventually I will ditch the cat and have a intercooler welded to my intake manifold. Right now I need to get another turbo as the one I have has is leaking oil on the front seal.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 12:11 PM)ConnClark(09-17-2010, 09:15 PM)Captain America Mr. Clark, What is your setup? I don't see anything on your car... Nice to know my car is normal? Always seemed to me to be a bit high, but maybe not.
I have kludged a SDL turbo on to my 85 Kalifornistani 300SD.
Come again? lol
(09-18-2010, 09:51 AM)meareweird
I think this should be the new front page pic!
Good idea! I will second that motion... Make a poll!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - DeliveryValve - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 02:03 PM)Captain America(09-18-2010, 12:11 PM)ConnClark(09-17-2010, 09:15 PM)Captain America Mr. Clark, What is your setup? I don't see anything on your car... Nice to know my car is normal? Always seemed to me to be a bit high, but maybe not.
I have kludged a SDL turbo on to my 85 Kalifornistani 300SD.
Come again? lol
...
Conn put the compressor wheel and compressor housing from an OM603 on a 617 turbo. Pretty cool feat when I seen the thing in person at a PNW GTG a few years ago.
.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 09-18-2010
Delivery Valve where did you get that pic a w123 with a hood prop is that from the factory? Oh ya nice looking girl as well!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 09:14 PM)willbhere4u Delivery Valve where did you get that pic a w123 with a hood prop is that from the factory? Oh ya nice looking girl as well!
I'm guessing the same place these come from..
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1503902-girls-w123-photos-14.html
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - yankneck696 - 09-19-2010
No poll nessecary.... Front page material !!!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-19-2010
I went out to Fontana Speedway yesterday to do some 1/4 mile racing, we got there around noon and did the tech inspection - no problems. After finding a spot we waited for some other benz entusiasts - a few guys from Peachparts and 500ecstay. One of the 500E's was a sweet ride, looked like it came off the showroom floor - that will be my next Mercedes
It was in the low 90's and I made a few runs, my first one was against a Jaguar with a SBC and purpose built to race. My second run was against a 1940 Ford with a blown small block - so far V8s. I raced 5 times and did pretty well, each time improving my times. After the first two runs I advanced the pump a few more degrees and it runs like a champ now.
I am getting the holeshot and leading, but it is reaching a plateau which I think maybe due to the S/C limiting the air flow. I made all my runs with the S/C pumping into the turbo. The next runs at Irwindale I will make with the S/C bypass actuating and letting the turbo breath alone.
I met some really nice people out there and there is a trend, my car attracts a crowd and people are amazed at the engineering that was invloved - makes me proud!
I met a guy out there that is not a member of this website, but has been following the thread since day one, now that is cool.The transmission shifted great, no flaring and no slipping! I would recommend the spring upgrade to anyone with an automatic trans.
Here are my time slips from my better runs, sorry no wins, but I think I can be proud of the outcome...I aim to be better the next time. My plan is to add an electric fuel pump to see if that may be the issue with lack of power as well.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - E300TSC - 09-19-2010
Very, VERY nice R/T's! Great job!
Was the 240SX guy handicapped? He got the LB3A but you clearly left before him... Cornfused...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 09-19-2010
(09-19-2010, 04:26 PM)E300TSC Was the 240SX guy handicapped? He got the LB3A but you clearly left before him... Cornfused...
Looks like he got red.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-19-2010
(09-19-2010, 04:26 PM)E300TSC Very, VERY nice R/T's! Great job!
Was the 240SX guy handicapped? He got the LB3A but you clearly left before him... Cornfused...
I am not sure what happened, I am assuming "LB3A" means Left Before 3rd Amber, is that correct?
I staged as shallow as I could and it worked out pretty good. On the first run I got to the line and was a bit antsy...I staged and said to myself...I know I am suppoesed to be doing something right now and wham it turns green