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+--- Thread: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) (/showthread.php?tid=1024)
602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 01-13-2010
Hello, my name is Josh and I've been lurking around the forum for a few months now.
This thread will cover the installation of a GT2056V from a 2007 Dodge Sprinter on my 92 300D 2.5 Turbo. I recently noticed damage to the compressor fins of the stock turbo. This was accompanied by a significant power loss.
I have acquired this turbo from John (Tymbrymi) who was using it to experiment with the electronic actuator.
My current plan is to install the GT2056V on the existing exhaust manifold.
Primary challenges that I face are as follows:
1.) The turbine inlet is rear facing and will require a 90 degree bend to the manifolds T-25 flange
2.) The turbine outlet is non-standard. I will have to fabricate a flange to attach it to the exhaust.
3.) The turbo was pedestal mounted on the OM642 V6 and both the oil feed and return are located side-by-side on a flat surface on the bottom of the center housing. However, there is another oil passage on the top which was plugged by a M12? bolt and crush washer. I believe I can use this as an alternate oil feed. I plan on incorporating the oil drain with the turbo support.
4.) I plan on ditching the electronic actuator in favor of a pneumatic setup which I have seen on the forum.
Is there anything obvious that I am missing here? I'm trying to begin mounting the turbo within the next week or two, after I purchase the required parts.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 01-13-2010
Here are some pictures of the new turbo:
Here's the turbo in all of its glory. (this is actually upside down)
This is the bolt which might possibly cover the secondary oil feed port.
This is what it looked like with the bolt and crush washer removed. This is on the top of the center section.
Mounting point for turbo support. The large hole in the center is the oil drain, the smaller one next to it is the feed. This is the bottom of the center section.
Turbine outlet and inlet.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 01-14-2010
(01-13-2010, 08:34 PM)joshwho44 1.) The turbine inlet is rear facing and will require a 90 degree bend to the manifolds T-25 flangeWhy not use the non-turbo manifold and a U-tube?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Tymbrymi - 01-14-2010
(01-14-2010, 06:43 AM)ForcedInduction Why not use the non-turbo manifold and a U-tube?
What year 190D's were NA? The exhaust manifold for the turbo seems to flow much better than that NA and would only require a 90 instead of a 180.
I've attached some additional pictures I took a while back...
Overview of turbo
Another view of turbo. The large flat area is where the pedestal mount goes...
Two pictures of the funky exhaust inlet. The way the exhaust is currently clocked puts the turbo's orientation as it is in the first pic. Getting a 90* weld-els, T25 to weld-els flange, and making a flange for the turbo seems like the "easiest" solution so far.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 01-14-2010
(01-14-2010, 10:48 AM)Tymbrymi What year 190D's were NA?All except 1987.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 01-14-2010
I'm not sure how the NA manifold would be better than the stock one. It looks like a normal merged collector turbo manifold.
The current plan is to get a 304 stainless steel weldable elbow. I can then tig a T-25 adapter to one end and a custom made piece of stainless steel to the other.
Will 1/4" 304 stainless be thick enough to make the flanges?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Tymbrymi - 01-15-2010
(01-14-2010, 07:18 PM)joshwho44 Will 1/4" 304 stainless be thick enough to make the flanges?
3/8" is the smallest I've seen for headers... For the custom flange that needs to be made on the turbo side, I would probably go 1/2". That isn't cheap though.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - tomnik - 01-16-2010
Cut away the elbow on your turbo and weld on the new flange directly.
Welding sticks for cast iron and a good grinder and some hours.
Tom
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 01-16-2010
(01-16-2010, 01:57 AM)tomnik Cut away the elbow on your turbo and weld on the new flange directly.
Welding sticks for cast iron and a good grinder and some hours.
Tom
Is the turbine housing cast iron? I was under the impression that it was cast Stainless Steel. It shows significantly less surface rust than the center housing.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - tomnik - 01-16-2010
Maybe something in the middle.
I welded 5 turbos without any problems and without special treatment.
Just use the sticks for cast (ni-type) to avoid cracks.
Tom
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Tymbrymi - 01-17-2010
(01-16-2010, 02:01 PM)tomnik Maybe something in the middle. I welded 5 turbos without any problems and without special treatment. Just use the sticks for cast (ni-type) to avoid cracks.
Did you pre-heat the housing or anything? Seems like pretty risky business to me!
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Rudolf_Diesel - 01-17-2010
Welding cast is not a big deal, in a turbo housing there is no shock load so tensile strength is not a factor. I have welded cracked housings in the past with no problems. If there is a crack I drill holes on either end of the crack to halt its progression and usually prefer to braze as the filler material is usually stronger than the base material. Typically I will use a TIG welder and silicone-bronze rod.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - tomnik - 01-17-2010
(01-17-2010, 09:32 AM)Tymbrymi(01-16-2010, 02:01 PM)tomnik Maybe something in the middle. I welded 5 turbos without any problems and without special treatment. Just use the sticks for cast (ni-type) to avoid cracks.
Did you pre-heat the housing or anything? Seems like pretty risky business to me!
the experts say you have to weld it cold, means you try to avoid big heat into the material and cool down with compressed air after each single step, but I did just nothing like that, no issues but I used the cast rods.
Tom
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 01-17-2010
Everything I've seen and read says to heat cast iron as hot as you can in an oven, weld it and let it cool naturally.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 01-18-2010
I think I'm just going to build a 90 degree adapter with a weld ell. Cutting and welding a new flange onto the turbine housing wouldn't simplify things. I would still have to reclock the turbine housing and the vane assembly.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 01-31-2010
Well I finally got some time to work on the car this past weekend...
Here is the engine bay right before I began the process of removing the turbocharger.
and after...
Here's the damage to the compressor fins. I'm still not really sure what caused this.
I began fabricating the adapter for the turbine inlet. Here is the T-25 flange and the weldable elbow.
I'm hoping to finish the adapter this week in between all my exams.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Tymbrymi - 02-01-2010
Nice progress! Hope the mounting system fabrication goes well...
(01-31-2010, 07:30 PM)joshwho44 Here's the damage to the compressor fins. I'm still not really sure what caused this.
WTF? It sure looks like something got in there.... but what?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 02-01-2010
Check the air tube for a crack and the MAF for missing parts/screws.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 02-07-2010
Got some more work done this weekend on the exhaust flange adapter. Here's a shot of my friend Stephen TIG welding it together and a couple views of the final product.
After the adapter was finished I was able to test fit the turbo on the car. I'm not entirely sure that I will have to fabricate a new pedestal mount, the turbo seems pretty solid just hanging from the adapter.
Does anyone know what type of fitting goes in the block for the turbo oil supply? A 3/8" npt fitting is close but obviously not right. The fitting on the hard line looks to be M16 x 1.5 but I'm not sure.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 03-03-2010
Work on the turbo swap has been slow. Between school work and my involvement on MSU's EcoCar team, I have been rather pressed for time. Here are some recent pictures of my progress.
The new pedestal mount/oil drain is almost done. The turbine inlet adapter also lines up with the old turbo support. The oil supply line has been run and the air filter is installed.
Tonight a friend and I finished welding the intake and exhaust piping and it should be ready to go on the car tomorrow.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - George3soccer - 03-03-2010
Very nice install please let us know how everythings works out. And videos.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Jtn190D - 03-03-2010
Could you explane more how you will control it?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 03-03-2010
(03-03-2010, 08:13 PM)Jtn190D Could you explane more how you will control it?
Initially, I plan on setting up mechanical control... like this: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/gt2056v-jeep-liberty-diesel-turbo-on-a-617-t-146.html
I already have the stock vacuum wastegate actuator, the 15psi actuator that I replaced it with, and a random actuator from a volvo 740, and a few "Grainger Valves".
My long term goal is to achieve vane control with the electronic actuator that came with the turbo. I will be using a MSP-EZ430 micro controller from TI:
John (Tymbrymi) can elaborate more on this, but I believe the car has all the sensors necessary to control the turbo electronically.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 03-05-2010
almost there...
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 03-06-2010
What air filter is that?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 03-06-2010
It runs! I have the turbo completely hooked up. I tip tied the vane control lever in the minimum boost position and drove it around. No boost until about 3k rpm, when it makes 2-3 psi. Around 4500 rpm (when it shifts gears) the turbo is making 5-6 psi. I think this turbo is the perfect size for this engine.
pictures...
Forced: the air filter is a fram 9345 I think.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Tymbrymi - 03-07-2010
(03-06-2010, 08:13 PM)joshwho44 It runs! I have the turbo completely hooked up.
Awesome! I can't wait to get back into town and see it run. I'll make sure to bring my camera so we can get some vids up on YouTube.
Now all you need to do is intercooler it!!
(03-06-2010, 08:13 PM)joshwho44 Forced: the air filter is a Fram 9345 I think.
It looks like a good fit in the pictures, and in person it almost looks like it is an OE filter. I'll be using it whenever I get around to doing my projects.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 03-07-2010
That part number didn't match anything.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 03-08-2010
(03-07-2010, 04:19 PM)ForcedInduction That part number didn't match anything.
Sorry, it's a CA9345. The filter is used on The Chevy Trailblazer and GMC Envoy.
Equivalent part numbers:
Wix: 42729
ACDelco: A2014C
Fram also has a heavy duty filter TGA9345 and a washable filter WA9345.
It flows enough air for GM's 4.2L inline six and 5.3L v8 so I don't see any problems using it on our engines.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - ForcedInduction - 03-08-2010
Ah, I see.
I use the CA8037, from the 96-02 GMC/Chevy HD 1500-3500. I bet you could make it fit, its not that much bigger.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 03-12-2010
And we have boost!
I'm currently controlling vane position with the vacuum actuator from my stock turbo. It takes vacuum off of the line that goes to the tranny from the IP. At idle the turbo makes no boost, but at WOT that is a completely different story...
I'm installing a pressure actuator later today. Without it I have to control max boost with the skinny pedal. It will make 10psi when revved without any load and 25psi under load. Turbo response is instant at any rpm. The car feels fast, but I also haven't driven it in two months!
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Jtn190D - 04-01-2010
Hows everything working out?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 04-07-2010
Well it has been a while since my last post, and I have made some progress with the VNT turbo. Here is the picasa album for the swap. I will be uploading pictures directly to there from now on as it's much easier.
http://picasaweb.google.com/joshwho44/GT2056V#
I have mechanical control of the turbo using the vacuum actuator from the stock T-25 and a pressure actuator from a Volvo 740.It works fairly well for now, however I am chasing down other problems at the moment.
Currently the car will not rev past 4100 rpm in gear. On the low end it's great, but the car just runs out of steam. I had this issue before the swap but attributed it to the damaged turbo. Now I have to start looking elsewhere for the problem. Also, the transmission refuses to down shift from 3-2 under full load.
It's always something with this car...
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Deni - 04-07-2010
Check if your alda is still getting any boost.
Connect the boost line going to alda directly as if you're supplying more than 17 psi-ish the stock overboost protection valve will engage and cut boost to alda.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 04-07-2010
I don't think this engine has the overboost protection valve as it has EDS. I checked the service manual and the only other thing sharing the line with the ALDA is the boost sensor for the EDS. I still plan on removing the ALDA and checking it for proper operation.
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - Serial Crusher - 04-07-2010
I had a similar problem with a disconnected ALDA line after cleaning the banjo. I would have to completely let off the throttle to get it to shift into 4th. Reconnected the line and it shifts nice and smooth again.
Are you worried about sending blow-by into the intake without separating the oil? I'm running that on my intake right now, but I'm looking for an option to reclaim it.
ETA: I didn't see the top photo, I just looked at the picasa album. What breather is that in this photo?
RE: 602 turbo upgrade (GT2056V) - joshwho44 - 04-07-2010
(04-07-2010, 04:54 PM)Serial Crusher I had a similar problem with a disconnected ALDA line after cleaning the banjo. I would have to completely let off the throttle to get it to shift into 4th. Reconnected the line and it shifts nice and smooth again.
Are you worried about sending blow-by into the intake without separating the oil? I'm running that on my intake right now, but I'm looking for an option to reclaim it.
ETA: I didn't see the top photo, I just looked at the picasa album. What breather is that in this photo?
I need to check out the ALDA lines for leaks. You can see from the picture that I tee-d into it for the boost actuator. I think I'll just remove it first and see how the car behaves.
Haha yea...the breather filter was a last minute solution for the blow by. That filter was black and oozing oil after my 1000 mile road trip. You can see in some of the pictures that I now have a hydraulic hose running into the intake. I also doubled up the clamps to keep oil from seeping out under pressure.
The current plan is to weld up a nice aluminum oil seperator from an old fire extinguisher. I think I can just tee into the turbo oil drain before it returns to the block.