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+--- Thread: Manual 6 speed (/showthread.php?tid=1257)
Manual 6 speed - mbenzo300td - 04-04-2010
Anyone have any documentation of the 00-02 c230 6 speed going into a w124 om603. Im interested in trying this however i cant seem to figure out what model tranny. 716.633? 716.668? 716.622? which is the toughest.
RE: Manual 6 speed - Kozuka - 04-11-2010
They are all rated for ~200ftlb. Anyone guess how much they will take, they arn't really modded much. Dual mass flywheel setup isn't cheap. But I like the idea of a 6 speed.
RE: Manual 6 speed - ForcedInduction - 04-11-2010
(04-11-2010, 12:57 PM)Kozuka They are all rated for ~200ftlb.
Good enough for a stock engine.
RE: Manual 6 speed - mbenzo300td - 04-11-2010
Im willing to try it if i can figure out which model I need. I heard the shift linkage will be a pain.
RE: Manual 6 speed - Kozuka - 04-12-2010
(04-11-2010, 04:45 PM)mbenzo300td Im willing to try it if i can figure out which model I need. I heard the shift linkage will be a pain.
Yeah the linkage needs to be shortend for W201/W124.
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 11-26-2010
I found a 716.668 6spd? locally out of an 02 C230 locally for a really good price! I really want to swap it in to my 300sdl my question dose any one know what the length of the transmission + linkage is I'm curious if I would also have to shorten or lengthen it for a w126 300sdl not a big deal but i want to get an idea so I can take some measurement when I go look at it would the flywheel from that car work for my application?
RE: Manual 6 speed - winmutt - 11-29-2010
If not here I am sure benzworld would be a good place to ask about length specifics.
RE: Manual 6 speed - George3soccer - 11-30-2010
I own a w203 6 speed. So if any of you guys need length specifications throw me some questions.
Personally i woild not opt for the 6 speed option. To my kniwledge it seems like it woukd be a weak tranny. I could always be wrong. The best option for price try to find a w201 190 16v getreg tranny. Can hold up to 400nm proven and in some cases higher but the seals start giving up. And for the price i could bet you can pick them up for the same price if not cheaper then the 6speed.
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 11-30-2010
I was curious how long the 6spd trans and and shifter are all together? I want to use this a 6spd in my 300sdl because the shifter linkage looks to be a better design than the 5 spds! My car is a stock 300sdl om603 so power is not a problem!
I'm more concerned about how smooth it shifts!
RE: Manual 6 speed - George3soccer - 12-01-2010
Its a very nice shifting tranny. 5-6 gear are very close to each other. 2-3 gears have to be the most enjoyment with the m111 super motor. Gobbles of torque for a baby motor in those gears.
I prefer the 5 speed linkeage, easily adept poly bushings to the shifter yoke, and the actual linkeage arms. Can be easily cut and shortened the linkeage arms and Shift levers to recieve a short throw.
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-01-2010
cool thanks for the heads up!
RE: Manual 6 speed - Brunhilde - 12-01-2010
Was there such a thing as a diesel dual-mass set up? Or would this be custom only?
RE: Manual 6 speed - George3soccer - 12-01-2010
not that i have heard of!!
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-01-2010
What clutch and fly wheel are you using?
Never mind I forgot your car is the gas so it is most likely the original clutch set up
I was curious if the c230 clutch and fly wheel would bot up to an om603?
RE: Manual 6 speed - George3soccer - 12-02-2010
Yes the 6 speed, I have mounted to the M111 gas motor. Which is stock.
My 603, I have a 84 5 speed w201 8vlv tranny mounted and worked completely fine with the w201 8vlv flywheel and clutch. We will see how the clutch will hold up to the added TQ, and once I start turning the pump up.
Check out this post over in 190rev.net
He mounted a 6 speed c klass euro tranny to a m104. Same bolt patter to the om603. He explains about flywheel, and clutch problems/decisions/options.
http://190rev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35638
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-02-2010
I was thinking of modding the stock m111 flywheel and clutch to work behind the om603?
RE: Manual 6 speed - DeliveryValve - 12-02-2010
Soooo.. What are the ratios on this tranny?
.
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-02-2010
Any one know if this trans will still bolt up to the om603 the bell housing looks it different! it a 6spd from an 06-07 c230
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260289112142
RE: Manual 6 speed - Kozuka - 12-03-2010
(12-02-2010, 11:33 PM)willbhere4u Any one know if this trans will still bolt up to the om603 the bell housing looks it different! it a 6spd from an 06-07 c230
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260289112142
I believe it's only the 01-03 transmissions that will bolt up to the m10X/m111/om60X it has to be the one that used the four cylinder supercharged in the small w203 body.
( yeah back from the dead )
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-03-2010
Thanks for the info that's what I was thinking! Just thought I would ask it was a hell of a deal including free shipping and all
RE: Manual 6 speed - George3soccer - 12-05-2010
Up that tranny was mated to the m112 motor, which was a v6, so that one is a no go.
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-05-2010
I trying to sell my van! But when I do I'm in the market for the 01-03 6speed when I find one that come's with the shift linkage and hopefully the shift knob and boot!
I'm curious if the 01-03 c230 flywheel/clutch will bolts up to the om603 or if it can be made to fit it!
My only concern is that I have read that transmission dose not have a speed sensor
So I will have to make some thing that reads off the drive shaft.
But that should be no issue since I will probably have to have that that made any ways
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-16-2010
I think I found trans locally 203 Type M.T. C230 Cpe trans # 716.668
There are two different part numbers for the 02 c230 manual! I think the difference is gear ratios
203 Type, M.T., C230 (Cpe), type 716.633 or 663
203 Type, M.T., C230 (Cpe), type 716.668
dose any one know for sure what the difference is?
this will be going in my 300sdl if all looks good
They will sell me the Transmission, Shifter, Shift knob and boot, Drive shaft for $900
RE: Manual 6 speed - Brunhilde - 12-16-2010
So the plan is a 300sdl (w126, I'm guessing?) with an om603 turbo mated to a 6-speed from a c230? That is a very interesting plan. I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out, especially your solutions for flywheel, shifter positioning, and speedo reading. I see those as your biggest challenges from off the top of my head. Please do keep us posted!
B
(12-16-2010, 02:16 PM)willbhere4u I think I found trans locally 203 Type M.T. C230 Cpe trans # 716.668
There are two different part numbers for the 02 c230 manual! I think the difference is gear ratios
203 Type, M.T., C230 (Cpe), type 716.633 or 663
203 Type, M.T., C230 (Cpe), type 716.668
dose any one know for sure what the difference is?
this will be going in my 300sdl if all looks good
They will sell me the Transmission, Shifter, Shift knob and boot, Drive shaft for $900
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-16-2010
interesting article on the Benz 6spd
http://500sec.com/six-speed-manual-transmission/
RE: Manual 6 speed - Biohazard - 12-16-2010
(12-16-2010, 02:16 PM)willbhere4u I think I found trans locally 203 Type M.T. C230 Cpe trans # 716.668
There are two different part numbers for the 02 c230 manual! I think the difference is gear ratios
203 Type, M.T., C230 (Cpe), type 716.633 or 663
203 Type, M.T., C230 (Cpe), type 716.668
dose any one know for sure what the difference is?
this will be going in my 300sdl if all looks good
They will sell me the Transmission, Shifter, Shift knob and boot, Drive shaft for $900
I looked up the transmission in the Mitchell guide, it shows the 716.663 AND 716.668 for a 2002 C230 Kompressor. I looked but didn't find anywhere that it showed a difference. I did find the gear ratio's though on a different website:
1) 4.46:1 2)2.61 3)1.72 4)1.25 5)1.00 6).84 Rev)4.06
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-17-2010
Cool tanks for posting that!
I am about to buy a used fly wheel from a c230 with a used but good clutch!
Holy crap the duel mass clutch kit is at least $800 more than I will be paying for the transmission!
I may just replace the disc and clean up the used pressure plate and use it!
RE: Manual 6 speed - muuris - 12-17-2010
I've had 716.640 on my OM606 for a couple of months now. Rated for 370Nm, the engine makes about twice that and car weighs 1800kg. No problems at all and I haven't just driven it to the church..
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-17-2010
pics???
I'm not worried about power one bit! Evan if it makes 400hp 550ft lbs and weighs 4500# some day!
I had a BMW 745i turbo that made over 500hp and has a Getrag 265 5spd rated for 250hp stand up just fine for years!
RE: Manual 6 speed - muuris - 12-18-2010
Don't know if these are informative but all I have.
The gearbox is from m.y. 2000 220cdi (which has also had 716.62x and 716.63x, those rated for 270Nm). All these 4-5 cyl cdi boxes bolt straight on to older MB engines (OM60x, gassers). The V6 has completely different clutch/turbine housing.
716.6 and 722.3. The manual is shorter --> cardan had to be lengthened 40mm (taking in account the manual has thicker guibo).
Modified gear-change mechanism to fit properly into my car. These were from a 4 cyl cdi. The welder said the "carrier" was nasty kind of aluminum, took him many hours to do properly.
Custom flywheel to replace the dual mass and to fit the clutch (BMW M5 Sachs Race Engineering pressure plate and 220cdi disc, 240mm). The flywheel was less than a half of the price of a new dual mass.
Bolted to OM601 to test the clutch disengages and how is the pedal feel. As it has the new style slave cylinder, the pedal feel is ok for a daily driver, unlike a normal setup with this pressure plate.
The gearbox does make some rattling noise with warm oil below 1200rpms, practically only when in neutral (clutch not depressed) and warm engine. The problem is not nearly as bad as with those who use old W124/W201 gearboxes and single mass fw
If MB only had made powerful diesel sixes with manual, there would be a good bolt-on dual mass setup.
RE: Manual 6 speed - Brunhilde - 12-18-2010
(12-18-2010, 03:04 AM)muuris Don't know if these are informative but all I have.
The gearbox is from m.y. 2000 220cdi (which has also had 716.62x and 716.63x, those rated for 270Nm). All these 4-5 cyl cdi boxes bolt straight on to older MB engines (OM60x, gassers). The V6 has completely different clutch/turbine housing.
716.6 and 722.3. The manual is shorter --> cardan had to be lengthened 40mm (taking in account the manual has thicker guibo).
Modified gear-change mechanism to fit properly into my car. These were from a 4 cyl cdi. The welder said the "carrier" was nasty kind of aluminum, took him many hours to do properly.
Custom flywheel to replace the dual mass and to fit the clutch (BMW M5 Sachs Race Engineering pressure plate and 220cdi disc, 240mm). The flywheel was less than a half of the price of a new dual mass.
Bolted to OM601 to test the clutch disengages and how is the pedal feel. As it has the new style slave cylinder, the pedal feel is ok for a daily driver, unlike a normal setup with this pressure plate.
The gearbox does make some rattling noise with warm oil below 1200rpms, practically only when in neutral (clutch not depressed) and warm engine. The problem is not nearly as bad as with those who use old W124/W201 gearboxes and single mass fw
If MB only had made powerful diesel sixes with manual, there would be a good bolt-on dual mass setup.
um...that post pretty much ROCKED!
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-18-2010
Thanks very much muuris! that was very informative!
I found some pics of the internals
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-19-2010
Good news I have sold the 67 van so project 6 spd 300sdl is a go!
1. 6 speed manual transmission trans from an 02 C230
2. stock flywheel and clutch also from 02 C230 for now! It should be ok with stock power for now!
3. I'm getting the stock C230 drive shaft for customization! maybe a hybrid setup if it's even close in length? If not bolder driveline can probably help make something!
4. peddle set out of one of my parts w123 I have read it will work with minor modifications? I don't know what I will have to do
RE: Manual 6 speed - muuris - 12-19-2010
Forgot to mention.. the 6-speed has not only thicker, but also bigger guibo (hole spacing 110mm vs W124 100mm from my bum memory).
RE: Manual 6 speed - Brunhilde - 12-20-2010
(12-19-2010, 07:23 PM)muuris Forgot to mention.. the 6-speed has not only thicker, but also bigger guibo (hole spacing 110mm vs W124 100mm from my bum memory).
So what's the solution there? Swap the tail flange of the transmission?
RE: Manual 6 speed - muuris - 12-20-2010
(12-20-2010, 02:48 AM)Brunhilde So what's the solution there? Swap the tail flange of the transmission?
Of course not. You'll have to modify the drive shaft anyways, so buy a front piece of 6-speed CDI drive shaft and use it. Like this.
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 12-24-2010
I now have a 02 c230 kompressor coupe 6spd trans sitting in the garage for my swap in to my 300SDL Sweet! I'll take some pics/measurements when I get a chance!
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 01-20-2011
Sorry no new updates I bought a clutch and flywheel on the fleabay and they never showed up arg! so I'm still looking for that
But I got the c230 transmission, cross member, shift linkage, drive shaft and shifter assembly
ready for the swap some time this summer when the temps are up a bit!
RE: Manual 6 speed - Gearbound - 01-16-2014
230 6 cylinder right? What year range? im reseaching for my next project and know very little about MB cars besides w123 and w210
RE: Manual 6 speed - willbhere4u - 01-17-2014
c230 is 4 cylinder inline supercharged the SLK 230 is the same 01-03 I think. It has to be from an inline engine the v6 have a different bell housing.
unfortunately with buying a house this project has been on hold. But I did pick up an OM606.962 that I'm going to through in to the mix. also I found a factory w126 manual pedal set. and got a flywheel and clutch kit for a sprinter 2.2CDI with solid mass flywheel that should bolt right in so hopefully it will be a 1987 300sdl w126 with om606 and a manual 6spd
RE: Manual 6 speed - Gearbound - 01-17-2014
Thumbs up! I hear you on the house buying. Im in the market myself, while researching how to build a +400hp om606 to keep my sanity. Its so agravating to find the right house.
(01-17-2014, 10:29 AM)willbhere4u c230 is 4 cylinder inline supercharged the SLK 230 is the same 01-03 I think. It has to be from an inline engine the v6 have a different bell housing.
unfortunately with buying a house this project has been on hold. But I did pick up an OM606.962 that I'm going to through in to the mix. also I found a factory w126 manual pedal set. and got a flywheel and clutch kit for a sprinter 2.2CDI with solid mass flywheel that should bolt right in so hopefully it will be a 1987 300sdl w126 with om606 and a manual 6spd
RE: Manual 6 speed - HaavardPYA - 01-18-2014
Just use M104 flywheel and uprated clutch/pp for that engine
RE: Manual 6 speed - Gearbound - 01-18-2014
Did any of the e36 bmw get a one of these transmissions?
RE: Manual 6 speed - Austincarnut - 01-18-2014
I own one also and love the damn thing. I bought it off of a customer after the vacuum pump locked and threw the cams through the valve cover. I freshened it up and here we are at 252k miles! the tranny has issues with going into gear but the repair is hardly worth the r/r time. This engine and trans has a bad rap but I think once all the usual crap is handled. Oh, and I do treat it like absolute shit and it takes it... as far as trans durability, etc
(11-30-2010, 10:43 AM)George3soccer I own a w203 6 speed. So if any of you guys need length specifications throw me some questions.
Personally i woild not opt for the 6 speed option. To my kniwledge it seems like it woukd be a weak tranny. I could always be wrong. The best option for price try to find a w201 190 16v getreg tranny. Can hold up to 400nm proven and in some cases higher but the seals start giving up. And for the price i could bet you can pick them up for the same price if not cheaper then the 6speed.
RE: Manual 6 speed - MrHope - 01-10-2015
anyone know if the total rpm gets lower on the 6 speed , or is it the same as a 5 speed but has one more gear?
RE: Manual 6 speed - MFSuper90 - 02-24-2015
Any updates on this? Very curious to see how the c230 trans works for you.
RE: Manual 6 speed - Petar - 02-24-2015
(01-10-2015, 01:09 PM)MrHope anyone know if the total rpm gets lower on the 6 speed , or is it the same as a 5 speed but has one more gear?
No, fifth gear is direct on these six speeds and sixth is overdrive 0.83 ratio i think