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+--- Thread: Intercooling OM602 (/showthread.php?tid=1286)
Intercooling OM602 - casioqv - 04-16-2010
I'm looking for a way to intercool my 1987 190D Turbo without hacking the car all up. Does anyone have any photos, examples, or ideas?
I thought it might be possible to mount a small SAAB intercooler in front of the passenger side front wheel, mirroring the way the oil cooler is installed on the drivers side. But this intercooler is very small- and I'm not sure if it would offer much advantage.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Kozuka - 04-16-2010
I personally think the best method for the W201 is squeezed in front of the radiator but I don't know how well it would work. Or hacking up the bumper and mounting in front of the lower radiator support will also work. But as for other spots unless your going A/W I dunno.
The hardest part is going to be welding a new flange on the intake or modding the cross-over pipe so that you can have an intercooler
![[Image: Copy%20of%20DSC00089.JPG]](http://www.daham.org/16vt/projects/merc_w201/Copy%20of%20DSC00089.JPG)
![[Image: IMG_2374.jpg]](http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p109/190emerc/IMG_2374.jpg)
There was a thread around here that had a pic of someone with a OM60X turbo manifold with a block-off plate for the crossover pipe and a 3" pipe flange welded on the other side.
Yeah this guy,
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=665&highlight=OM603+intake+manifold
RE: Intercooling OM602 - casioqv - 04-16-2010
I have an eBay intercooler that would fit behind the bumper like that, but I feel bad about hacking up a 100% original 190D Turbo. Has anyone installed an intercooler without cutting into the chassis?
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Kozuka - 04-16-2010
My suggestion would have to be a A/W Intercooler. Modded Cross-Over Pipe (delete egr) re-clock the turbo and mount the A/W intercooler above the turbo take air from the turbo to the intake. Put the new intercooler radiator infront of the air conditioning condenser.
edit: I had a stupid moment
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Jtn190D - 04-16-2010
I have the same car was trying to figer out how to install a intercooler this morning. If any one has any pics that would be Great!!!
Thanks,
Justin.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - casioqv - 04-16-2010
(04-16-2010, 03:00 PM)Jtn190D I have the same car was trying to figer out how to install a intercooler this morning. If any one has any pics that would be Great!!!
Cool that there's so many of us on this forum! Mercedes only made about ~1200 I think! I wonder how many are left?
I found a website link with somebody playing around with intercooler possibilities on a W124, but none of them look very promising to me:
http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/
They did have an example of how the Saab intercooler might fit. I played around with this at the junkyard last week, and I'm not so sure it would work because it comes so close to the tire, and the plumbing would hang so low to the ground:
![[Image: Saab_IC_side1.jpg]](http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/W124.133_Sabb_IC/Saab_IC_side1.jpg)
I already own an intercooler like this, but he really hacked the body and bumper up to fit it:
![[Image: intercooler_installed2.jpg]](http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/Zeitgeist/intercooler_installed2.jpg)
RE: Intercooling OM602 - yankneck696 - 04-16-2010
Could use the AC to intercool, or use AC to chill water. no alterations to structure or appearance.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 04-16-2010
Running the air tubes is the most difficult part of adding an air intercooler. If minimum body modification is your goal then a water intercooler is the best. Routing 5/8" rubber water hoses is far easier than 2-3" aluminum tubes.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - jeemu - 04-16-2010
Äh. You dont need modified your car body at all if you want there at big cooler.
450x400x76mm cooler is just fine at w201 and w124 body Mercedes.
Its easier install air cooler than water to air, and its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 04-17-2010
(04-16-2010, 05:19 PM)jeemu its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,Only if you're buying new parts and a radiator advertised as being an A/W intercooler radiator.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - tomnik - 04-17-2010
some bad pics of my current installation progress.
The IC is off a Jaguar compressor (one side).
I cut off the intake part and welded a short tube.
I also cut off the top part to direct the water connections to the front.
Tom
RE: Intercooling OM602 - jeemu - 04-17-2010
(04-17-2010, 06:30 AM)ForcedInductionMight be, but there is a lot more work go water/air cooler than just air cooler.(04-16-2010, 05:19 PM)jeemu its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,Only if you're buying new parts and a radiator advertised as being an A/W intercooler radiator.
Water/air you need cooler, vaerpump, wate tank, own radiator for those and of course a lot fabrication.
Air cooler you need cooler and boost pipes.
Everyone can think what is easiest and cheapest to do.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 04-17-2010
(04-17-2010, 04:32 PM)jeemu Air cooler you need cooler and boost pipes.
Not really, fabrication is no different than A/A. You still need the same mounting brackets but air requires large diameter metal pipes route through constricted areas and both require some aluminum cutting and welding and/or a manifold swap.
A radiator can be anything, from an expensive purpose built radiator to a transmission cooler, oil cooler, A/C condenser or even an old heater core.
An electric pump is dead simple, find a 1amp switched power source and pretty much every MB in the junkyards has at least 1 circulation pump that can be bought for around $15.
A water tank isn't necessary, a $5 motorcycle filler neck is all thats needed.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - willbhere4u - 04-17-2010
Tomnic I like your set up! That looks almost like it meant to be there from Mercedes! very clean!
RE: Intercooling OM602 - tomnik - 04-18-2010
"clean" is what it will be when I finished.
But I am with Forced that it is not possible to mount an air/air on this car without cutting on the car or/and to keep the outside appearance stock.
The bumper has no internal space and to route the tubes from below will too close to the floor and will be visible.
The engine compartment of the 124 is kind of closed.
With my set up there is no need to cut something and the tubing is very short.
On top I can get these ICs for 150 EUR as many as I want, so the set up is reproducible.
Tom
(04-17-2010, 11:10 PM)willbhere4u Tomnic I like your set up! That looks almost like it meant to be there from Mercedes! very clean!
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 04-18-2010
(04-18-2010, 02:26 AM)tomnik But I am with Forced that it is not possible to mount an air/air on this car without cutting on the car or/and to keep the outside appearance stock.Thats my point. I had to cut out one of the radiator crossmember braces and part of the headlight backplate to mount the A-A on my 240 and keep the external appearance looking stock, and even then I could just barely squeeze 2.5" tubes through and it required 6 90* angles with 7' of air travel.
Comparatively my A-W uses the factory A/C condenser as a radiator, factory circulation pump as the main pump, required zero body modifications and has only (the equivalent of) 4 90* bends with a 3" tube diameter and only 3' of air travel.
The only downsides are the water system is about 10lbs heavier and $40 more than the air. They both do the same job very well so its down to deciding if you want to cut bodyparts to keep it hidden, have a big intercooler sticking out under the bumper or spend a little more money for a nearly self-contained water system.
Quote:With my set up there is no need to cut something and the tubing is very short.That is a very nice system. What will you be using for the pump and radiator?
On top I can get these ICs for 150 EUR as many as I want, so the set up is reproducible.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - tomnik - 04-18-2010
(04-18-2010, 06:04 AM)ForcedInduction That is a very nice system. What will you be using for the pump and radiator?
2nd stock 124 aux pump.
For radiator I have the choice: additional AC condenser or (what I already prepared) a heat exchanger out of a small French car for compartment heating.
I also have cross moto bike radiators (alu) but they don't fit as well as the French thing.
I might take a closer look on the AC condenser for even better "hidden" solution and more area.
Tom
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Deni - 04-19-2010
I wonder if this intercooler would fit where the cross over pipe is. It would need only one 90* turn.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 04-19-2010
I doubt it would clear the hood without adding a "power bulge".
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Rudolf_Diesel - 04-19-2010
(04-19-2010, 03:47 PM)Deni I wonder if this intercooler would fit where the cross over pipe is. It would need only one 90* turn.
I think I will have to agree with FI on this one.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Kozuka - 04-19-2010
Yeah, even the OM603 cross-over pipe dents the hood on a w201 no room up there.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - 400Eric - 05-08-2010
(04-16-2010, 03:17 PM)casioqv I found a website link with somebody playing around with intercooler possibilities on a W124, but none of them look very promising to me:
http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/
They did have an example of how the Saab intercooler might fit. I played around with this at the junkyard last week, and I'm not so sure it would work because it comes so close to the tire, and the plumbing would hang so low to the ground:
I already own an intercooler like this, but he really hacked the body and bumper up to fit it:
That is GSXR's site. The one I told you to seek out once you come over here.
I'd like to see what your OM602 will do at Fontana with the other mods but without the intercooler and then see what the intercooler does.
Regards, Eric
RE: Intercooling OM602 - gsxr - 05-08-2010
With the stock injection pump, the IC is almost irrelevant... just add an EGT gauge and take your foot off the pedal when it gets to the wrong side of the dial. Now if you're going to put in 6mm elements (or larger), then yes, an IC would definitely be a good idea... along with a larger turbo! Have you turned up the pump already? Remember that there's no power gain just by adding the IC...
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 05-08-2010
(05-08-2010, 07:31 AM)400Eric and then see what the intercooler does.
An intercooler doesn't do anything but let you hold the loud pedal longer without melting the pistons.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - jeemu - 05-08-2010
This is good topic for show at someone little bodywork is easy and someone it inpossible. If you really want good water/air cooler. You need Cooler, waterpump, radiator, water tank and of course some wiring, boost pipes and water lines. These if you want at that works like it should.
And if we talk about putting cooler in w201 orw124 you dont need to cut anything to put in there 400x450 or 300x600 air cooler and 2,5" boost pipes
and that all you need.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Jtn190D - 05-08-2010
Jeemu are you saying i can put a intercooler in with out cutting any bodywork? And if any one knows can i put a intercooler in front of the AC unit and still use it? Would i have to move those electric fans to in front on the intercooler?
Thanks.
Justin.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - tomnik - 05-09-2010
at least on my 124 603 turbo there is only about 3cm space between A/C condenser and bumper support. Even the fan is without protection grille on the lower part to fit behind the bumper support.
The only thing I could imagine is to re-locate all the coolers towards the engine.
Next, I don't see a possibility to route boost hoses/tubes unless you go below all the stuff but this in conflict with the underneath engine cover and too low at all.
Tom
RE: Intercooling OM602 - 400Eric - 05-09-2010
(05-08-2010, 09:35 AM)gsxr With the stock injection pump, the IC is almost irrelevant... just add an EGT gauge and take your foot off the pedal when it gets to the wrong side of the dial. Now if you're going to put in 6mm elements (or larger), then yes, an IC would definitely be a good idea... along with a larger turbo! Have you turned up the pump already? Remember that there's no power gain just by adding the IC...
That's kinda what I was thinking. That's why I suggested that Tyler see what it runs after the mods alone but before the intercooler. Then, later, if he still does the intercooler thing, see what it runs after that is installed. I'm hoping that he will attain his goals without the I.C. and find it unnecessary. Tyler really doesn't want to cut the car up for an I.C. anyway. I've been telling him to just go ahead and do the other stuff and see what that gets him.
Regards, Eric
RE: Intercooling OM602 - gsxr - 05-10-2010
Well, like I said, turning up the pump will make the power. The IC won't make any power, with or without the pump turned up. The IC will keep EGT's down a bit, that's all. I've been running with my pump maxed out for years with no IC, I just know to watch the EGT's if I'm climbing a long grade or something.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - 400Eric - 05-10-2010
Dave, what's the quickest 1/4 mile E/T you've ever gotten out of your OM603?
RE: Intercooling OM602 - gsxr - 05-11-2010
(05-10-2010, 11:08 PM)400Eric Dave, what's the quickest 1/4 mile E/T you've ever gotten out of your OM603?
16.86 @ 82.41mph with the pump maxed out and relatively heavy 17" wheels. The fuel tank was at reserve. This was at 2700' elevation so the launch was slower than it would be at sea level. At sea level with lighter wheels it would likely run closer to 16.5 or so.
After I get the hybrid pump with 6mm elements installed, I'll test it at the dragstrip again, but with that setup I expect it to be mid/high 15's at upper 80's, again at 2700'.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - 400Eric - 05-12-2010
Please keep us posted.
Regards, Eric
RE: Intercooling OM602 - jeemu - 05-14-2010
(05-10-2010, 06:18 PM)gsxr Well, like I said, turning up the pump will make the power. The IC won't make any power, with or without the pump turned up. The IC will keep EGT's down a bit, that's all. I've been running with my pump maxed out for years with no IC, I just know to watch the EGT's if I'm climbing a long grade or something.ic make sure at your intake air dont rice high. That is wise to do if yoy turn pump up.
Ant those water/air coolers not good if you dont put an own water circulation.
Or if there some ho has measured intake temperature whitout?
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Deni - 05-15-2010
Maybe you could also use the large thin intercooler from a turbodiesel Volvo 740 intercooler.
Remove the aux fans.
Make some new brackets for the water radiator and a/c condenser.
Move the water radiator and a/c condenser as far back as the clutch fan will allow (or delete clutch fan and install a big and small eFans).
Place the Volvo intercooler in front of the A/C condenser.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 05-15-2010
Volvo intercoolers are known to be restrictive junk. Poor cooling for their overly large size and weak tanks.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - 400Eric - 05-15-2010
(05-15-2010, 03:03 AM)Deni Maybe you could also use the large thin intercooler from a turbodiesel Volvo 740 intercooler.
Remove the aux fans.
Make some new brackets for the water radiator and a/c condenser.
Move the water radiator and a/c condenser as far back as the clutch fan will allow (or delete clutch fan and install a big and small eFans).
Place the Volvo intercooler in front of the A/C condenser.
Not a bad idea but we never got the intercooled version of the D24T powered 740 Volvo on this side of the pond.
The O.P., Tyler, does own a turbo gas 740 though and I'm sure it was one of the first intercoolers he measured. Are those two intercoolers similar?
Regards, Eric
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Deni - 05-16-2010
we never got the intercooled version of the D24T powered 740 Volvo on this side of the pond.
[/quote]
I was thinking of something like this. Just search for Volvo intercooler on ebay and there are some intercoolers there.
Quote:Volvo intercoolers are known to be restrictive junk. Poor cooling for their overly large size and weak tanks.
Would it be better as no intercooler at all? Or maybe have a shop build a better quality one but with the same size, large yet thin.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - 400Eric - 05-16-2010
Yes, that is a turbo gas intercooler, the only intercooled Volvo 740s we got here.
BTW, the seller is in error, that isn't from a 90. That's the improved intercooler that came out in the 92 M.Y.
Again, the O.P., Tyler, does own a turbo gas 740 and I'm sure it was one of the first intercoolers he measured to see if it would work in the Benz. If it was a viable option, he would have mentioned it.
Regards, Eric
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 05-16-2010
(05-16-2010, 01:15 AM)Deni Would it be better as no intercooler at all?
For what it is, I'd say yes. Water injection would be a better option.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - gsxr - 05-18-2010
Any intercooler on a 201 is going to require cutting *something*, so if it doesn't want to cut the car, forget it.
Water injection doesn't do squat. I saw a power gain when injecting huge amounts of methanol but that was due to the engine burning the methanol as fuel. I removed the system from my car - waste of time, IMO. There was zero reduction in EGT's. Seems to work great for the diesel trucks with direct injection, but not so much for the OM60x.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - ForcedInduction - 05-18-2010
(05-18-2010, 08:52 AM)gsxr Water injection doesn't do squat. I saw a power gain when injecting huge amounts of methanol but that was due to the engine burning the methanol as fuel.
It works well on my 240 with just 35% methanol. I get a decent power boost with no increase in EGTs, thermally "free" power. It failed the first round 3 years ago because I installed it at the non-EGR manifold's test port, so #1 got most of the injection quantity. This time I drilled a port in the spare flat spot of the compressor outlet so its closer to the heat source, it has more time to evaporate so it will distribute evenly (less individual droplet mass changing direction). At the very least its good for keeping the cylinders carbon free.
It works well enough at 3gph on my 240 that I'll be doing a 6gph 2-stage system on my 300D. One nozzle on the manifold inlet and one in each cylinder runner. I've already got most of the components and the injector holes tapped, I just need a tank, accumulator, two solenoids and the nozzles.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - Jtn190D - 08-04-2011
I removed m AC system as it didn't work and I don't need it. Any thoughts on a intercooler anyone?
It would be nice to have a thin one about the size of the AC unit.
And I don't want to do Air to Water, just Air to Air
RE: Intercooling OM602 - aaa - 08-04-2011
Do air to water and use the condenser itself as the heat exchanger.
Course it looks like the fins have been able to cram ordinary fat air-air intercoolers in that spot on w123s and w124s. Looks like the condenser, fan, and brace were removed to make way for those. Hmm, a w201 turbo probably has way less space up front.
You'll have a hard time finding thin air-air intercoolers.
RE: Intercooling OM602 - turbo_reboot - 02-04-2012
the new beetle and corrado ICs are compact thick and small. i got one off a g loaded corrado. pm me if interested.