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+--- Thread: EMS for electronic OM606 engines (/showthread.php?tid=1332)
EMS for electronic OM606 engines - DervTuning - 04-30-2010
Some folks already know that I have been working on fitting an OM606 into a w201 chassis. Most of that time dealt with designing a engine management system (EMS) for the 99 606.962 engine (it will work on other years as well), that employs an electronically controlled injection pump. I do have a spare mechanical 603 pump ready to install, but I really wanted to try to get the electronic pump to work. Well the other day...
I got the 606 started! The standalone EMS employs feedback for the rpms, so that you have an idle. After all the hard work it was a great relief when I got it to easily start, and idle on it's own! The idle can be set to whatever you like (within reason), and any load placed upon the engine like A/C, etc, will automatically be compensated for. In addition, the rev limit can be set as well, and a custom fuel curve can be adjusted for full ALDA functionality.
I am very impressed how fast the 606 revs up! Granted, it only has a flexplate right now, but impressive none the less, and the sound! I did not get a chance to make a video, and now I have to deal with a sticking injector that needs a new nozzle. Of course, the lower injector body/holder cracked when opening it up to get to the nozzle, so now I need a whole injector. The reflection on the pintle shows the flat spot
Any ideas on how to get one, or does anyone have a spare?
The EMS will be available, once I get the code where I want it in terms of excellent engine performance.
Later, Tomnik's 7.5mm elements will be swapped into this pump for even more fun
This should require no retuning, since the EMS compensates for rpm, but I might need to alter the fuel delivery curve for the alda!More to follow when I get the new injector, but here a few photos for now from a cell camera. Enjoy!
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - 300SD81 - 04-30-2010
Sounds sweet! Will you be willing to release any source code? Are you designing your own circuits or using something pre-existing?
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - muuris - 05-01-2010
Wow, that's sweet. But since you made this thread, you've got to give us something about the EMS
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - DervTuning - 05-01-2010
Thanks, it was a lot of hard work, and I am very happy with the results. There were times when I thought it was not going to work
but, persistence paid off 
I designed the code and circuit design, and I am still tweaking both for optimal performance. I am not sure if I will release anything yet, but I might. I am just glad it works!
(04-30-2010, 09:45 PM)300SD81 Sounds sweet! Will you be willing to release any source code? Are you designing your own circuits or using something pre-existing?
I hope it is as sweet on the bench as it is in the car
Any additional code work will be completed whilst tuning during driving, and later on the dyno.In addition, I want to add features like a 2 step rev limiter, and launch control as well. Rev matching is possible as well, but I do not mind using the heel-toe technique.
It should also be possible to retrofit the EMS to an E300 w210 car so you have full authority on the injection pump, without limitation. It will need to be seen how the computer reacts to such inputs!
(05-01-2010, 01:05 PM)muuris Wow, that's sweet. But since you made this thread, you've got to give us something about the EMS
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - 300SD81 - 05-01-2010
Was it you that had plans to make an electronically controlled MW as well? I seem to remember someone posting about potentially making an adapter plate to mate the electronic M governor to a MW.
Also, would you mind disclosing what kind of CPU you are using so I can get an idea of what kind of clock speeds/capabilities it'd need? I've wanted to attempt something similar for a while now, but can't justify buying an electronic pump just to play around with...
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - GREASY_BEAST - 05-01-2010
How far have you gone with your system? Does it have ALDA functionality? Does it interface with the trans at all? Cruise control? EGT protection?
Also would love to know what hardware you used and software details. I can understand if you want to keep secrets for the purpose selling things though. I only ask because I have been mulling over an MW EMS for a short while.
It might also be good for the EMS to keep track of oil pressure. That way it can limit torque intelligently, as well as have an auto-shutdown if something goes bad.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - DervTuning - 05-04-2010
It was not me, I think it was Greasy_Beast. It is a neat project, however, and it should be totally possible to do. The adapter plate would not be all that difficult to make, and there are a variety of Mercedes (application) electronic pumps you could scavenge the governor from (om605, etc).
In addition, this EMS should also be able to control the pump for an om605 as well.
I think I will keep that information for now, and if I do end up making the EMS available for sale, it will be very reasonable. The main goal for the project was simply to be able to use the engine
as is, not to make a lot of $.(05-01-2010, 07:04 PM)300SD81 Was it you that had plans to make an electronically controlled MW as well? I seem to remember someone posting about potentially making an adapter plate to mate the electronic M governor to a MW.
Also, would you mind disclosing what kind of CPU you are using so I can get an idea of what kind of clock speeds/capabilities it'd need? I've wanted to attempt something similar for a while now, but can't justify buying an electronic pump just to play around with...
Yes, the EMS does have full alda functionality, and you will be able to tune it whilst driving, making the process for finding the optimal fuel delivery curve fast and easy.
There is no transmission interface, as I will be using the Getrag 5MT from the 16 valve. Cruise control could be fairly simple to enable, with a defeat coming from the brake lamp signal, and/or switch. EGT protection is something I want to add as well, for the gauge I will use is a peak hold type with an alarm output. The EMS can take this as an input, limiting the fuel delivery to a safe level, seamlessly.
That is a good idea about the oil pressure, thanks! It should be able to interface the oil pressure sensor signal to limit the fuel to the idle setting or shut the engine off completely.
Does anyone know the pinout for the factory glow plug relay for the 99 E300TD? I just need to know about the 3 pin terminal on the relay. My guess is power, ground, and temperature or indicator lamp, but I am not sure 100%.
(05-01-2010, 08:09 PM)GREASY_BEAST How far have you gone with your system? Does it have ALDA functionality? Does it interface with the trans at all? Cruise control? EGT protection?
Also would love to know what hardware you used and software details. I can understand if you want to keep secrets for the purpose selling things though. I only ask because I have been mulling over an MW EMS for a short while.
It might also be good for the EMS to keep track of oil pressure. That way it can limit torque intelligently, as well as have an auto-shutdown if something goes bad.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Alastair E - 05-04-2010
(05-04-2010, 10:28 AM)DervTuning It was not me, I think it was Greasy_Beast. It is a neat project, however, and it should be totally possible to do. The adapter plate would not be all that difficult to make, and there are a variety of Mercedes (application) electronic pumps you could scavenge the governor from (om605, etc).
In addition, this EMS should also be able to control the pump for an om605 as well.
I think I will keep that information for now, and if I do end up making the EMS available for sale, it will be very reasonable. The main goal for the project was simply to be able to use the engine
(05-01-2010, 07:04 PM)300SD81 Was it you that had plans to make an electronically controlled MW as well? I seem to remember someone posting about potentially making an adapter plate to mate the electronic M governor to a MW.
Also, would you mind disclosing what kind of CPU you are using so I can get an idea of what kind of clock speeds/capabilities it'd need? I've wanted to attempt something similar for a while now, but can't justify buying an electronic pump just to play around with...
Yes, the EMS does have full alda functionality, and you will be able to tune it whilst driving, making the process for finding the optimal fuel delivery curve fast and easy.
There is no transmission interface, as I will be using the Getrag 5MT from the 16 valve. Cruise control could be fairly simple to enable, with a defeat coming from the brake lamp signal, and/or switch. EGT protection is something I want to add as well, for the gauge I will use is a peak hold type with an alarm output. The EMS can take this as an input, limiting the fuel delivery to a safe level, seamlessly.
That is a good idea about the oil pressure, thanks! It should be able to interface the oil pressure sensor signal to limit the fuel to the idle setting or shut the engine off completely.
Does anyone know the pinout for the factory glow plug relay for the 99 E300TD? I just need to know about the 3 pin terminal on the relay. My guess is power, ground, and temperature or indicator lamp, but I am not sure 100%.
(05-01-2010, 08:09 PM)GREASY_BEAST How far have you gone with your system? Does it have ALDA functionality? Does it interface with the trans at all? Cruise control? EGT protection?
Also would love to know what hardware you used and software details. I can understand if you want to keep secrets for the purpose selling things though. I only ask because I have been mulling over an MW EMS for a short while.
It might also be good for the EMS to keep track of oil pressure. That way it can limit torque intelligently, as well as have an auto-shutdown if something goes bad.
I really applaud your efforts!
Knowing as I do the complexities of the way electronic systems work and what they must compensate for in a Diesel-injection system, its really summit to be proud of to be able to get it to run reasonably--Let alone Well on the bench!
It would be very worthwile doing a 'watch-dog' system summit like an 'official' engine-management...
--A system of micro-switches on the Accelerator position sensor pot arranged such that they change state when the pedal is pressed, so there is actually two signals sent to ECU, basically the microswitch acts as a guard...
Also, a system that monitors revs and accel. position such that if the speed of engine goes out of some pre-set range, when the accel pedal is not pressed the engine will be set to either No fuel position and operate some form of fuel cut off in case of system failure--If you see what I mean...
Bosch do this on their (Diesel) systems as a safety feature, Guess Toyota dont!!
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - GREASY_BEAST - 05-04-2010
(05-04-2010, 10:28 AM)DervTuning There is no transmission interface, as I will be using the Getrag 5MT from the 16 valve.
A transmission interface, that is, some sensor(s) that tell the CPU whether you are downshifting or upshifting, and into which gear, would allow the computer to automatically match the rpms to those required by the gearbox. This would extend clutch life, protect the transmission, and be really fun to drive.
DervTuning That is a good idea about the oil pressure, thanks! It should be able to interface the oil pressure sensor signal to limit the fuel to the idle setting or shut the engine off completely.
The oil pressure thing isn't only to protect the engine if it springs a leak. If there is too much torque at too low rpm, you will damage the engine's "internals". Assuming you have infinite air (which a well-designed compound or VNT system should be able to approximate), you could get a LOT of smokeless torque at really low RPMs. This would be bad, because it will cause metal-to-metal contact on various bearing surfaces and massive side loads on the cylinder walls. If the engine RPM is low, so is the oil pressure. Monitoring the oil pressure will give you an input to construct an oilPressure-boost-egt-modulated dynamic max fueling curve that depends on the fundamental engine operating characteristics, as they are at any given moment. The problem is then to figure out all the forces involved and what is your max torque allowable at a particular RPM
.EDIT: This is all assuming the ideal is maximizing smokeless performance. You could just slap on a huge turbo that doesn't spool until 4500rpm and call it done.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - George3soccer - 05-06-2010
Hey let's not get to electronic happy on the tranny side. Great idea in all, but personal preference would be let's keep it to the driver and let him drive. Forget the rev match, a little heel toe is just fine.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - DervTuning - 05-13-2010
Thanks for all the compliments. I will add more to this response later, as I have too much to do right now
Rev matching is something I thought about, and should be fairly easily be realized.
I do plan to fit a large VGT turbine to the engine, and I do not mind making the power in the upper rpm range as well. It should keep lots of things happy, including me
(05-06-2010, 08:11 AM)George3soccer Hey let's not get to electronic happy on the tranny side. Great idea in all, but personal preference would be let's keep it to the driver and let him drive. Forget the rev match, a little heel toe is just fine.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - HughF_UK - 05-13-2010
Wow! Having just got myself a 606 to swap into my w201 here in the uk, I'm very interested in hearing more about you ems. I work in electronics, we make marine survey equipment and I know how hard reverse engineering something is. I really applaud your efforts.
I was going to blow 1200 euros on a myna pump for my engine, but if your willing to release schematics and firmware, even for a charge, I would be happy to go down the electronic route and stick with the current pump.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Alastair E - 05-17-2010
(05-13-2010, 02:29 PM)HughF_UK Wow! Having just got myself a 606 to swap into my w201 here in the uk, I'm very interested in hearing more about your ems. I work in electronics, we make marine survey equipment and I know how hard reverse engineering something is. I really applaud your efforts.
I was going to blow 1200 euros on a myna pump for my engine, but if your willing to release schematics and firmware, even for a charge, I would be happy to go down the electronic route and stick with the current pump.
For major power increases, above the 175? std. you'll still need to replace the elements --even in your Electronic type pump....
Apparently, the OEM Exhaust-Manifold is a major bottleneck much above 200BHP from what I read, but the Finns do have a nice tubular option for that with a std. T3 or T4 flange, so with That, and a honking great Holset, and you're all set for daft power outputs.......
But-- Dont go to Myna....
Contact Tomnik on this Forum. He can mod up a std. 'M' type from a 603 with 7.5mm elements, This is the way I plan to do it, using a std. 603 type pump rather than the electronic original. I believe he has developed a Test-Plan for the upgrade for the mechanical governor pumps, so that any competant injection-shop could do the mod....Need to check with Tom...
--It is said, that Tomnik's German sourced elements are far higher quality than the ones that Myna use, They were specially made and ground for this application...
--Guess its also possible to fit the M75 7.5 Floyd elements from Tom to the electronic pump originally on your 606 too, but you'll need to check with him first....
--Nice to see another UK member doing daft things with Diesels!
I plan on fitting a 606 to a W123, I may have a line on a 606....
Your plan to shove it in a W201 may be simpler than the W123 though!
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - DervTuning - 05-24-2010
Thanks for the kind words HughF_UK and Alastiar, etc
You could do it either way depending on what you like; electronic or mechanical. If you would like to use the electronic pump, all you need is the pump, and the rpm sensor on the flywheel. If that is damaged, another type of sensor could be fitted so the EMS gets what it needs
Depending on how the development goes, I might end up contacting you about the circuit boards.
A little update, I was able to post a video of the engine running on the test stand. Higher quality videos will follow, once I have a break from the messing about with the M 5 cylinder mechanical pump!
606EMS
There I was testing the idle response, as well as adjusting the idle rpms. If the engine were in the car, I would take it for a test drive!
(05-17-2010, 01:44 PM)Alastair E(05-13-2010, 02:29 PM)HughF_UK Wow! Having just got myself a 606 to swap into my w201 here in the uk, I'm very interested in hearing more about your ems. I work in electronics, we make marine survey equipment and I know how hard reverse engineering something is. I really applaud your efforts.
I was going to blow 1200 euros on a myna pump for my engine, but if your willing to release schematics and firmware, even for a charge, I would be happy to go down the electronic route and stick with the current pump.
For major power increases, above the 175? std. you'll still need to replace the elements --even in your Electronic type pump....
Apparently, the OEM Exhaust-Manifold is a major bottleneck much above 200BHP from what I read, but the Finns do have a nice tubular option for that with a std. T3 or T4 flange, so with That, and a honking great Holset, and you're all set for daft power outputs.......
But-- Dont go to Myna....
Contact Tomnik on this Forum. He can mod up a std. 'M' type from a 603 with 7.5mm elements, This is the way I plan to do it, using a std. 603 type pump rather than the electronic original. I believe he has developed a Test-Plan for the upgrade for the mechanical governor pumps, so that any competant injection-shop could do the mod....Need to check with Tom...
--It is said, that Tomnik's German sourced elements are far higher quality than the ones that Myna use, They were specially made and ground for this application...
--Guess its also possible to fit the M75 7.5 Floyd elements from Tom to the electronic pump originally on your 606 too, but you'll need to check with him first....
--Nice to see another UK member doing daft things with Diesels!
I plan on fitting a 606 to a W123, I may have a line on a 606....
Your plan to shove it in a W201 may be simpler than the W123 though!
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - HughF_UK - 05-26-2010
As you can probably tell, I'm also doing a w201 swap with my 606 so I'm very interested to see how this works out for you.
I'll be glued to this thread
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - GREASY_BEAST - 05-27-2010
(05-24-2010, 11:03 AM)DervTuning If that is damaged, another type of sensor could be fitted so the EMS gets what it needs
I believe sometimes people use the alternator for this.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Kozuka - 05-28-2010
Some kind of reed-relay/hall sensor and magnet on any rotating assembly that's connected to the crank shaft.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - altamonte - 08-10-2010
I'm a newbie here, but I'll chime in that if the schematics or finished EMS are available for reasonable price, I'm in. I'm replacing an OM603 in a S350 (D) with an OM606 - was going the mechanical pump route from my existing engine till I saw this forum.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - 350SDL - 08-10-2010
You can fit the mechanical pump very easy in your SDL, and still use your standard cruise control, i use this setup in mine, and it works fine.
You will have to make a spacer ( about 20mm ) for the oilfilter so it will clear the inlet manifold and use the oilfilter from the 603, then it is a straight bolton
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Alastair E - 08-10-2010
DervTuning....
Out of curiosity, which cylinder did your faulty injector come out of?
I bought a near complete W210 with running engine, that when started from stone-cold has that typical iffy injector diesel-knock for about 15 secs, on 1 pot.
After that its dead smooth and quiet. I had forgotten how nice a 6 pot sounds in comparison to a 5 pot 617!
Removed engine and trans complete today, will separate and bring home tomorrow with any luck...
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - diesel2fast4u - 10-15-2010
Any progress? I want 2!
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - JTY - 10-21-2010
(05-13-2010, 02:29 PM)HughF_UK Wow! Having just got myself a 606 to swap into my w201 here in the uk, I'm very interested in hearing more about you ems. I work in electronics, we make marine survey equipment and I know how hard reverse engineering something is. I really applaud your efforts.
I was going to blow 1200 euros on a myna pump for my engine, but if your willing to release schematics and firmware, even for a charge, I would be happy to go down the electronic route and stick with the current pump.
Just go with mynä and get best of the best IP in the market.
You get latest cutting edge IP technology and with great performance. They have now even 8mm elements and evo cams.
I think it's better to get it done at the pros and get realiable working pump with outstanding performance than with non-pro and get medicore performance
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - willbhere4u - 10-21-2010
Yea and if we all lived in Finland and had millions of dollars that might work! But over here in the U.S derv is the man!
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - knut olav - 12-30-2010
Hello, i am new at this forum. how is the progress with the EMS.?
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - E300TSC - 12-31-2010
I shot this video today of the waveform of the rack control PCM signal.
The wave length is 24.5 ms @ about 13 volts which translates to 40.8 hz.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - erling66 - 01-01-2011
Here is a much easier way to run the electronic IP on the 606. No electronics needed, but the method has a few drawbacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0hgSaenbSo
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - speedwellfane - 11-26-2012
Hi I am looking to put 2 606 engines in my boat can you tell me if you have finished making your EMS for the pump on these engines.
If so will you be able to sell me 2 of these units and at what price.
Thanks Regards Kevin Smith
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Pinchers - 04-18-2013
Any updates on the EMS , I would also take one if youve managed to get the unit finished.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - SurfRodder - 04-19-2013
Not likely,
The OP flaked out a couple of years ago and didnt respond to calls/email/etc from any of the people who sent him stuff. I was finally able to get my IP back months later from the guy who was doing the actual tuning and sent it to another shop to get Tomniks elements installed. As for any of this electronic stuff, it likely disappeared with the OP...
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Druk - 04-20-2013
Shame we couldn't persuade Olejefer to come up with an 962 EMS to match his 722.6 gearbox trickery.
Now....that would be something.
ps..where in Scotland are you Pinchers?
.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Mark_M - 04-21-2013
http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/dmn-edc/ is the only project that I can find like this that seems to be still going although it doesnt seem to be happening with much pace. There are dozens of projects like this on the net but they all seem to end after getting the idle up and running for whatever reason.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - raysorenson - 04-22-2013
(04-21-2013, 06:56 PM)Mark_M http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/dmn-edc/ is the only project that I can find like this that seems to be still going although it doesnt seem to be happening with much pace. There are dozens of projects like this on the net but they all seem to end after getting the idle up and running for whatever reason.
Thanks for the link. I see that he hasn't added beginning of injection timing control. Without electronic timing control, I can't see any advantage one of these pumps would have over a drive by wire system on an mechanical pump. A drive by wire mechanical pump would also reach a much larger market with better support e.g. meken, PPD, ect..
I wonder, were electronic timing control added, how much better would it be compared to the curves that the mechanical pump tuners offer.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - Druk - 04-22-2013
It would probably be of greater benefit to the European contingent who have an almost endless supply of .962 engines available because of the rust issues without having to source the mech pumps which are not in as great a supply here. Once there was an EMS available it could presumably be 'tuned' to whatever parameters the owner required.
And I dont suppose it would be any more difficult for Meken to fit 7.5 elements to an electronic pump than to a mechanical one.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - whipplem104 - 04-23-2013
This is a fairly simple thing to do. I was working on drive by wire with the PCS datalogger using the boost control feature. I could target a position based on throttle position with redundant tps signals. I see no problem running the diesel pump with this. It would be easier since you do not have to worry about return spring pressure etc. Not as twitchy. You could also use the rack position as feed back if you want. The most important thing is to have fail safes. I was also thinking of having it target a pwm with tps value and then have the other pwm output be a failsafe for rack position. Idle speed control would not be attainable though. You would just have to set a targeted pwm a little high.
RE: EMS for electronic OM606 engines - raysorenson - 04-23-2013
While this thread has me thinking of how I can put an OM606 pump and sensors on my 603, I'm still thinking about converting a mechanical pump to DBW.
The throttle bodies in Ford products use DC motors with gear reduction and return spring force, not steppers. There are redundant TP sensors that you can log for both the pedal and the body. The sensors are biased opposite (one 5v closed and 0v WOT, the other sensor is vice versa) so that a possible short between the signal wires can't override failsafe. On inspection, I suspect that this is just an encoder which is a good idea. They can be made tiny and reliable. The reason I'm talking about Ford crap is because it's good to know how the O.E.'s are doing it so you might be able to identify a safety risk when you deviate from their setups. The DC motor with gear reduction and dual return springs is too elaborate and large but probably safest. A stepper seems to be ticket.
One of the failsafe modes could include applying vacuum to the shutoff valve just in case you can't return the stepper to the idle position.