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+--- Thread: Differences between model years? (/showthread.php?tid=1354)
Differences between model years? - capflya - 05-12-2010
I'm looking at a '85 parts car for the engine to replace the knocker in my 300D. My car is an '83 and I think everything should be the same but I want to make sure before I buy the car.
I remember reading somewhere about a tach sensor being different or something like that. Not sure if there are any differences but I figured I could ask. I tried searching but I keep getting "too few characters" and ect when I try to search.
I also assume the transmission will swap over? The parts car is pretty low mileage so I was thinking I would pull the tranny and engine together and swap it with mine. I will keep searching in case I happen to stumble upon my answer. Any help is greatly appreciated. After doing all the "hard" work and finding out my engine was no good I want to ensure I wont have any "complications" with another engine swap. Thanks in advance!
-David
RE: Differences between model years? - Syncro_G - 05-12-2010
If the '85 is a CA model, it will have different manifolds.
They are easy enough to swap out. If the turbo is clean, you can re-clock it to fit your old manifolds.
Vacuum setup is a little different but easy enough to convert to your old setup assuming you keep your old transmission.
If you use donor trans, you'll need to bring over the blue transmission vacuum amplifier
if it's a TD, you can cap off the SLS pump port
you'll have an EGR computer to carefully extricate from the engine wiring.
If you get stuck, you can swing by and look at my engine. Though in a G, I started with the '85, then federalized it and finally removed EGR (for testing, of course)
RE: Differences between model years? - capflya - 05-12-2010
I always "test" my vehicles so I know what you mean
that sounds easy enough. I have read that the tranny (722.4?) in the 85 is "weaker" than the tranny in the earlier year cars? I may fix up this 85 I'm looking at and pull the engine out of my 84 "parts car" that I was going to fix up to put in my 83 so it would be a more straight forward swap. Not sure on the plan yet but it's good to know the 85 would work ok like I thought.
Thanks for the quick reply!
-David
RE: Differences between model years? - DeliveryValve - 05-12-2010
Only the '85 Cali model had the 722.4 trans. If you do indeed have the 722.4 and like to use it, you will have to have the neutral switch wiring harness reworked.
There is a RPM sensor on both the front balancer and flywheel. You can use the front sensor just fine with your '83. For the rear, remove the sensor at the flywheel and make a small plate to cover up the hole. That sensor is a magnet and will collect debris if left there.
Another note is if the '85 is a Cali, it will not have a drain hole for the crankcase vent oil separator.
.
RE: Differences between model years? - Syncro_G - 05-12-2010
(05-12-2010, 06:13 PM)DeliveryValve Only the '85 Cali model had the 722.4 trans. If you do indeed have the 722.4 and like to use it, you will have to have the neutral switch wiring harness reworked.
There is a RPM sensor on both the front balancer and flywheel. You can use the front sensor just fine with your '83. For the rear, remove the sensor at the flywheel and make a small plate to cover up the hole. That sensor is a magnet and will collect debris if left there.
Another note is if the '85 is a Cali, it will not have a drain hole for the crankcase vent oil separator.
The neutral safety wiring shouldnt be a big deal. But yeah, I think the plugs to the trannies differ.
The 722.4 is holding up fine with my beast but I'm getting ready to swap back to a manual gearbox.
DV- what's the extra oil drain port you refer to? Would that be in the cast pan next to the turbo drain? I'm planning to tap a hole there for my separator to drain into
Also, I left the flywheel sensor harness in place along with the rack position cable in hopes a nice turbo controller comes along that would make use of them.
-Christian
RE: Differences between model years? - capflya - 05-13-2010
Ok... first I want to thank you guys for the help! I did buy the car... $700 and it only has 135k on the engine and tranny... not super low but much lower than just about every 300D I have seen for "cheap". It's been sitting for about a month and had a little over 3/4 tank of diesel so there shouldn't be too much condensation in the tank from sitting for a long time. Everything mechanical on the car is good except the oil cooler. There is a pin sized hole that leaks as soon as you start the engine. Even though it had been sitting for a little while it started right up after one glow plug cycle.
I am happy to say it is not a CA car! It's an 85 federal. There is no trap oxidizer so the manifolds and everything are the same as what is in my car now. All I have to do is swap the T3 for my K26 on the new engine and I'll be good to go.
As far as the transmission goes... since it's not an 85 cali it should have the 722.3 if I understood you correct DV? Does this mean it is the "same" as what is already in the '83? If it is and I wont have to rework anything than I will swap the transmission as well. Since it is lower mileage than the one that is in my '83 I will pull the engine and tranny together and swap the whole assembly. If it wont take anything major to swap the tranny I am willing to do that, but if it would take a bunch of reworking to swap it I don't think I want to do that. I'm pretty sure my other transmission is ok so I don't NEED to swap them but if it's an easy switch then I'll go ahead and do it.
I hope to get started on this next week possibly so no rush but I DO appreciate the help! Thanks again guys...
-David
On a side note I may swap the 2.88 rear and the speedo from the '85 into the '83 so the odometer will match the drivetrain's mileage
RE: Differences between model years? - DeliveryValve - 05-13-2010
(05-12-2010, 08:42 PM)Syncro_G .....
DV- what's the extra oil drain port you refer to? Would that be in the cast pan next to the turbo drain? I'm planning to tap a hole there for my separator to drain into
Also, I left the flywheel sensor harness in place along with the rack position cable in hopes a nice turbo controller comes along that would make use of them.
-Christian
Yes it is next to the turbo oil drain. See pic I took of the drain. (Sorry, I need to clean this motor)
.
(05-13-2010, 02:19 AM)capflya ...
As far as the transmission goes... since it's not an 85 cali it should have the 722.3 if I understood you correct DV? Does this mean it is the "same" as what is already in the '83? If it is and I wont have to rework anything than I will swap the transmission as well. Since it is lower mileage than the one that is in my '83 I will pull the engine and tranny together and swap the whole assembly. If it wont take anything major to swap the tranny I am willing to do that, but if it would take a bunch of reworking to swap it I don't think I want to do that. I'm pretty sure my other transmission is ok so I don't NEED to swap them but if it's an easy switch then I'll go ahead and do it.
I hope to get started on this next week possibly so no rush but I DO appreciate the help! Thanks again guys...
-David
On a side note I may swap the 2.88 rear and the speedo from the '85 into the '83 so the odometer will match the drivetrain's mileage
The '85 300D Federal transmission should be a 722.315. It will have a higher stall speed torque converter, 2400 - 2700 rpms for quicker acceleration mated to the 2.88 ratio. The pre 1985 617 turbo used a torque converter with a stall speed around 1450 - 1650 rpms.
The 2.88 is a good all around gear especially for highway cruising. But for acceleration, stick with the '83's 3.07.
.
RE: Differences between model years? - capflya - 05-13-2010
Hmmm.... decisions decisions...
I guess the question I have now then is how would the car be with the higher stall converter and the 3.07 diff? I'm also kind of curious how the car would drive with the 2.88 gears. I like faster acceleration but MPG is also important for this car. Have you driven both? Is there a big difference between the two?
I'm going to have to look into how a torque converter effects speed/acceleration because transmissions aren't really my thing. I'm trying to pull the whole tranny/engine assembly without having to take them apart because I don't really have space to do that. If I transferred the 2.88 from the 85 into my 83 would a little IP tuning make up for the difference in acceleration? That is something I wanted to do and would be willing to play with if the car turned out to be "too slow" for me with the 2.88 gears. Well off to do some more reading... Thanks again for all the help!
-David
RE: Differences between model years? - Syncro_G - 05-13-2010
DV- thanks. Bummer I don't have that but it's not hard to add one.
Capflya- good luck looks like you have all you need.
RE: Differences between model years? - capflya - 05-24-2010
I'm finally getting to tearing stuff apart and I have some questions...
First one... the transmission vacuum stuff is different on this car. It has the blue "flying saucer" and from what I read I will need to swap this in order for the transmission to shift correctly?
The other question is on the side of the IP there's a little box with a wire running out of it and that wire connects to another wire on the firewall. From the diagrams I have seen it's the rack position sensor? Can I just leave this unplugged or do I need to do anything to it? If I understand correctly it's part of the EGR system which will not be in use. Do I need to do anything to it or just unplug it and leave it alone?
I'm gonna be working on the car all week in my spare moments so I'm hoping to have the swap done by the end of this week. Drained the tranny and coolant out of the donar car so that engine/tranny is just about ready to pull. Thanks in advance guys!