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+--- Thread: Holset 35? (/showthread.php?tid=1825)
Holset 35? - thirdstreettito - 10-07-2010
What is needed to install a Holset HY35 or HX35 turbo on a 3.0 I5 TD?
RE: Holset 35? - muuris - 10-07-2010
Assortments of bolts, nuts, pipes, hoses, crossbars etc. All kind of tools, including angle grinder and welding machine. Flange on exhaust manifold is the same, but might need to make an adapter flange in order to get clearances ok. Modify the turbo's oil lines. Rebuild the whole exhaust pipe. Install intercooler and it's pipings.
If you have stock pump and are not planning to change it to one with bigger elements, it's all waste of everything. Won't get all the benefits of the turbo without intercooler and bigger exhaust.
Just my opinion, but if one has to ask about what's involved, most likely the job won't get done.
RE: Holset 35? - thirdstreettito - 10-07-2010
Thanks, is an intercooler necessary? I've seen plenty of diesels(single/twin/triple turbo)without I/C's. What all needs to be done to the pump? I dont know anything about benz pumps.
RE: Holset 35? - muuris - 10-08-2010
I have to ask, are going to put a HX35 because
a) "it's cool" (at least on forums), run it non-intercooled at stock hp levels
b) you're going to make at least 200hp
If you're not going to send the pump to a diesel shop that will increase the fueling to 200-300% compared to stock, you won't need HX35. A much smaller turbo is ok for adjusted stock pump (see the sticky topic). If you want power, you'll need the IC.
RE: Holset 35? - thirdstreettito - 10-08-2010
Cool, lol I dont care much about cool. Im all about spending money to do something, not to be cool. I'll do the pump myself most likely, is there some info on them? I know about the Bosch VE pumps and the Stanadyne DB pumps, nothing else really.
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-08-2010
(10-07-2010, 07:22 AM)thirdstreettito What is needed to install a Holset HY35 or HX35 turbo on a 3.0 I5 TD?
A bigger engine. The 35 series is too big for an OM617, all it will do is surge.
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-08-2010
(10-07-2010, 08:07 PM)thirdstreettito Thanks, is an intercooler necessary? I've seen plenty of diesels(single/twin/triple turbo)without I/C's. What all needs to be done to the pump? I dont know anything about benz pumps.I has see and hear also even triple charged engines, even one what has less power, torgue, but more boost and cylindes than my engine.
What i mean is that all you see, is not made good or right.
RE: Holset 35? - thirdstreettito - 10-08-2010
(10-08-2010, 01:36 PM)jeemu(10-07-2010, 08:07 PM)thirdstreettito Thanks, is an intercooler necessary? I've seen plenty of diesels(single/twin/triple turbo)without I/C's. What all needs to be done to the pump? I dont know anything about benz pumps.I has see and hear also even triple charged engines, even one what has less power, torgue, but more boost and cylindes than my engine.
What i mean is that all you see, is not made good or right.
They are on pulling trucks, all Cummins diesel's. Many have no intercooler. Some have over 100,000 miles on them.
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-09-2010
(10-08-2010, 09:47 PM)thirdstreettitoNo cooler= wery stupid. Pullers use water(10-08-2010, 01:36 PM)jeemu(10-07-2010, 08:07 PM)thirdstreettito Thanks, is an intercooler necessary? I've seen plenty of diesels(single/twin/triple turbo)without I/C's. What all needs to be done to the pump? I dont know anything about benz pumps.I has see and hear also even triple charged engines, even one what has less power, torgue, but more boost and cylindes than my engine.
What i mean is that all you see, is not made good or right.
They are on pulling trucks, all Cummins diesel's. Many have no intercooler. Some have over 100,000 miles on them.
RE: Holset 35? - INC - 10-09-2010
I want to use this turbo on G300TD OM606 with electronic 7.5 mm pump.
my goal is ~ 300ps.
Car is for everyday use.
This turbo will be ok for that?
![[Image: DSC04939.sized.jpg]](http://content21-foto.inbox.lv/albums142839733/incc/Mail-Attachments/DSC04939.sized.jpg)
![[Image: DSC04938.sized.jpg]](http://content6-foto.inbox.lv/albums142839728/incc/Mail-Attachments/DSC04938.sized.jpg)
![[Image: DSC04937.sized.jpg]](http://content6-foto.inbox.lv/albums142839711/incc/Mail-Attachments/DSC04937.sized.jpg)
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-10-2010
That turbo will be good for a 606, but a bit laggy for daily use.
RE: Holset 35? - INC - 10-10-2010
Thats what i`m afraid
7.5 mm pump is on, and run
I try to use vnt 2260 from 235ps BMW 3.0d
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-10-2010
2260 is a little small on the turbine side. I wouldn't go with anything smaller than a BMW 2559V, but a 3063V from a Hino would be very nice.
RE: Holset 35? - muuris - 10-11-2010
(10-08-2010, 07:03 AM)thirdstreettito I'll do the pump myself most likely, is there some info on them?
If you have a pump bench, no problem then. If you don't have that or access to one, forget it. Building a moderately working garage-VE is much easier as it doesn't require justifying injection amounts between cylinders and the springs are much weaker.
(10-08-2010, 07:46 AM)ForcedInduction A bigger engine. The 35 series is too big for an OM617, all it will do is surge.
It didn't surge on BMW 2,4L diesel.
(10-10-2010, 10:46 AM)ForcedInduction 2260 is a little small on the turbine side. I wouldn't go with anything smaller than a BMW 2559V, but a 3063V from a Hino would be very nice.
2559V is older and less flowing than 2260V. Don't let the type designation fool. Those have been put to 4cyl VW engine here, the 2260V from BMW is one of the most desirable ones, whereas used 2559V's can be found cheap.
But for 300hp OM606, it is not enough.
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-11-2010
(10-11-2010, 01:39 PM)muuris It didn't surge on BMW 2,4L diesel.Thats because you revv the piss out of your engines.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-11-2010
revving the piss on a om/diesel motor is this a big problem,
and what does revving the piss consist of on the tach?
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-11-2010
The Finns revv their engines upwards of 6000rpm, 7400rpm being the highest I've seen them do in drifting. Even the old 617 I've seen them revv to 5700rpm.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-11-2010
Any danger to the motors, maybe they have done work to the head to allow for the high rev to keep them at a safely manner.
Seems like the high hp diesel vehicles they have arent blowing up because of high hp, but I only know of a handful only.
RE: Holset 35? - MJF - 10-11-2010
So anyone out from Finland can not rev their engine???
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-11-2010
Well I'll be revving my 603 to what ever you guys tell me to. I'm not sure what are the max revs on 603 with stock internals stock head.
RE: Holset 35? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-12-2010
Please keep revving so we can find out what the breaking point is....I have had my 617 to 5000, Dervtuning said he had his up to 6000 - they are both still together.
I am about pushing the limits and I applaud those that do the same.
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-12-2010
(10-11-2010, 09:59 PM)MJF So anyone out from Finland can not rev their engine???
Yes, because the Finns seem to be the only ones that have the "inside info" and they aren't willing to share specific details.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-12-2010
You guys got it. I was told to rev mine up towards 6500. So I shall be doing that.
Someone please throw down the towel and let us know what is beneficial with high revs. Where is the safety limit on these different om motors. Do 61x motors rev only up to so much because of the certain type of head. And the 60x motors do this differently because of the head design. Please someone enlighten us. I am very curious as to what I can push mine towards. Would help answer what type of turbo would be best for me with a worked IP.
RE: Holset 35? - muuris - 10-12-2010
(10-11-2010, 03:20 PM)ForcedInduction Thats because you revv the piss out of your engines.Usually rev'ved not more than 5000rpm. Max power was at 4100rpm.
The best about 60x is that they rev so happily and make max power high up. So why wouldn't one rev those?
(10-12-2010, 09:05 AM)George3soccer Where is the safety limit on these different om motors. Do 61x motors rev only up to so much because of the certain type of head.61x don't rev so much. 60x do because of chamber, head, cam etc design. Wouldn't rev much over 6000, because you just can't get max power above that.
(10-12-2010, 08:04 AM)ForcedInduction Yes, because the Finns seem to be the only ones that have the "inside info" and they aren't willing to share specific details.Details about what?
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-12-2010
Ok there's mostly everyone's answer, you got a 60x, don't rev above 6k, only because there's no power anything above that. But if you want to experiment please go ahead by all means.
Well possibly a different cam design, and some valve-train to help aid with the higher rev's could make somewhat of a difference, to make the revs higher with still making power. But yet that could be a waste of money since they do rev pretty damn high.
Thank you for the details muuris. Really appreciate that.
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-12-2010
Forced. Why Finns have the info of those? Because they have test.
I know pretty much about om605/6 engine because i have test a lot and bay learning money. You know also if you test those, not just read at internet and try to be all know expert.
I have test at original N/A engine piston pins dont be good over 7400rpm
But i also have test at Tbo engine can rev 6000rpm and it make best power up there if you know what you are doing.
And what come about intake manifold. Dual plenum system is good choise, and yes we have test that also.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-12-2010
And a dual plenum system that is for the 605/6 motors. Would this apply for a 602/3 motors with the 2valve/piston heads?
Great info. love it.
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-12-2010
(10-12-2010, 03:45 PM)jeemu Because they have test.As said before, information they (and you) are not willing to share. No, casually mentioning you've "done it" is not sharing.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-12-2010
Please do share. Hahah
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-13-2010
(10-12-2010, 04:21 PM)George3soccer And a dual plenum system that is for the 605/6 motors. Would this apply for a 602/3 motors with the 2valve/piston heads?Of cource it work, but dont tell everybody
Great info. love it.
Here is measured pretty impressive results on dual plenum system.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-13-2010
Interesting. Do you have a photo of this design. Would it be the similair dual plenum design that would be used for the gasser motors. Very interested in this design. Since I just bought a na603 intake manifold for the ease of intercooling this engine.
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-13-2010
(10-13-2010, 05:06 PM)jeemu Of cource it work, but dont tell everybody
Then don't bother even mentioning it.
RE: Holset 35? - 300D50 - 10-14-2010
Wow, I thought we were above the old "I won't tell you cus it's a secret!" thing...
If it's as simple as turning a screw or changing a manifold, then why not tell people how to do it? Even the more complex things should have at least the theory of operation shared, so people can expand and work off the idea.
Are we no greater or lesser than patent trolls if we all keep an idea to ourselves yet flaunt it's benefits?
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-14-2010
(10-13-2010, 06:49 PM)ForcedInductionYou should loose a little and not take everything so serious?(10-13-2010, 05:06 PM)jeemu Of cource it work, but dont tell everybody
Then don't bother even mentioning it.
(10-14-2010, 03:45 AM)300D50 Are we no greater or lesser than patent trolls if we all keep an idea to ourselves yet flaunt it's benefits?You can read my old topic in here, if it still is here and then tell do i have "secrects" what comes on my engine.
(10-13-2010, 06:36 PM)George3soccer Interesting. Do you have a photo of this design. Would it be the similair dual plenum design that would be used for the gasser motors. Very interested in this design. Since I just bought a na603 intake manifold for the ease of intercooling this engine.Here is photos of it
http://www.amwdynoservice.com/page25.php?view=productListPage&category=14
http://amwdynoservice.com/page17.php?view=thumbnailList&category=9
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-14-2010
(10-14-2010, 05:34 AM)jeemu You should loose a little and not take everything so serious?Again, why are you even here if you're not going to be a team player? It was like pulling teeth just to get you to post a link a day and a half later.
Dual plenums just add more pressure drops and restriction to the system.
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-14-2010
(10-14-2010, 06:26 AM)ForcedInductionCan you say at you are team player? Most of time you must say some negative about my writings.(10-14-2010, 05:34 AM)jeemu You should loose a little and not take everything so serious?Again, why are you even here if you're not going to be a team player? It was like pulling teeth just to get you to post a link a day and a half later.
Dual plenums just add more pressure drops and restriction to the system.
There is pressure drop if that dont do right. That plenum can adjust how big that hole is.
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-14-2010
(10-14-2010, 07:20 AM)jeemu Can you say at you are team player? Most of time you must say some negative about my writings.Post something good or useful and that could change.
RE: Holset 35? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-14-2010
Jeemu sometimes pics speak louder than words. I appreciate all that you have posted and learn quite a bit from the pics.
I don't post every single detail about what I have done, if someone asks I will give them details, but you are free to look all you want.
I am currently working on water injection and will see how it goes....
If your dual plenum ends up not working then we will learn from that as well...keep pushing the envelope. Some of us care about the work and progress you are making.
RE: Holset 35? - 300D50 - 10-14-2010
I wasn't singling anybody out, I was doing a blanket statement. Sorry if it seemed like a personal attack.
RE: Holset 35? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-14-2010
None taken on my part.
RE: Holset 35? - garage - 10-14-2010
(10-11-2010, 05:11 PM)ForcedInduction The Finns revv their engines upwards of 6000rpm, 7400rpm being the highest I've seen them do in drifting. Even the old 617 I've seen them revv to 5700rpm.
Forced, is that your tach?
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-14-2010
Hell no, I know better than to revv an old engine like that.
RE: Holset 35? - George3soccer - 10-14-2010
Thank you jeemu, hey I am here to learn more and more on these motors, I will ask questions everyone can answer them, or just say no. I am fine with it, but I do appreciate you giving me pictures, and answering my questions.
Now with a dual plenium manifold does it matter about the length from the valve to the end of the plenum, for example length to increase/decrease pulsation. I think that is the word I am looking for. I remember you can alter the length of the plenum for different ways to change the way the air travels in the plenum.
Or does this not really matter on a diesel, I would think it does?
RE: Holset 35? - 300D50 - 10-14-2010
I thought 5400 was no-load max speed on an NA 617?
RE: Holset 35? - jeemu - 10-14-2010
(10-14-2010, 07:25 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Jeemu sometimes pics speak louder than words. I appreciate all that you have posted and learn quite a bit from the pics.My engine is always have dual plenum intake.
I don't post every single detail about what I have done, if someone asks I will give them details, but you are free to look all you want.
I am currently working on water injection and will see how it goes....
If your dual plenum ends up not working then we will learn from that as well...keep pushing the envelope. Some of us care about the work and progress you are making.
![[Image: full]](http://jeemu.kuvat.fi/kuvat/550hp%20K%E4yttis%20naku/no_just_joo.jpg/full)
Now i do like this.
![[Image: full]](http://jeemu.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BMW%20E21%20%28diesel%29/IMG_2760.JPG/full)
(10-14-2010, 10:11 AM)George3soccer Thank you jeemu, hey I am here to learn more and more on these motors, I will ask questions everyone can answer them, or just say no. I am fine with it, but I do appreciate you giving me pictures, and answering my questions.Same rules as intake allways when we talk about runners.
Now with a dual plenium manifold does it matter about the length from the valve to the end of the plenum, for example length to increase/decrease pulsation. I think that is the word I am looking for. I remember you can alter the length of the plenum for different ways to change the way the air travels in the plenum.
Or does this not really matter on a diesel, I would think it does?
What come about that hole between the chambers, it must be same size as the boost pipe.
RE: Holset 35? - JTY - 10-14-2010
No problem revving that old OM617 beast, it revs really happy with 7mm elements. Been driving it really hard whole summer, revving it past 6kRPM and no problems at all.
Ofcourse if you have an over 600tkm driven engine you should be little carefull before you triple its output power and start revving over 6kRPM
RE: Holset 35? - ForcedInduction - 10-14-2010
(10-14-2010, 10:59 AM)300D50 I thought 5400 was no-load max speed on an NA 617?
For factory settings it is.