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+--- Thread: water injector? (/showthread.php?tid=1861)
water injector? - larsalan - 10-15-2010
I was just over at rudolph's skunkworks thread and got looking at water injection systems. I read on to see that injecting water might be used as a good way to steam clean the 617 motor.
As you may also know my alda system is all messed up. As such there is what I think would be a great spot for a water injector. At the aft end of the intake manifold there is a banjo bolt that is doing nothing now.
Sound like a feasible plan for an occasional cleaning?
RE: water injector? - George3soccer - 10-15-2010
Just get a good water/meth mix, and have it injected during driving, and not just for cleaning the motor.
RE: water injector? - larsalan - 10-15-2010
(10-15-2010, 11:05 AM)George3soccer Just get a good water/meth mix, and have it injected during driving, and not just for cleaning the motor.
from that spot I had mentioned? Where could I find an injector to fit in there? All of this is a while off as I am broke but, I'd like to work on the planning.
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-15-2010
I would inject it where the EGR mounts, that way it is distributed along the intake manifold. Otherwise it may be inhibited by the boost pressure moving along the manifold toward #5 cylinder.
RE: water injector? - 300D50 - 10-15-2010
That banjo bolt is close to unobtanium, keep that in mind before thinking of modifying it for any other duty.
RE: water injector? - larsalan - 10-15-2010
(10-15-2010, 12:49 PM)300D50 That banjo bolt is close to unobtanium, keep that in mind before thinking of modifying it for any other duty.
I wouldn't modify it. Just take it out and then I would have a threaded spot in my intake manifold. Maybe that would be a good spot for a boost gauge and I can try what rudolf suggests.
I dunno how I would mod the egr inlet to allow injection. I guess tap a piece of steel plate and use that to join to the void left by removing the egr. How thick a piece of steel would I need to make a good set of threads?
I read that windshield cleaner. The blue or purple stuff is meth/water. Is that ok to put in the engine? I am kinda blown away by the idea of water being put into a combustion chamber.
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-15-2010
(10-15-2010, 10:03 AM)larsalan As such there is what I think would be a great spot for a water injector.That will only inject into the #5 cylinder and hydrolock it.
(10-15-2010, 12:49 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I would inject it where the EGR mounts, that way it is distributed along the intake manifold.That would inject almost entirely into the #1 cylinder.
Thats where my original system injected and it returned really poor results.
The turbo housing is the closest point water should be injected into the engine.
Just moving back the injection point 3" makes a night and day difference in how the system works.
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-15-2010
What are you using for nozzles FI?
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-15-2010
200cc on the 240D (pictured) and 6x70cc on the 300D.
RE: water injector? - larsalan - 10-15-2010
FI you say the turbo housing is the closest water should be injected. The only place further would be pre turbo. I read some people having concern about putting water through the turbo.
Would you say it's ok to put water through the turbo. Or is the turbo housing essentially the best place to put it in.
Also what about that wiper fluid? Is that really meth/water and a proper mix to inject?
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-15-2010
(10-15-2010, 05:57 PM)ForcedInduction 200cc on the 240D (pictured) and 6x70cc on the 300D.
I know the quantity from what I have read about your system, I mean what brand or style? Do you have a link or pic?
I have a very atomized spray pattern from the results of my testing with nozzle and pump combo.
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-15-2010
(10-15-2010, 06:05 PM)larsalan Would you say it's ok to put water through the turbo.No. Thats the worst place.
Quote:Also what about that wiper fluid?I use off the shelf -20*f washer fluid in both my systems. Its just water, 35% methanol and blue dye.
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-15-2010
Some people inject before the turbo, it supposedly changes some characteristics of the turbo, but others have reported about compressor erosion. Personally I wouldn't put it in that position.
I use 50% distilled water and 50% denatured alcohol, it is pretty expensive, but it works for me.
RE: water injector? - alarm92 - 10-16-2010
(10-15-2010, 06:20 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Some people inject before the turbo, it supposedly changes some characteristics of the turbo, but others have reported about compressor erosion. Personally I wouldn't put it in that position.
I use 50% distilled water and 50% denatured alcohol, it is pretty expensive, but it works for me.
I work at sea, and we actually wash our turbos with water
First we push the engines at over 250 rpm (!!), then when the turbine is god and worm, we spray about 1 liter of water and crushed nuts inn it(høhø). This hits the blades and they sort of vibrates. Then they are clean and god to go ;P
We only do the nut trick on the exhaust side of the turbine, at the compressor side we use clean water
Aaand, this is my first post ^^,
RE: water injector? - larsalan - 10-16-2010
^ nuts? like pecans or walnuts?
So, today I ran my window wiper hose into the intake pre-turbo. That stuff really adds pep at the high end! I can only imagine most of the kick comes from the meth.
RE: water injector? - alarm92 - 10-16-2010
(10-16-2010, 12:04 PM)larsalan ^ nuts? like pecans or walnuts?
So, today I ran my window wiper hose into the intake pre-turbo. That stuff really adds pep at the high end! I can only imagine most of the kick comes from the meth.
Hazelnuts it the good stuff
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-16-2010
(10-16-2010, 12:04 PM)larsalan So, today I ran my window wiper hose into the intake pre-turbo.
Stop that!
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-16-2010
(10-16-2010, 06:07 PM)ForcedInduction(10-16-2010, 12:04 PM)larsalan So, today I ran my window wiper hose into the intake pre-turbo.
Stop that!
Yes he should approach this a better way, Please tell him why he should stop...
RE: water injector? - larsalan - 10-16-2010
Oh, ok I'll stop. Just wanted to see it work.
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-16-2010
Quote:Please tell him why he should stop.Okay; snapping the turbo's shaft and/or hydrolocking the engine.
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-17-2010
FI are using a WI specific nozzle? It looks like your fittings are 1/8th NPT and I am trying to figure out how you have the nozzles intalled...
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-17-2010
Yes.
http://www.aquastealth.com/nozzleassemblies.aspx
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-17-2010
(10-17-2010, 11:04 AM)ForcedInduction Yes.
http://www.aquastealth.com/nozzleassemblies.aspx
Ok, I will have to buy one and see how it is put together. The one I am using has a small orifice and a stem inside that has four groves cut into the end and is spring loaded. It puts out a fine mist like the cooling mist nozzles used for cooling people outdoors, the drops are slightly larger.
http://burner.danfoss.com/danfosshago/documents/service-download-literature/M%20&%20MW.pdf
RE: water injector? - ForcedInduction - 10-17-2010
(10-17-2010, 11:43 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Ok, I will have to buy one and see how it is put together. The one I am using has a small orifice and a stem inside that has four groves cut into the end and is spring loaded.
Thats more like an actual injector. Most water nozzles are just machined.
RE: water injector? - Rudolf_Diesel - 10-17-2010
My spray pattern looks just like the one in the video.
RE: water injector? - larsalan - 10-21-2010
I had told this guy nick about the water injection and how it is supposed to increase compression and cool intake air.
He says a friend of his has done it w/ some semi tractors. Then he says be careful you don't bend a valve or put a hole in a piston. Don't those things sound like baloney or are those real possibilities?
RE: water injector? - 300D50 - 10-21-2010
Depends if you flood a cylinder with H2O and try to comprress it...