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+--- Thread: om603 clutch options. (/showthread.php?tid=2077)
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om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 12-21-2010
My 5 speed swap is done for like 2 months now and I am slipping at WOT in 4th and 5th and still have 1/4" on the linkage before hitting max stop.
I believe I have the 8.5" clutch and need the 9" clutch. Rock auto has the 9" for under $200 however there are two different part numbers, I am thinking different pressure plates. I am going to put an email in to tom @ classic parts and see if there were different pressure plates available.
peachparts thread here http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=256585&page=7
Supposedly there is a 9.5 but I think that is dual mass.
RE: om603 clutch options. - ForcedInduction - 12-21-2010
What happened to cutting the FW shallower for more plate pressure?
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 12-21-2010
While doable, I will start with the proper stock plate (9" over 8.5"). Someone worked it out to something like 20% more surface area. I would cut the fw as a last resort because it will also change the throw out depth.
RE: om603 clutch options. - 300D50 - 12-21-2010
There's already a few mm of extra linkage/cylinder throw that compensates.
Compared to the 5 thousandths or so you'd shave from the step, that's less than regular clutch wear over the course of it's life, even accounting for how the PP fingers will slightly exagerate it.
$$$$ or $$, OEM or BarnYard, your choice.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-04-2011
What is the best readily available flywheel for the om603 190e 190d or 300e I have heard about an 8" 9" and 9.5"
I'm planing on using one of those but modified to fit with the 6spd witch has a shorter input shaft that requires the through out bearing to be in the flywheel
I liked the mod they did for this setup in the 1st pic
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-toyota-pickup-om617-swap
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-04-2011
I believe the 190e 16v's got a 228mm (9") flywheel, that's the biggest common one. 300e would be 240mm, definitely not common.
RE: om603 clutch options. - erling66 - 04-05-2011
Here is a FW and clutch and the transmission I took off a w124 1995 euro with om606.910 and 5 speed 717.433. The clutch is 9 inch and it is a dual mass FW. Weight is 16,2 kg and 21,7kg with clutch and PP. Works great with the stock 136hp. I just tried and a slk230 6 speed(716.631) bolt straight up
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-05-2011
Did the input shaft and pilot bearing line up with the 6spd?
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-06-2011
Why wouldn't it, I'm sure the reason the 6 speed shaft is shorter is because it was designed for dual-mass flywheels.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-06-2011
Interesting I had ordered a duel mass fly wheel form a c230 kompressor but it got lost in the mail it was the original from the same car the 6spd comes out of
but it weighs 50+ pounds complete with the pressure plate
RE: om603 clutch options. - erling66 - 04-06-2011
(04-05-2011, 09:19 PM)willbhere4u Did the input shaft and pilot bearing line up with the 6spd?
Yes it lines up
I guess all the 4 and 6(no V)cyl engine 6 spd boxes will bolt on to OM60X if you use any of the dual mass FWs. The question is how much torque can the dual mass FW handle?Do anyone know if it is possible to open them and put stronger springs?
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-06-2011
muuris had a neat pic in other thread, a custom single mass designed to work with the shorter shafts:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-w124-om606-manual-setup?pid=27728#pid27728
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-22-2011
What are the chances a sprinter flywheel/clutch would fit an om603????
http://cgi.ebay.com/MERCEDES-SPRINTER-311CDI-FLYWHEEL-FLY-WHEEL-CLUTCH-/260661803062?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cb0a77836
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/MERCEDES-VITO-108-CDI-FLYWHEEL-FLY-WHEEL-CLUTCH-/280559591039?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4152a79e7f
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 04-22-2011
The the friction disc fits I believe but from the inline, not the v engine. I could be wrong. I ordered a 9.5" clutch kit from Sachs off of rockauto. Hopefully it will be fitted in the next 2 weeks.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-23-2011
I was curious about the flywheel because these kits come complete with a single mass flywheel, clutch disk and pressure plate for an insanely low price!
The second link is a 2.2 CDI 4 cylinder one fits the 108 Mercedes Vito
It would be awesome for my application if the flywheel would fit the om603? because it converts from a dual mass to single mass! and would probably take care of my input shaft bearing
From what I have found the Mercedes 108 sprinter had any where from 82-130 hp with the om611 2.2 CDI
the clutch disc is 228mm or 9"? 26 spline disc and 26.5-28.7mm spline diameter
if this would work with a fairly stock 300sdl powered w126 I don't know but I'd be willing to test it with my 6spd
It looks like the om611 replace the om604 in the sprinter/vito
If i knew the flywheel would bolt up to my om603 I would order it! it's around $500 for the whole kit including the single mass flywheel to replace a duel mass flywheel!
RE: om603 clutch options. - erling66 - 04-23-2011
(04-22-2011, 07:06 PM)willbhere4u What are the chances a sprinter flywheel/clutch would fit an om603????
http://cgi.ebay.com/MERCEDES-SPRINTER-311CDI-FLYWHEEL-FLY-WHEEL-CLUTCH-/260661803062?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cb0a77836
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/MERCEDES-VITO-108-CDI-FLYWHEEL-FLY-WHEEL-CLUTCH-/280559591039?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4152a79e7f
Those flywheels use 6 bolts to the crank. 603 use 8. But maybe the photos are not actual photos of the set.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is a photo of a non Mercedes FW. Is there any Mercedes FW with a flat face like that which will fit a OM60X?
I saw in Summit racing catalog that there are lots of clutch kits with 26 spline 1,125 inch axle in any dia that will fit the Mercedes gearbox, the only thing I have not found is a flat face flywheel
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-24-2011
I think that's not an actual pic I have seen others that show 8 bolt flywheels in the pics
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-24-2011
(04-23-2011, 03:20 PM)erling66 I saw in Summit racing catalog that there are lots of clutch kits with 26 spline 1,125 inch axle in any dia that will fit the Mercedes gearbox
I tried a chevy 1.125 26 spline disc, it doesn't fit.
RE: om603 clutch options. - erling66 - 04-25-2011
(04-24-2011, 06:00 PM)aaaThat's the disc I had in mind. Do you mean it doesn't fit on the gearbox axle? It should since it is the same dia and spline(04-23-2011, 03:20 PM)erling66 I saw in Summit racing catalog that there are lots of clutch kits with 26 spline 1,125 inch axle in any dia that will fit the Mercedes gearbox
I tried a chevy 1.125 26 spline disc, it doesn't fit.
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-25-2011
The splines are ever so slightly different apparently. They seem to be deeper than the mercedes spline.
RE: om603 clutch options. - erling66 - 04-25-2011
AAA thank you for info(saved me some money) Maybe I will go for the solution Muuris and Jeemu have. Custom FW, Mercedes C250TD disc and BMW M5 PP. I am sure they tried many different options before they came up with that solution.
OR is there anyone else that use something else?(300+ HP)
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 04-25-2011
I am going with the 300e clutch/fw 9.5" if it fits? Not sure if its good for 300hp but it should be enough for me.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-25-2011
Once I have cash in have I'm ordering one of these solid mass flywheel conversion kit for the 2.2 cdi sprinter and will see how it works out!
I finally saw an actual pic and it is an 8 bolt flywheel with the the pilot bearing in it!
it's a 240mm disc 26 spline
The whole kit
Single mass flywheel designed for duel mass set ups,
clutch disc, 240mm 9.5"
pressure plate,
through out bearing,
and concentric slave cylinder,
all bolts )
$580 us+ 80 euro shipping
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-25-2011
(04-25-2011, 10:27 AM)winmutt I am going with the 300e clutch/fw 9.5" if it fits? Not sure if its good for 300hp but it should be enough for me.
I doubt it will, on the flywheel side instead. I don't think the disc will fit in the flywheel you have.
(04-25-2011, 11:47 AM)willbhere4u and concentric slave cylinder,
Those look quite neat, I wonder if they'll work easily.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-25-2011
I am using a 6spd out of a 2003 c230 kompressor and they come set up stock for a concentric slave cylinder
RE: om603 clutch options. - erling66 - 04-25-2011
Here are a 2 photos, maybe they are of interest. One is of a 606.910 dual mass FW with 9 inch clutch and of a 602 single mass FW with 8,5 inch clutch.
The other show the difference of long and short gear axle. from left, 717.433(606.910 5 speed), 717.410(602 5 speed) and 716.631(slk 6 speed).
Is there anyone that has a photo of the 300e FW, clutch and PP?
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 04-25-2011
There's a thread on 190rev where someone bought an m103 flywheel new. Apparently they made more of them in 2008.
http://190rev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35398&page=4
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-25-2011
pics of valeo kit
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 04-26-2011
Thanks to my awesome girlfriend for helping me get this clutch kit!
The kit comes complete with
1. solid mass flywheel
2. flywheel bolts
3. clutch disc
4. pressure plate
5. pressure plate bolts
6. concentric slave cylinder
For only $730 including the shipping! boy is she going to kill me if this doesn't work!
My 1987 300SDL will be running a 2.2cdi sprinter solid mass flywheel with a 9.5"/240mm disc
and a 2002 c230 2.3 kompressor 6spd transmission
As far as the specs go the sprinter with the 2.2cdi /om611 had 130hp and 220 ft lb's and weighs a boat load more than my 300sdl so hopefully it can handle my om603 and w126
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 05-03-2011
We find out tonight if a 2.2 sprinter CDI 9.5"/240mm clutch kit and solid mass flywheel fits in side the c230 6spd manual transmission I have! fingers crossed every one!
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 05-03-2011
It's here and it fits the transmission hell's yea!
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 05-04-2011
I should have my trans off this weekend to find out if mine fits.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 05-04-2011
That flywheel has got to weigh 35# or more the package was 52# total
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 05-07-2011
(04-25-2011, 02:45 PM)aaa(04-25-2011, 10:27 AM)winmutt I am going with the 300e clutch/fw 9.5" if it fits? Not sure if its good for 300hp but it should be enough for me.
I doubt it will, on the flywheel side instead. I don't think the disc will fit in the flywheel you have.
There is an 8 in there. I bought a 9.5 and a 9. Looks like 8.5 is the correct.
I found that Oreillys has the best prices on Sachs kits in all sizes.
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 05-08-2011
Aren't you going to need an 8.5 pressure plate as well?
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 05-08-2011
I'm confused? isn't the sprinter clutch 9.5"
RE: om603 clutch options. - aaa - 05-08-2011
I was talking about winmutt's setup.
RE: om603 clutch options. - willbhere4u - 05-08-2011
I thought he was using the sprinter 9.5" disc?
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 05-09-2011
I was using the 9.5" from the 16v. 9" was just a bit too large for my flywheel.
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 05-12-2011
For future reference, the 8 and 8.5 share the same mounting for the clutch plate if you have an 8 the 8.5 will work. The 9 and 9.5 are both different.
I'M CONFUSED: om603 clutch options. - Joaquin Suave - 01-22-2013
The stock 8.5" clutch that I got with my 717.411 trans is to "wimpy" to handle a OM603.... Right???
I can replace it with a 9.5" clutch kit made by Sach... Right???
OR
I can use a 9" from a 2.3L-16v... Right???
I own a machine shop so mods are not a issue for me however I not wanting to throw cubic $$$ at the project.
Any clarification would be GREATLY APPRICATED!
RE: om603 clutch options. - raysorenson - 01-22-2013
The stock 9" from the 16v is just barely strong enough for my 603. Fast shifts in cold weather go just a little too smoothly. No slipping, but you can tell the motor is taking all the clutch has. I wouldn't take it to the dragstrip. I think a Spec stage 1 9" would be perfect for an abusively driven stock 603.
As for a 9" FW being hogged out to accept a 9.5", please try it:-) If the PP bolts up, then why not? And if it doesn't work, you could probably just drop the 9" clutch back in.
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 01-22-2013
I have the 8.5 and it slips. I also have a 9" I plan on putting in the next time the trans is out. The 9.5" is for the dual mass fw only. Just remember that that slip is protecting your trans from some abuse!
RE: om603 clutch options. - Joaquin Suave - 01-22-2013
Quote:I think a Spec stage 1 9" would be perfect for an abusively driven stock 603.
Could you elaborate further? Is that a brand or a style?
How about a linki?
RE: om603 clutch options. - raysorenson - 01-22-2013
http://www.lmperformance.com/121755/.html
Spec is a brand. The stage one is just a pressure plate with stiffer springs and an organic disc. From there, they achieve more holding force with different friction materials that get less and less amenable to daily driving.
The stock clutch is so light it feels like a toy, so I wouldn't mind a stiffer pedal.
(01-22-2013, 02:39 PM)winmutt Just remember that that slip is protecting your trans from some abuse!
So says the guy with a Dieselmeken pump!
RE: om603 clutch options. - tjts1 - 05-10-2013
I'm in the middle of installing a 5spd in my om603 and noticed 9" pressure plate I ordered for the dual mass 190e 2.6 flywheel is marked "M228/M240" meaning it with fit either the 9" or 9.5" friction disk just like the flywheel.
Does anybody have a part number or source for the Sachs 9.5" dual mass friction disk on its own? I'm going to live with the 9" disk for now it would be a cheap upgrade if i can get the disk on its own. Rockauto has the complete dual mass 9" clutch kit for $92 and the 9.5" for $260. Can't seem to find just the disk.
Thanks
RE: om603 clutch options. - HaavardPYA - 05-30-2013
As i understand from this post. My 240mm clutch and PP from 300E dual mass FW will fit a C250TD FW? Because the C250TD have 240mm clutch as standard, right?
Need a quick answer, haha
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 07-24-2014
Bringing back the old thread. I got a clutch masters "stage 2". Well 2 is right because it doesnt hold in the top end of 2nd gear.
Seems that clamping pressure is the important factor here. Other than the 7.25 clutch what are my options?
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 07-24-2014
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/media/_shared_media/08_media_library/01_publications/automotiveaftermarket/brochure_1/downloads_5/luk_kupplungskurs_pkw_de_en.pdf
Breaks down the math for effective torque transer:
Md = rm x n x μ x Fa
The abbreviations mean:
rm = Mean friction radius
n = Number of clutch facings
µ = Clutch facing friction coefficient
Fa = Clamp load
Md = Transmittable torque
Example
Facing inner diameter dj = 134 mm
Facing outer diameter da = 190 mm
Clamp load F = 3500 N
= 81 x 10 –3 m mean friction radius
= = 81mm 162 mm
2
dm
2
rm =
=162 mm mean friction diameter
= 134 mm+190 mm
2
di+da
2
dm =
The transmittable torque of a clutch must always
be greater than the maximum engine torque.
Friction coefficient µ =
0.27–0.32 (for organic facings)
0.36–0.40 (for inorganic facings)
Md = (81 x 10–3m) x 2 x 0.27 x 3500 N
Md = 153 Nm
RE: om603 clutch options. - winmutt - 07-25-2014
More goodness, Sachs NM values!
http://www.dbmengineering.nl/dbm/tuning/trans/koppel.pdf