+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS (/showthread.php?tid=2369)
HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 03-09-2011
Hi Guys,
Its my first post here,thanks for all info you are giving to the world.
I have just purchased brand new holset HX40 from ebay for 200 pounds,without knowing how big is it,with the intention of installing on my om606 engine...
My silly question is could I run it properly with 6mm elements installed on om603 IP,in order to achieve 250 bhp?
Or it is not necessary to use this huge laggy turbo for such a power band?
I have just wanted to get new turbo,rather driving with 200k miles tyred and smokey one charger...But I didnt expect such a giant...I had a lot of experience with modifying supra running on garret gt42r and I know most of tuning basics.
Thanks in advance......
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - jonbobshinigin - 03-09-2011
Others will give you more detailed info but an HX35 should get you 350hp or so...an HX40 is much too large for your goals. User GSXR recently installed a 6mm 603 pump into a 3.0l 603 and did not quite hit 200hp if I recall correctly. Ge also used a turbo off of a 3.5l 603. I think you will need larger elements and a smaller turbo to reach your goals. However, this is based on my research a 603, not a 606.
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - E300TSC - 03-09-2011
Hi Dan,
That turbo is way oversized for your HP goals. Although, it's the 8 blade version which I believe flows a little less than the 6 blade or the 7 blade that I have. You did get it for a good price though.
I think in any case, this turbo will lag pretty badly.
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - ForcedInduction - 03-10-2011
For "only" 250hp, an HX35 will be more than enough. An HX40 will be very slow to spool up.
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 05-02-2011
Hi guys,thank for all of your answers,the project is a bit changed now.I have sold that holset,and I will be using stock electronic pump with abs and immob.removed.As you know g class are offroad vehicles and its much more important to have high torque on lower rpms.Therefore Im looking info for VNT chargers that could give me a bit more perfomance than stock KKK turbo.I have read somewhere that garretts GT22 and GT23 vnts are not good on OM606 but I can not figured out why?They turbine looks much bigger than KKK turbo.
I have installed and drive for 1 year now GT22 on my 2.2 cdi sprinter and it perfomce really well with torque comming 500 rpms higher than stock 2.2 cdi turbo.I know that common rail cdi engine are way different than OM606,but it could be nice if someone suggested just a bit biiger VNt turbo than stock KKK turbo?Thanks for you answers in advance...
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - aaa - 05-02-2011
Just go for a VNT that's easy to find for you. Like a GT23.
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - dieselmeken - 05-03-2011
(05-02-2011, 05:11 PM)aaa Just go for a VNT that's easy to find for you. Like a GT23.
BAD Idea! They have it on larger trucks also, think its called exhaust brake there...........................................
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - winmutt - 05-03-2011
(05-03-2011, 05:49 AM)dieselmeken(05-02-2011, 05:11 PM)aaa Just go for a VNT that's easy to find for you. Like a GT23.
BAD Idea! They have it on larger trucks also, think its called exhaust brake there...........................................
Are you saying VNT turbo is a bad idea?
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - dieselmeken - 05-03-2011
(05-03-2011, 07:49 AM)winmutt(05-03-2011, 05:49 AM)dieselmeken(05-02-2011, 05:11 PM)aaa Just go for a VNT that's easy to find for you. Like a GT23.
BAD Idea! They have it on larger trucks also, think its called exhaust brake there...........................................
Are you saying VNT turbo is a bad idea?
Yes.
On this application, otherwise when you can regulate it with for example EDC16 / 17 systems they are OK.
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - winmutt - 05-03-2011
(05-03-2011, 11:19 AM)dieselmeken Yes.
On this application, otherwise when you can regulate it with for example EDC16 / 17 systems they are OK.
Oh ah because the om606 is electronically controlled?
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 05-03-2011
But If I keep electronically controlled that turbo where is the problem?
I will be using stock ecu and pump no modification to the pump will be done....I have got already GT23 from e320 cdi and Im planing to try,manifold flange looks the same so it will be plug and play.Thanks
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - aaa - 05-03-2011
I don't think the flange is the same. There are pics here, although it may not be clear in those pics either. I have been meaning to get a photo of the gasket itself but it's on the car now. The sides of the "triangle" are not equal on the Garrett VNT gasket, whereas they appear to be equal sides on the KKK gasket.
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - tomnik - 05-04-2011
(05-03-2011, 12:58 PM)TURBO_DAN But If I keep electronically controlled that turbo where is the problem?
I will be using stock ecu and pump no modification to the pump will be done....I have got already GT23 from e320 cdi and Im planing to try,manifold flange looks the same so it will be plug and play.Thanks
IF you are able to control it...
Simple open - close like for the wastegate is not control.
Tom
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - dieselmeken - 05-04-2011
(05-04-2011, 12:26 AM)tomnik IF you are able to control it...
Simple open - close like for the wastegate is not control.
Tom
Thats exactly what I meant, without control the VNT works like a exhaust brake.
On the Land Rover with the 617 engine that was my idea, Nice and fast spoolup, high tourqe at low rpm. We changed the vaccumregulator for a pressure regulator that was fully out at 9 psi.
The thought with that was quite OK in the teori, but in real life it doesent work so nice...
What we get is fast spoolup, yes, but when we drive and use app 30-40% of the power, the VNT is deliver app 0,5 bar of pressure, that is when I dont need it = exhaust brake feeling.
I havent measured the backpressure in the exhaust mainfold on this one, but the pyrometer is talking to us.
If we had the opportunity to control the regulatorvalve with vaccum, maybee it had worked, But then we need to have serval parameters more, such as RPM, airflow, fuelquantity ,boostpressure ECU etc.
A nice KKK or my favorite turbo Schwitzer with a traditional wastegate this engine is going to work much much better.
On my little Skodapickup with 1,9, IDI engine I tryed a VNT from Volvo D5 engine, it worked yes, but the Schwitzer S1BG worked a lot better
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 10-10-2011
(05-04-2011, 12:36 PM)dieselmekenThanks for that info.I have choice from K 24,K26 or K27 there are very cheep here in UK.The question is which one will give me more power only with remap without modifications to my IP.If not possible with the stock elements to reach 250 bhp I will just go a head with the pump mods.(05-04-2011, 12:26 AM)tomnik IF you are able to control it...
Simple open - close like for the wastegate is not control.
Tom
Thats exactly what I meant, without control the VNT works like a exhaust brake.
On the Land Rover with the 617 engine that was my idea, Nice and fast spoolup, high tourqe at low rpm. We changed the vaccumregulator for a pressure regulator that was fully out at 9 psi.
The thought with that was quite OK in the teori, but in real life it doesent work so nice...
What we get is fast spoolup, yes, but when we drive and use app 30-40% of the power, the VNT is deliver app 0,5 bar of pressure, that is when I dont need it = exhaust brake feeling.
I havent measured the backpressure in the exhaust mainfold on this one, but the pyrometer is talking to us.
If we had the opportunity to control the regulatorvalve with vaccum, maybee it had worked, But then we need to have serval parameters more, such as RPM, airflow, fuelquantity ,boostpressure ECU etc.
A nice KKK or my favorite turbo Schwitzer with a traditional wastegate this engine is going to work much much better.
On my little Skodapickup with 1,9, IDI engine I tryed a VNT from Volvo D5 engine, it worked yes, but the Schwitzer S1BG worked a lot better
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 10-23-2011
Finaly I made my choise,just got brand new turbo GARRETT GT2259,its wastegated turbo used in european model iveco eurocargo 7.5 t lorry.Full turbo specs:
http://turbochargerspecs.blogspot.com/2011/02/garrett-gt22-gt2259-52-trim-280-hp.html
Hope will reach 250 bhp at last.Will keep you update...
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - kotka - 10-29-2011
Dan, imho-if you can wait for a couple of month - I will let you know (I keep fingers crossed to succeed) my set up on G300TD with om606 (33inch bfg) in there.
but it is always up to u to choose your own way
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 10-29-2011
(10-29-2011, 02:37 AM)kotka Dan, imho-if you can wait for a couple of month - I will let you know (I keep fingers crossed to succeed) my set up on G300TD with om606 (33inch bfg) in there.Well I have been given advise that this gt2259 turbo is indentical with stock k14 so I will be puting K27 instead,is coming from mercedes atego trucks,porsche turbo few other aplications.Its big bugger capable of 400 bhp with air flow of 50 lbs/min,ofcourse I have to reprogram the ecu first and maybe will get 250 bhp.If im not happy with the results will change ellements.
but it is always up to u to choose your own way
RE: HOLSET HX40 OM606 IP QUESTIONS - TURBO_DAN - 08-27-2012
Its been a while,but finally my project is completed.The turbo is K26/27 Hybrid,turbine exducer 54 mm,turbine inducer 64mm.Compressor inducer/exducer:48mm/76mm.
New remap was done,water-methanol injection kit installed,Koni 90 series heavy duty shocks.Manual 6 speed gearbox from E class cdi,ceramic clutch plate to hold the torque.Thanks to Muuris for the advice about the turbo suggestions...
This hybrid works much better from Holset HX 35 due to smaller turbine exducer and the same time there is enough air for 300 bhp,it spools at low revs with no smoke.