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+--- Thread: Biodiesel vs Diesel (/showthread.php?tid=2372)
Biodiesel vs Diesel - W116Lorinser - 03-10-2011
I know theres some real anti biodiesel guys on here and i myself was once one of them but with the climbing prices of fuel its really something to look into. Diesel is $4.50 here in nyc and rising.
I have a f350 with a 29 gallon tank and my 19 gallon 300sd.
I have considered buying a complete kit from homebiodieselkits.com since there the most recommended and best around. I was gonna opt for the deluxe $4500 dollar kit and make the fuel myself for $.70 or less a gallon.
I have heard only good things about biodiesel and that it is better then regular diesel.
I just did the math with both cars its 48 gallons a week lets say at $4.25 a gallon to be modest. That comes out to almost $11,000 in fuel a year alone.
The biodiesel comes out to $1,800 a year.... Wow what a difference!
Can anyone chime in on this before i pull the gun and order the kit.
Thanks
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - stan - 03-10-2011
without having done any biodiesel making i will chime in with my thoughts based on doing WVO.
where will you source the oil? do you have a consistent source of acceptable quality?
how will you filter and dewater the oil before beginning the biodiesel brewing? have you factored filtration and dewatering into your plan?
do you have a source for methanol and lye locally? is it expensive? will you have to have methanol freighted to you?
your $0.70/gallon figure sounds off to me unless you'll be getting your WVO 100% free, and picking up methanol in 55 gallon drums from a cheap local supplier...
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - W116Lorinser - 03-10-2011
Homebiodieselkits.com has the complete kit that take care of the filtration and water washing.
Wvo i will be getting for
Free from several family owned restaurants im friends with. The methanol i would buy in large quantities like the 55 gallon drum.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - ForcedInduction - 03-10-2011
(03-10-2011, 01:34 AM)W116Lorinser I know theres some real anti biodiesel guys on hereNo there aren't. Biodeisel is the only viable alternative to Diesel.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - 300D50 - 03-10-2011
I <3 biodiesel.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - stan - 03-10-2011
(03-10-2011, 09:49 AM)W116Lorinser Homebiodieselkits.com has the complete kit that take care of the filtration and water washing.
Wvo i will be getting for
Free from several family owned restaurants im friends with. The methanol i would buy in large quantities like the 55 gallon drum.
not water washing. dewatering. you need to dewater your oil before you start. i know you *can* buy drums of meth, but have you found a source that you can buy it from locally? if not, you're going to need to freight it to you and that will get spendy.
i'm not against the whole thing, i'm actually considering it myself, but you have to think of everything lest you build up a false economy in your head and end up spending way more money than planned.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - W116Lorinser - 03-10-2011
if you ever do any research and not to scare anyone since most knowledgeful people know this already our oil supplys will be gone in the next 40-50 years.
this can only mean the price of oil will only contine to rise dramatically in the years to come. good thing is my business is doing well but im always looking to save some extra money and rather put it into an investment instead of the pump.
even if it winds up costing me $2.00 a gallon with freighting methanol thats still a huge difference and still 60% less then todays prices.
i just wanted to know what kind of maintenance will be required with using B100 or B99.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - 300SD_KY - 03-10-2011
call Lyle over at Piedmont Biofuels in Pittsboro, North Carolina.
Lyle & Tami have one of the most innovative operations anywhere.
Their fuel is Biodiesel Board approved.
No little feat that they're the smallest approved refinery in the US.
Heck, they're probably the smallest approved biodiesel refinery in North America.
I will be driving down there this weekend, filling up the cranium, my twin 14 gallon drums and the tank. I wish (not really) I had a trailer hitch on my W116, and a couple of empty 55 gallon drums to fill up.
Before you go spending some big$, consult a little, read some, and then repeat.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - ForcedInduction - 03-11-2011
(03-10-2011, 06:50 PM)W116Lorinser our oil supplys will be gone in the next 40-50 years.That is false.
There was only "20 years" of oil left as reported by field researchers 35 years ago. There is no "xx years" left because we haven't even remotely found all the oil. There is over 250 years worth of oil in Colorado's oil shales alone, we haven't even surveyed 0.1% of the ocean for oil yet and we can barely drill more than 6.5 miles (not even half of the crust's thickness on continental land).
Quote:this can only mean the price of oil will only contine to rise dramatically in the years to come.Nope. The price of oil goes up because speculators cause it to go up. Oil companies don't make $10B profit every year because oil is hard to get or is running out, they make money because they see major world events like Libya and dream up some reason as to why it affects oil production in Canada or Mexico (our two primary suppliers) so they can charge more per barrel.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - 300SD_KY - 03-11-2011
Hey Forced, I'd say you're on target.
The Saudis are able to keep increasing (old finds) supply "magically".
The Brazilians were able to find massive new supplies not so magically.
All the "smartest" minds in the room, not to mention pension+ funds, are channeled to making money = bet that the price of oil go up, down, flutter.
It saddens me that every day, the majority of the news available on the "serious" channels (radio, tv, print, internet) focuses on oil, war, oil, war, oil, war. This has been so for the last thirty+ years that I've been seriously paying attention.
The "muscle memory" for generations in the USA is oil, war, oil, war, oil, war.
Right now, over on the CFTC.gov website, open interest betting on $200 oil has NEVER been higher.
I love the seriousness that you bring to this forum.
If ever the USA is going to get serious about switching away from oil, war, oil, war, oil, war ... I believe that waste cooking oil-2-diesel will be part of the answer.
The sooner the ICE dies, the better.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - bigblockchev - 03-11-2011
I have been making and using B100 for going on 6 years now. The people making the most off biodiesel are the ones selling 4,500$ kits which generally contain less than 1,000$ in easily sourced parts. I suggest some research on biodiesel infopop forums before spending big bux. The observations about sourcing oil and methanol are quite valid. Nail down a good steady source of good oil before starting out paying for good oil is better than working with free crappy oil. It is not worth the trouble for extra filtration and water removal. Lots of chemical supply companies won't deal with private individuals due to concerns about illegal drug production or even shipping hazardous products. Start with a small home made processor and get some experience before committing , you might not like the amount of work it takes. Cheers Dan
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - Captain America - 03-11-2011
IF someone like you could do the work.... I could buy it and not have to do the work.... Tits!
EDIT: Retarded first sentence
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - W116Lorinser - 03-12-2011
the problem is i also own two large properties and the cost of filling 5,000 gallon diesel and oil boilers is quite crazy especially in this economy. id like to opt for the 200 gallon kit and just pay someone to run the operation for me. that way i can also run my diesel cars as a plus.
the wasted product instead of being thrown away can be used for soap which alot of people do and make a business from that alone.
Would oil from a Mcdonalds or fast food place be a good source of decent oil?
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - stan - 03-12-2011
(03-12-2011, 07:11 PM)W116Lorinser Would oil from a Mcdonalds or fast food place be a good source of decent oil?
ymmv but i've seen the worst oil behind burger joints and doughnut shops. i think the burger joints might be due to the frozen fries getting dumped in the oil - lots of water, and crumbs falling into the oil. my best experiences have been asian restaurants.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - RustyLugNut - 03-14-2011
(03-11-2011, 08:00 AM)ForcedInduction(03-10-2011, 06:50 PM)W116Lorinser our oil supplys will be gone in the next 40-50 years.That is false.
There was only "20 years" of oil left as reported by field researchers 35 years ago. There is no "xx years" left because we haven't even remotely found all the oil. There is over 250 years worth of oil in Colorado's oil shales alone, we haven't even surveyed 0.1% of the ocean for oil yet and we can barely drill more than 6.5 miles (not even half of the crust's thickness on continental land).
The concept to discuss is "peak oil". Google it. It is not that all of a sudden fossil reserves of oil disappear, they just start tapering of in the RATE of finds. Couple this with the ever increasing RATE of use by the rest of the world and you get to the point where the rate of use far outpaces the rate of oil discovery even if they continue to find and exploit these new source. Most of the "oil finds" are becoming more and more diffuse. There are not the "mega" or billion barrel fields being found anymore as was found here in the US and in the middle east. The oil is in increasingly smaller and smaller fields or in difficult to extract situations. Deep water drilling can be expensive and problematical. Just ask BP. Even though most of the ocean is unexplored, we know that most of it is of a geology that is not conducive to finding large oil reserves. Abiotic sources do occur in these geologies but they are not economically viable due to their depth in the ocean and their exceedingly small quantities found in each pocket. And yes, North America is blessed with hundreds of years of oil shale deposits. But like coal, it takes energy to turn it into liquid fuel. That cost along with the ugly environmental concerns will make shale oil competitive only at high oil prices and a general public that is so desperate that fuel outweighs the environment.
(03-11-2011, 08:00 AM)ForcedInduction(03-10-2011, 06:50 PM)W116Lorinser this can only mean the price of oil will only contine to rise dramatically in the years to come.Nope. The price of oil goes up because speculators cause it to go up. Oil companies don't make $10B profit every year because oil is hard to get or is running out, they make money because they see major world events like Libya and dream up some reason as to why it affects oil production in Canada or Mexico (our two primary suppliers) so they can charge more per barrel.
Speculation is the cause of short term price increases in oil. But the decade long run up in oil prices is simply demand is starting to outpace production. OPEC used to be able to temper the fluctuations caused by speculation. It is NOT in their interests to have the world economy collapse due to high energy costs. But in the last decade or so, we have seen OPEC reach into their reserves and increase their production only to see China and India come on the scene as growing industrial powers and suck up any buffers OPEC had. The increased reserves the Saudi's are reporting are just that - a new way to report old oil reserves. They have found no significant oil reserves in decades.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - W116Lorinser - 03-14-2011
(03-14-2011, 01:20 PM)RustyLugNut(03-11-2011, 08:00 AM)ForcedInduction(03-10-2011, 06:50 PM)W116Lorinser our oil supplys will be gone in the next 40-50 years.That is false.
There was only "20 years" of oil left as reported by field researchers 35 years ago. There is no "xx years" left because we haven't even remotely found all the oil. There is over 250 years worth of oil in Colorado's oil shales alone, we haven't even surveyed 0.1% of the ocean for oil yet and we can barely drill more than 6.5 miles (not even half of the crust's thickness on continental land).
The concept to discuss is "peak oil". Google it. It is not that all of a sudden fossil reserves of oil disappear, they just start tapering of in the RATE of finds. Couple this with the ever increasing RATE of use by the rest of the world and you get to the point where the rate of use far outpaces the rate of oil discovery even if they continue to find and exploit these new source. Most of the "oil finds" are becoming more and more diffuse. There are not the "mega" or billion barrel fields being found anymore as was found here in the US and in the middle east. The oil is in increasingly smaller and smaller fields or in difficult to extract situations. Deep water drilling can be expensive and problematical. Just ask BP. Even though most of the ocean is unexplored, we know that most of it is of a geology that is not conducive to finding large oil reserves. Abiotic sources do occur in these geologies but they are not economically viable due to their depth in the ocean and their exceedingly small quantities found in each pocket. And yes, North America is blessed with hundreds of years of oil shale deposits. But like coal, it takes energy to turn it into liquid fuel. That cost along with the ugly environmental concerns will make shale oil competitive only at high oil prices and a general public that is so desperate that fuel outweighs the environment.
(03-11-2011, 08:00 AM)ForcedInduction(03-10-2011, 06:50 PM)W116Lorinser this can only mean the price of oil will only contine to rise dramatically in the years to come.Nope. The price of oil goes up because speculators cause it to go up. Oil companies don't make $10B profit every year because oil is hard to get or is running out, they make money because they see major world events like Libya and dream up some reason as to why it affects oil production in Canada or Mexico (our two primary suppliers) so they can charge more per barrel.
Speculation is the cause of short term price increases in oil. But the decade long run up in oil prices is simply demand is starting to outpace production. OPEC used to be able to temper the fluctuations caused by speculation. It is NOT in their interests to have the world economy collapse due to high energy costs. But in the last decade or so, we have seen OPEC reach into their reserves and increase their production only to see China and India come on the scene as growing industrial powers and suck up any buffers OPEC had. The increased reserves the Saudi's are reporting are just that - a new way to report old oil reserves. They have found no significant oil reserves in decades.
thank god another person that understands WHAT is actually going on in the World....
btw i heard that Biodiesel Gels at a Higher Temperature then Diesel... i have heard it gels at 32 degrees??? is this true?
thanks
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - RustyLugNut - 03-15-2011
' btw i heard that Biodiesel Gels at a Higher Temperature then Diesel... i have heard it gels at 32 degrees??? is this true?
This is true for some bio diesel. It depends on the oil used as the starting stock before transesterification into bio-diesel. Some oil stocks result in BD that gell at a higher points, and some result in a lower gelling point. 32 deg F or 0 deg C is just a starting point. Many BD stocks gell much lower. The military has done much research on this as they are the biggest single user of diesel in the US as an entity. They even have a bio-gas to liquid fuel that is indistinguishable from JP8 and just passed certification for use in several aircraft types.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - ForcedInduction - 03-15-2011
Animal fats have the highest gel temperature. Most vegetable biodiesels will gel around 20-30*f.
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - Captain America - 03-15-2011
what IS Jp8 anyway?
A buddy used to put it in his F250... Sounded different
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - larsalan - 03-15-2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP-8
RE: Biodiesel vs Diesel - Captain America - 03-16-2011
(03-15-2011, 09:12 PM)larsalan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP-8
Guess I coulda done that haha