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+--- Thread: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces (/showthread.php?tid=2456)
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Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 03-30-2011
I thought it'd be cool to start a thread where someone looking to rebuild a 617a could come to a one stop shop to get information on the best parts, prices and places to get them ...
In a (BRAND) ... (PRICE) ... (PART #) ... (SOURCE) format
Head gasket
Bearings
Rings
Timing Chain
Water Pump
Lift Pump
And so on.
Even little stuff like bushings, filters, tools, could be noted here... A good resource thread.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - ForcedInduction - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 12:04 AM)Captain America Head gasketOEM only.
Bearings
Rings
Timing Chain
Water Pump
Lift Pump
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 03-30-2011
So there's no better aftermarket anything?
Like a Cometic Head gasket...
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - ForcedInduction - 03-30-2011
For a 617, no. For the 602/603 there is the 605/606 headgasket.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - babymog - 03-30-2011
What does the 606 head gasket do for the 603?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - ConnClark - 03-31-2011
how does a head gasket improve performance?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - ForcedInduction - 03-31-2011
Its stronger so it takes higher combustion pressures with less risk of blowing out.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - babymog - 03-31-2011
Are the stainless-steel rings thicker? If they are, wouldn't that require different stretch-bolts?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Motorhead - 03-31-2011
It would be great to find a MLS (Multi-Layer Stainless steel) gasket for the 617, I have used them with boost up to 32#'s on gas engines and they came back for more. One theing they can do is weep a little coolant when they are first installed but I spray them with copper hy-tack just prior to install and they never give me any problems, there are many company that make MLS type gaskets so if Cometic does not make one just keep on looking.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 03-31-2011
(03-31-2011, 11:40 PM)Motorhead It would be great to find a MLS (Multi-Layer Stainless steel) gasket for the 617, I have used them with boost up to 32#'s on gas engines and they came back for more. One theing they can do is weep a little coolant when they are first installed but I spray them with copper hy-tack just prior to install and they never give me any problems, there are many company that make MLS type gaskets so if Cometic does not make one just keep on looking.
Exactly what I am looking for...
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 03-31-2011
Get the raw gasket material and punch your own?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - winmutt - 04-01-2011
IIRC the Finns had an MLS in the green wagon or one of the other 617 demons.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 04-01-2011
Was browsing around the infotubes, and got an idear.
Why not a custom copper head gasket?
If done right, it would outlast other gaskets and be reuseable.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - garage - 04-01-2011
(04-01-2011, 01:28 PM)300D50 Was browsing around the infotubes, and got an idear.
Why not a custom copper head gasket?
If done right, it would outlast other gaskets and be reuseable.
I belive biohazard had one made.
I think he had it made a little thicker also..
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Biohazard - 04-01-2011
Yup. I had one made, it is slightly thicker than stock. I don't remember the specs off the top of my head. It dropped the compression down to about 18:1. One thing I'm still working on is the PreChamber depth. I have stock 2.0mm sealing washers in now, still looking for thinner ones to drop the PC down closer to the piston where it is supposed to be. Also, with the lower compression and/or PC sitting "higher" than normal, I have a noticable increase in smoke when the car is cold. I sprayed the gasket with the Copper sealing spray before putting it on as well to help with sealing.
If you contact Cometic, they should have the pattern on file.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - jeemu - 04-01-2011
Why not order MLS gasket if its needed? Not want put that much money on gasket?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Biohazard - 04-01-2011
(04-01-2011, 03:01 PM)jeemu Why not order MLS gasket if its needed? Not want put that much money on gasket?
I was going to do the MLS gasket, but Cometic couldn't do one in the thickness I wanted, so I went with the solid Copper.
edit: A couple notes on the head gasket. The car is slightly harder to start when it's cold out. I let the glow plugs run a bit longer after the light goes out before starting it and that helps. I did coat the gasket with the copper spray, but I still loose a bit of coolant over time. This is also worse when it's cold and I believe it is seeping past until it all warms up good and proper. By a bit of coolant, I mean a couple cups +/- over a month or so in the cold winter temps; lots of warmup idling and expansion/contraction.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - jeemu - 04-01-2011
Copper gasket not that good than MLS
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Biohazard - 04-01-2011
Yeah, I know.
But, I was set on lowering the compression ratio, so that was about the only option I could find. I've actually been pretty happy with the headgasket so far. I was hoping to find someone to o-ring my head, but no one local had the required skills. They all said they could machine a block but not a cylinder head? 
Meh.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Motorhead - 04-01-2011
We use the solid copper gaskets with "O" rings in the head and receiver grooves in the block with a spray of Hy-Tac, we run the gasoline engines that are 11.2:1 with 55#s of boost with no problems.
OH let me say the block and heads are Dry Decked, both the block and head coolant passages are blocked off and the coolant is run with hoses from the side of the block to the head.
Now on the lower boost engines we have run the copper/ "O" ring setup with coolant going through the normal passages from the block to the head with no problems, 12:1 with 35#s of boost but a MLS type gasket has amazed me with just how good it holds at 32#s.
If I were going for 500+ in my 617 than the head would be studded and a solid copper "O" ring setup would be used, for everything else I would run a MLS so if anyone finds one please let us know.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-02-2011
Yes I do want to run a MLS just dont know who makes one. Sounds like Cometic will, thanks to Mr. BioHazard
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Motorhead - 04-03-2011
What is the compressed thickness of the stock 617 gasket, the MLS is 3 layers with the outside layers coated for sealing but the center layer is the shim? We order the gaskets in different thickness and I am sure we can get any for the 617 if they already make the gasket, I will go into the shop in the morning and check what a used stock gasket is just for a clue but I would like to get the real #.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - ForcedInduction - 04-03-2011
I'd prefer MLS over copper too. 19.5:1 was good enough for Mercedes to make 195hp reliably so thats what I would prefer.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 04-03-2011
The Cometic Phuzion line looks promising... Then again .051" seems a bit thick for our engines.
I'd say standard MLS would be best.
Too bad it'd be an arm, leg, three gonads, and a left ventricle to have one custom made...
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - JTY - 04-04-2011
(04-01-2011, 03:44 PM)Biohazard Yeah, I know.
Why did you lower the compression in first place ?
OM617A has good compression for high boost, no head gasket problems if both deck and head has been machined properly.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - ForcedInduction - 04-04-2011
(04-04-2011, 09:48 AM)JTY Why did you lower the compression in first place ?
Mercedes felt the need to lower it for reliability, I believe their engineers likely had good reason behind the decision.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Motorhead - 04-06-2011
I could not find one of my old head gaskets but I found a new one and it was .060" thick, I bet with a crimp it will be .051" so I say the Cometic is a go! A couple of years ago we had a 7.3 Ford/Navistar apart and it seems that it had a .061" head gasket but when I pull the head off the engine in my CD I will measure it to be sure.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - JTY - 04-06-2011
(04-04-2011, 09:57 AM)ForcedInduction(04-04-2011, 09:48 AM)JTY Why did you lower the compression in first place ?
Mercedes felt the need to lower it for reliability, I believe their engineers likely had good reason behind the decision.
Yes i know that, i asked why did he lower the compression or is he running OM617 ?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Biohazard - 04-06-2011
(04-06-2011, 05:05 PM)JTY(04-04-2011, 09:57 AM)ForcedInduction(04-04-2011, 09:48 AM)JTY Why did you lower the compression in first place ?
Mercedes felt the need to lower it for reliability, I believe their engineers likely had good reason behind the decision.
Yes i know that, i asked why did he lower the compression or is he running OM617 ?
Hi JTY,
Sorry, forgot to reply sooner. Yes, I'm running the 617A turbo. I lowered the compression to hopefully help make more power once my pump is done.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-19-2011
Thoughts on head studs?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - DeliveryValve - 04-19-2011
Studs are better then bolts for a more accurate and consistent torque loading. I think this is important if your going for higher horsepower and boost pressures then stock. So if you can get them, they are a great idea. Stock engines are fine with bolts.
.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-19-2011
Makin' mentioned that the shop he has his head at said that they use stretch bolts...
I think I can make a stud kit here @ my work, I just don't know what the threads are, lengths and quantities needed...
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 04-19-2011
I've thought of making a set of studs as well, the big issue is they'd need to be hardened evenly...
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - makin' smoke - 04-19-2011
www.germanstar.net
Best prices, availability, and quality. In AZ. My parts showed up next business day.
I would also like to note, when I called it was a knowledgeable guy who knew prices and part numbers off the top of his head. Not a chick that I can barely understand who didn't what the hell I was talking about.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - makin' smoke - 04-19-2011
Yo captain! Got some numbers for you.
M12x1.75 all
5-105mm
9-120mm
8-145mm
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 04-19-2011
Are those nubers just the shank length or are they the overall length including the bolt heads?
The bolt head thickness needs to be known as well, so the right nuts can be procured.
Depending on my finances, I'd be more than willing to get a full set of CapAm studs!
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - makin' smoke - 04-19-2011
Shank with out washer, from base of the head.
Head diameter is 18mm
Washer outside diameter is 22mm
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-22-2011
Fuckin A skippy! I will hunt down some studs tomorrow and report back. Thanks Makin' I have been waiting for this!
P.S. I'm thinking $35 max for a set
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-22-2011
Well, I have bad news.... We have bolts and studs with metric lengths but none with metric threads. Frak!
Actually I do have GM LS studs but they are a M11 x 2.0
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 04-22-2011
What's the minimum order for a custom run?
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-22-2011
Looking into it. Email sent to the factory....
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - 300D50 - 04-22-2011
Maybe you can export to Finland!
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-22-2011
Shouldn't be an issue
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - makin' smoke - 04-23-2011
Damb! That sucks. I thought I was going to be prototyping some studs. Haha
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - jeemu - 04-24-2011
(04-22-2011, 03:13 PM)300D50 Maybe you can export to Finland!Here s not that much fellas who drive those iron engines
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 04-24-2011
(04-24-2011, 03:14 PM)jeemu(04-22-2011, 03:13 PM)300D50 Maybe you can export to Finland!Here s not that much fellas who drive those iron engines
I hate you!
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - JB3 - 05-23-2011
related for reference, heres a fairly complete OM617 parts list for rebuilding-
This was assembled by Roy over at peachparts for VIN- WDBAB33C3FA265177
Screw, pulley to harmonic balancer mounting, (6 per engine, stretch to yield, junk used ones)
MB# 000912 008203
Dowel pin, harmonic balancer mounting, (2 per engine, get extra = single use and easy to damage) I suggest four.
MB# 000007 008244
Flywheel Bolt, (12 Per engine, stretch to yield, junk used ones)
part # 110 990 04 19
Spacer Ring, Front Crankshaft Seal
MB# 615 031 00 51
Oil Pump Tensioner Rail
MB# 617 181 00 59
Oil Pump Chain, With Master Link
MB# 000 997 81 94
"IWIS" Timing Chain, With Master Link, Double Row - 136 Links
MB# 003 997 62 94
Chain Tensioner Rail, (Clamping Lever)
MB# 615 050 09 16
Timing Chain Guide, NOTE: This Nylon Guide Replaces Two Previous Metal/Rubber Chain
Rails.
MB# 615 050 14 16
Timing Chain Guide, Lower - Outer
MB# 615 052 10 16
Timing Chain Guide, Lower - Inner
MB# 615 052 11 16
Piston Ring Set, Standard (90.90 mm) 3.0 - 2.0 - 4.0
MB# 003 030 24 24
Cylinder Sleeve, (5 Per engine)
MB# 616 011 12 10
Bolt rod bearing cap, (10 Per engine, stretch to yield, junk used ones)
MB# 615 038 05 71
Main Bearing Set, Standard 70.00 mm
MB# 617 030 05 40
Rod Bearing Set, Standard 52.00 mm
MB# 617 030 05 60
Thrust Washer Set, (Shim) To Engine Main Bearings 2.15 mm
MB# 617 030 00 62
Washer, bolt cylinder head to block, (22 Per engine)
MB# 102 016 03 76
Cylinder Head Bolt, (5 Per engine, stretch to yield, junk used ones)
MB# 615 990 01 12
Cylinder Head Bolt, 10 X 120 mm, 12 Point Allen Head, (9 Per engine, stretch to yield, junk used ones)
MB# 615 990 02 12
Cylinder Head Bolt, (8 Per engine, stretch to yield, junk used ones)
MB# 615 990 03 12
Gasket kit, short block
MB# 617 010 12 05
Valve Stem Seal Kit, (1 Per ENGINE)
MB# 617 050 00 67
Valve Cover Gasket
MB# 617 016 01 80
Head Gasket Set
MB# 617 010 88 20
Turbo Installation Kit, Contains: (1) Turbo Mount Gasket, (1) Exhaust Manifold, Gasket, (2) Oil
Line Gaskets, (4) Seal Rings
MB# 617 090 06 80
Oil Filter Kit. Contains: (1) Filter Cartridge Plus Seals
MB# 000 180 25 09 67
Repair Kit For Vacuum Pump, Piston Type, Includes Seals and Valves
MB# 000 586 17 23
Valve, check valve
MB# 617 018 00 29
************************************************************************
You may need the following parts if they are damaged....................
Piston, (5 Per engine)
MB# 617 030 10 17
Wrist Pin Bushing, 31.00 MM, (5 Per engine)
MB# 617 038 01 50
Wrist Pin Bushing, 31.50 MM, (5 Per engine)
MB# 617 038 02 50
Prechamber Heat Shield At Diesel Nozzle Tip, (5 Per engine)
MB# 617 017 03 60
Screw collar, injector mounting
MB# 615 017 00 03
Prechamber, diesel injection
MB# 617 010 03 52
Seal ring, STANDARD SIZE, for setting diesel injection prechamber deck height = the CRITICAL
GAP between piston and prechamber.
MB# 615 017 00 60
Seal ring, SIZE 1 = 2.3 MM, for setting diesel injection prechamber deck height = the CRITICAL
GAP between piston and prechamber.
MB# 615 017 01 60
Seal ring, SIZE 2 = 2.6 MM, for setting diesel injection prechamber deck height = the CRITICAL
GAP between piston and prechamber.
MB# 615 017 02 60
Seal ring, SIZE 3 = 2.9 MM, for setting diesel injection prechamber deck height = the CRITICAL
GAP between piston and prechamber.
MB# 615 017 03 60
Locking nut, valve adjustment, (10 Per engine)
MB# 615 053 01 20
Intake Valve, 10 mm Shaft Diameter (5 Per engine)
MB# 617 053 00 01
Exhaust Valve, 10 mm Shaft Diameter (5 Per engine)
MB# 617 050 00 27
Intake Valve Guide, STANDARD, 14 MM
MB# 616 053 03 29
Intake Valve Guide, REPAIR SIZE, 14.20 MM
MB# 616 053 03 29
Exhaust Valve Guide, STANDARD, 14 MM
MB# 616 053 03 30
Exhaust Valve Guide, REPAIR SIZE, 14.20 MM
MB# 616 053 04 30
Valve Spring, Outer
MB# 615 053 01 20
Bushing, valve rocker arm, (10 per engine)
MB# 615 053 01 20
Woodruff Key, 5 deg. offset. Camshaft Gear to Camshaft, To Adjust Valve Timing
MB# 621 991 00 67
Woodruff Key, 3 deg. offset. Camshaft Gear to Camshaft, To Adjust Valve Timing
MB# 6621 991 02 67
Woodruff Key, 2 deg. offset. Camshaft Gear to Camshaft, To Adjust Valve Timing
MB# 6621 991 02 67
Woodruff Key, standard. Camshaft Gear to Camshaft.
MB# 006888 004002
Chain Tensioner, timing chain
MB# 617 050 02 11
Spring, timing chain tensioner
MB# 617 050 02 11
Wastegate Hose
MB# 000 098 07 83
Bearing, intermediate shaft, (injection pump drive).
MB# 617 052 01 06
Bushing, timing chain idler sprocket.
MB# 127 052 00 50
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 05-23-2011
Great Info!
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - MacDoe - 01-30-2012
Hello, so...Did you find the mls head gasket? If you do some studs and require a quota to fill can l put my name down for a set of the CapAm studs and bolts, too if possible? If the studs are better and cheaper than the bolts then there could easily be a market for them.... on here they would be ideal with the boost upgrades people on here are using. How does the stock headgaskets do with the added boost? It seems from what I have read the headgasket is rare to fail. Is that true? I just discovered my headgasket is blown on our daily driver. We have in the past and most recently before the failure of this head gasket operated at fairly extreme temperatures (cold). I also wonder if the studs option would be good in the extreme cold temperatures? ( expansion/contraction) I wonder what the specs are in regards to how much you can plane the head to maybe make up some of the difference in headgasket thickness between the stock headgasket and the MLS cometic headgasket? It can't be much of a difference ...can it? Thanks.
RE: Hi-Po Engine Rebuilding Parts & Pieces - Captain America - 02-01-2012
I did not look into the gasket further and I no longer work for the company that manufactures the studs. Head gaskets seem to hold but if they are meant to go, then they will and there is nothing you can do about it. Just depends on what the MLS gasket thickness would be..